Help me understand (zero turn -vs- tractor)

[4570Man]

Wow 500 dollars. what model is it. I'm amazed you could get a product like that for $500. For $500 you can't even get 2 new rear wheels and 2 new rear tires

It’s a 428D which is a midmount not a front mount. $500 is way less than market value. I was at a TWRA owned gun range and saw the grasshopper behind the shop with 2 foot tall grass around it. I found the guy in charge and asked about it. He said he was going to sell it to a dealership for $500 but you can have it for $500. The grasshopper had been in service about 10 years and they bought a new Hustler. The deck doesn’t handle hills as well as my small deck but it does pretty good. The deck has a lot of overhang and it’s possible to mow between most things that are narrower than it is. I mow 2 big yards with several acres and the time savings is considerable. It’s every bit of 50 percent faster than my Dixie chopper or MMM. And the fuel bill is less than the Dixie chopper.

 

[BoylermanCT]

If you have the money, get both the ZTR and a tractor. If you can only afford one, get the tractor. I have both, and my neighbor mows his lawn with a Kubota tractor. He is almost as fast as my ZTR, so he mows almost as fast as I do on the ZTR. I would prefer to put the hours mowing on a ZTR as it was much cheaper than my tractor. Don't worry about lawn damage with a ZTR. You will create bald spots to begin with, but after a few hours you will get the hang of it and learn how to turn without damaging the lawn.

Another reason to have both - I was mowing my trail behind my pond today and got stuck in a wet spot in the trail. Had to use the tractor to get the ZTR unstuck. I used my FEL with forks to get under the ZTR tires and simply picked up the ZTR and carried it home!

 

[4570Man]

I’m betting if you bought a new tractor without the MMM the savings would be close to enough to buy a used ZTR. Plan B buy s cheap finish mower that you can use until you save up enough money for the mower and sell the finish mower then. Plan C buy a used tractor and ZTR. The problem for plan C is it requires having the money since your options for financing aren’t as good.

 

[dragoneggs]

After reading through all of the responses and going back to read the OP first post, here are my thoughts. First of all I have a BX tractor with backhoe and no mower, a Zero Turn mower, and a traditional garden tractor/mower with no other attachments other than a small dump trailer (this unit at the time of my tractor and z-turn purchase) was at my rental property so I didn't have access. I decided up front that I wanted a separate mower because some of my property was untamed/rugged and ground clearance would be an issue if I wasn't going to remove my MMM. First, I bought the tractor and as I put in more grass/lawn I upgraded from a push to a z-turn mower. Sounds like your past the push mower phase.

In your case, I think it depends on how much additional taming, landscaping, digging, spreading, etc. that you personally plan to do. If a lot, then a SCUT and maybe a MMM makes sense. If it will almost be always mowing, I would go for the Z turn. It is much faster and more pleasurable and I think a better mow. You can always rent or hire out a SCUT for the less than occasional work beyond mowing to get things to that condition. If you see yourself continually doing projects/landscaping and increasing your area requiring maintenance, then both is the answer.

Two is the uncompromising answer and I couldn't be happier but if you plan to be mostly a mower, and not a DIYer then maybe only a Z turn. After mowing with my z turn, and now that my Garden tractor is back home, I only use it for hauling brush, bark, etc... no mowing. Lots of great input from others... just my :2cents:

 

[dougtrr2]

I would recommend neither. If this is a business location then hire it done and concentrate on the business. Your time has to be more valuable than that of someone mowing lawns. There is a book "In business for yourself" by Bruce Williams that has a lot of common sense advice on running a business. The issue of the owner of a business mowing lawns was one of the points he made. If you are doing it for "therapy" then go ahead. If it is to "save" money then you should read his book.

Doug in SW IA

 

[dodge man]

I’ll just add a couple thoughts. If you get a tractor, you will be surprised how often you use the end loader. I didn’t think I would use mine that much but half my tractor hours are using the end loader.

At least for me the mower deck isn’t in the way when using the FEL. I take it off during the winter because it does catch snow.

I don’t think my BX with a 60 inch deck mows great but it is good. If you want the perfect hard I think a quality zero turn is probably the way to go.

 

[LD1]

Both will do the job and do a nice cut. As others said, time will be saved with the ZTR.

Its clear there are some on here who are ZTR haters. But once you mow with one, you will wonder why you ever mowed with anything else.

And I agree, we need to kow where you live. Just how much snowfall do you plan on getting? Is this a few 2" events per year? or several 10" storms per year? Because it makes a big difference in equipment selection, size, blower vs plow, etc. And of all the stuff you can use to remove snow, a front end loader is about the worst. Better than a shovel, but thats about it.

Now when it comes to mowing, You need a much larger mower on a tractor to even compete with a ZTR for speed. ZTR's are designed to mow....thats it. And they are very good at it.

I have a 60" scag and mow at 8-9MPH and leave a stellar cut. I mow 4.5 acres, with ~30 trees, two gardens, shop, house, and a pond to mow around. takes me ~1.5hrs to mow.

Just for kicks, I took my MX5100 with 8' twin spindle mower and set it down to 4" like I mow my lawn. Now this is a HST tractor, so I can make turns and maneuvers pretty quick, and I mow medium range full speed ~7 mph. So you would think 7mph with an 8' mower would be quicker than 5' mower at 8-9 mph right....
Wrong, took about 15 minutes longer and that wasnt even worried about getting real close to anything. Just hogging it out.

Now with a ~25hp compact tractor and 60" MMM, I would expect to only get ~5-6MPH tops. Slower and much smaller than my MX / 8'. So if I was a betting man, I'd say a a 25HP compact / 60" MMM combo would be every bit of 3 hrs mowing my 4.5 acres. VS my 5' ZTR at 1.5hrs.

Tears in the yard on a turn.......yea if you are an idiot and actually do a "zero turn". You need to do a 3-point turn (K turn).

ZTR's not good on side hills.....another fallacy. I mow my pond bank which is 20-25 degree slopes without any issues at all. Very little risk of rollover too on a ZTR. They are so low and wide that sliding is much more likely than rolling.

So as to what to get....I cannot answer that for you. IF you are dead set on only getting one piece of equipment, you have to decide if taking 2 hrs to mow 3 acres as opposed to 1 hr to mow 3 acres is worth it to get a loader and versatility of a "tractor"

 

[PA hayseed]

MY woods mowing machine (zero turn) can have a broom attachment, cab, chains, dozer blade,snow blower, etc, it can tow a cart. There is no competition in cutting grass with my zero turn and my 7' RFM on my tractor. the zero turn beats the snot out of the tractor. It is fast. I hardly use my tractor for cutting grass anymore, it is faster to cut 9 acres with the ztr. It is a diesel engine and was not cheap. The attachments are kinda pricey too. If the field gets too high then the tractor wins with the rear discharge finish mower as the zero turn bogs down a little too much and I have to slow down or raise the deck and cut twice.

 

[gtstricky]

Thanks everyone for your thoughts. Lots of great suggestions. I am thinking both is the best answer
I will start shopping for a good used ZTR and that will buy me some time while I find a tractor that will fit my needs.

 

[atomchaser]

I started out with a BX tractor and MMM mower. It did fine mowing and other tasks but mower often got in the way of other tasks (most due to ground clearance) and was a pain to get on and off. It was also about a $3K option on the tractor, IIRC. For that money, you can get a used commercial ZTR or a decent homeowner ZTR. I have a ZTR and a tractor now and it is much more efficient set up for me.

 

[AxleHub]

Greetings ld1,

As part of your post you stated this Paragraph:

"ZTR's not good on side hills.....another fallacy. I mow my pond bank which is 20-25 degree slopes without any issues at all. Very little risk of rollover too on a ZTR. They are so low and wide that sliding is much more likely than rolling."

You must give everyone the name of your ZTr because it seems to do everything well.

From 2006 thru 2014 I attended each year the Minnesota State Fair specifically to see tractors and mowers and trailers from many many vendors and dealers. I'm told it's one of the largest in the country for such things and has been for many decades.

Anyway, often each brand represented had booths staffed with multiple dealers so the was very good knowledge of he brand. But pretty much universally during all those years and all those brands directly from the mouths of representing dealers. . . thy would tell me of the qualities and capabilities of their ZTr mowing equipment . . . Except when asking them about sidehill cutting and steep slopes, they always recommended other products in this lineup because "swivel wheels" don't steer . . . They are "driven or pushed" in directions by rear wheels used to overcoming each other to force direction.

And for that reason front swivel wheels were not held in place by the operator creating issues with sidehills and slopes. Different brands and many dealers all said for those purposes you needed a steering wheel or method that actually held a steering direction instead of swivel wheels.

In addition the other concern is that virtually all ZTr units are heavy in the back and light in the front making them very much an issue for tip over when going up hills. Some front deck products are much better in that regard than the majority

I own an exception to the rules . . . Known as a ZTt (zero turn tractor) . It is a zero turn unit that looks like a garden tractor but acts like a Billy goat for traction on sidehills and steep slopes and does directly control the front wheels.

 

[4570Man]

Some ZTRs hold a hill better than others my grasshopper is a hill mowing beast. I’d guess it it would do even better with some bar tires. There’s no way a compact tractor or a garden tractor could compete with it unless you like mowing on its side. My Dixie chopper is probably comparable to a regular garden tractor on hills. I’ve climbed some pretty bad hills and the front of my zero turn has never picked up. My Dixie chopper with bar tires will out mud a 2wd garden tractor. BTW I have a B7200 with a finish mower and a MMM. It goes in mud a lot better and can lift the finish mower higher off the ground so I use it for rough mowing. And the B7200 is tough as nails. It’ll take pretty much any level of abuse. Aside from that it stays in the barn while my ZTRs do the mowing.

 

[dragoneggs]

Speaking of Zero turns and tearing up grass... A tip (probably obvious)mow like a Zamboni on an ice rink... down one side along the edge and split the difference by returning in the middle and do successive loops working to the other edge.

On side hills I don't do well as I hoped. I need to make up/down passes with a quick pivot at the top where it is steep. I know there are better Z beasts for this but I couldn't justify the cost.

 

[MESSMAKER]

Greetings ld1,

As part of your post you stated this Paragraph:

"ZTR's not good on side hills.....another fallacy. I mow my pond bank which is 20-25 degree slopes without any issues at all. Very little risk of rollover too on a ZTR. They are so low and wide that sliding is much more likely than rolling."

You must give everyone the name of your ZTr because it seems to do everything well.

From 2006 thru 2014 I attended each year the Minnesota State Fair specifically to see tractors and mowers and trailers from many many vendors and dealers. I'm told it's one of the largest in the country for such things and has been for many decades.

Anyway, often each brand represented had booths staffed with multiple dealers so the was very good knowledge of he brand. But pretty much universally during all those years and all those brands directly from the mouths of representing dealers. . . thy would tell me of the qualities and capabilities of their ZTr mowing equipment . . . Except when asking them about sidehill cutting and steep slopes, they always recommended other products in this lineup because "swivel wheels" don't steer . . . They are "driven or pushed" in directions by rear wheels used to overcoming each other to force direction.

And for that reason front swivel wheels were not held in place by the operator creating issues with sidehills and slopes. Different brands and many dealers all said for those purposes you needed a steering wheel or method that actually held a steering direction instead of swivel wheels.

In addition the other concern is that virtually all ZTr units are heavy in the back and light in the front making them very much an issue for tip over when going up hills. Some front deck products are much better in that regard than the majority

I own an exception to the rules . . . Known as a ZTt (zero turn tractor) . It is a zero turn unit that looks like a garden tractor but acts like a Billy goat for traction on sidehills and steep slopes and does directly control the front wheels.

Flipping a ZTR is nearly impossible. The weight is toward the rear so flipping forward would require you dropping the entire front end in a ditch while going downhill at speed. Zero turns extend the rear of the unit backwards from wheels so if the front end comes up, the overhang will hit the ground acting as a "wheelie bar". Hustler actually puts wheels on the overhang, just in case.

 

[D2Cat]

This mower does just fine on slopes.

 

[LD1]

Mine is a scag wildcat with AT101 tires.

Used to have a JD240 garden tractor....beyond about 15 degree slope it took enough weight off the uphill tire that it would just spin and go nowhere. Typical of a rider.

Tractor, gets a bit dicey going around the pond at the 20-25 degree area. Gotta use caution and know what you are doing, like no sudden uphill turns.

The ZTR, can fly around the pond at speed with no problems. Only issues is if the grass is wet or damp....sometimes it will slide down the hill.

A good wide commercial grade ZTR has no issues side-hilling within reason. IF you are on a slope that it wont side hill.....you are probably looking at a dedicated hillside mower.

 

[atomchaser]

I was concerned about getting a ZTR due to one part of my yard having a pretty steep slope. It really hasn't been an issue. A couple things I've learned: Don't mow the grass on the hill if it is at all wet, go slow and avoid making turns on the hill.

 

[dragoneggs]

I think in my case with only a 42in Z turn and turfs, I just can't do what some of you are doing on side hills. I also think I might add some weight up front as I have an area that is only accessible by going up a steep slope and even with leaning forward, my front wheels come off the ground The way back down can be an adventure as well when the grass is damp.

 

[4570Man]

This mower does just fine on slopes.View attachment 556672

Those things are probably in the range of real slope mowers. I’d bet money on a compact tractor, lawn tractor, and especially a sub compact tractor being on its side before the front mount Grasshopper gives up. In like to trade my F series Kubota for one of those. If anyone was wondering I have a lot of mowers.

 

[4570Man]

I mowed this ditch with my Dixie chopper and bar tires. My riding mower would have been stuck. My B7200 would have done it as well. I also mowed this with the Dixie chopper.