HELP !!!!! Major Problems with Kioti DK45S

[Hendersoncm]

Bearclaw

Think about it this way your working in an area where there are walls with staff moving around construction material and a tractor is being operator in relatively close proximity such as preparing a site to pour concrete. ( Believe it or not this actually takes place all over the planet.) The operator of the tractor is moving in a low gear having confidence in his tractor as he should and all of a sudden it goes full throttle headed for your staff to pin them against the wall and possibly cut them in half. Now do you get the picture!!! Can you smell what I am cooking!!! Sometimes people don't have time to respond that quickly. When trying to move it from the site with everyone out of the way the clutch started fading and would no longer engage.

Thats It!!!

 

[laurencen]

curious, did you say the only way to shut it down was to put it in high gear and stall it, is the fading due to the high rpm and clutch slip when stalling, if it fades how can it stall, the CK20 has a fuel cutoff knob, can one be added to yours, all tractors have one at least all I have used, even my 644 Deer loader has a pull shutoff, on my skidsteer the fuel shutoff is a solonoid and the shutoff is spring pressure, find it difficult to believe fuel pressure would hold it open

 

[Highbeam]

No fuel shutoff knob on my CK30. Key only which sends and stops power to a solenoid on the pump to cut fuel. There is a means on the pump to add an aftermaket fuel shutoff knob however.

So now it sounds like the guy was poking along operating carefully in a tight environment when all of the sudden, out of the blue, on a gear tractor, the throttle went to 100%. I could understand how that has high danger potential. In a wide open field there would be plenty of time to react.

 

[laurencen]

It is easy to say, "push in the clutch" "press hard on the brake" "move shifter to neutral" but things happen faster some times than our brains can resolve, simply said how many times have we said "that was stupid", I for one think a fuel cut off should be standard

 

[Trac-Tech]

Hi Guys
For the benefit of you who are not sure how all this works, I'll try to explain it in laymans terms as best I can for you all.
In an in-line injection pump like is fitted to the these tractors, the rack is a rod with teeth cut into the side of it, when you operate the throttle, the governor and control linkage from the throttle act on the rack pushing it back and forth in the engine. As mentioned in earlier remarks, this rack then acts on the elements in the injection pump which also have teeth cut into them. So basically you are turning lineal motion into radial motion.
Push the rack in one direction and you turn the elements to open the fuel and push it in the oposite direction, the rack will cut the fuel down (more revs or less revs).
By the sounds of what has been said here, a tooth has broken on the rack which in turn has jammed the rack in the high rev range. Now to shut the engine off, the stop control both manual and electric act on the rack to push it to low-no fuel position. Because the rack has been jammed on the high side, no amount of pushing or pulling on the rack will move it to the fuel off position. In most cases (but not all) of in line pumps with a rack system like this, they are spring loaded to no fuel (stop position).
So hence the inability to shut the engine down. Even if the engine were fitted with manual shut off, the same would apply.
After this, the only way to stop the engine will be to stall the engine with a high gear, brakes and clutch. Taking into account that the engines produced today are designed to have high torque low down in the rev range, this may explain why the clutch may not be feeling the best any more.
As "Laurencen" correctly mentioned, in a closed enviroment, the reaction times need to be faster, even in low gears, especially when it happens in a split second, maybe high revs in low gear to move close to a wall and then the engine doesn't come back off high idle as you expect.
For a comparison, check the reaction time on the open road in your car when a hazard is identified??? I think you will all be surprized just how long it takes and how far you actually travel before you apply the brakes???
I hope this is of help to you all to understand a little more of what may have happened here. The main thing to remember and learn from all of this is to be very careful when working around machinery and be aware of your surroundings.
Sorry if this is long wided or if I sound like I am preaching.

 

[wallace]

The whole thing that gets me is if your are having a major problem like this, why would you continue to use it.
The clutch should not have faded 1 or 2 times of stalling, several times of stalling I can see.
All I know is if I was in a closed in area and had this kind of issue I would not be continuing to use it until it was fixed.

My biggest problem with the thread is the fact they he is claiming that this is a major defect in a product.
And we should be alerting everyone.
I sorry but I have over 30 of these models out in the feild and have yet to have the same problem.

I understand what has happened a I am not discounting it but I really belieave that it is a isolated issue.

As far as tractors having a manual fuel cut off I am all for it....
But I checked some other brands of tractors on my lot new and used and they have no manual cut offs.
Seems like the industry is going electrical.

 

[coasterez]

I know nothing about diesel engines. But, why doesn't turning the key off prevent spark for ignition?

 

[Trac-Tech]

Hi Guys
Wallace, I agree that it is not a major problem and it appears that some one got a good fright at the time and hence hipe all through this thread. Without having seeing where the tractor was working, it probably should have been fixed where it was as you say, but whos to know that it may have had to be moved off the sight for work to continue.
The reason for my long winded explanation was to try to calm some of the comments here. Is the tractor actually back up and running yet?
I'm all for the second option as well, but as you say it seems the manufacturers are all going for electric shut off.
Coasterez
A diesel engine does not have electric spark ignition, the ignition is produced by compressing fuel and air and hence while there is fuel going in, there will in most cases also be air going in as well and hence fuel + air + compression = ignition. I hope that helps.

 

[450EXC]

Coasterez,

Well, since you'r a good guy we'll let you slide on this one. There could be all sorts of engineer jokes flying here, the temptation is almost unbearable.

Diesel engines have no spark plugs. Compression of the fuel ignites the combustion.

I love the funny looks on my friends faces when I ask them to help me change the plugs on my tractor.

Edit: Whoops, Tractech beat me to it - He's always so serious.

 

[Trac-Tech]

Hi 450EXC, Sorry if I sound too serious, I'll try to lighten up a little.
Does the smiley face help????

 

[450EXC]

I was just kidding. Stay serious - I need the tech help.

 

[Trac-Tech]

Point taken though, I will try hard to lighten up a little.
Any time I can be of help, just sing out and I will do my best to give you factual info rather than guess work.
Cheers

 

[Highgear]

Hey Highbeam : Are you sure you don't have a safety shutoff knob ? Our CK30 has one ,I just tried it the other day to see if it worked .

 

[gravel13]

I didn't think the CK 30 or 25 had the shutoff knob. Highgear what year is your CK30? Could you take a pic of the dash where it is located. My CK25 is a 2005 and I'm almost certain that I don't have a fuel shutoff, though one sure would be nice.

 

[Highgear]

Ours is an early model ser # 00092 . Should be at your right knee . Checking on the Kioti web site , for both CK25 and CK 30 , look under Specification . scroll down under standard equip. - Emergancy engine stop knob .

 

[HODAK]

My CK 30 has the shut-off knob.

As far as the "major problem" with the DK45's. That may have been a little premature to make a statement like that. Dangerous situation? Certainly sounds like it, but so far it sounds like an isolated incident. We all know what happens when there is a widespread problem on TBN no matter what the brand.

 

[Highbeam]

Nope, it's not there. There is a nice little black rubber plug where one could go though. Just like up near the throttle where I believe a horn button could go. I've spent a lot of time on the machine and while I haven't needed it I wouldn't mind having one there.

 

[BTI]

Sort of off the subject but along the same lines......
If a diesel engine gets "fuel" into it's airstream while running it is very hard to shut down and it will rev very high.
The only way is to shut off it's source of air.

Now this fuel can be alot of things, a turbo seal leaking oil into the airstream
(I know this engine isn't turbo'd) an over-oiled "reusable air filter" etc.

The point I'm making is that ANY diesel engine can have the same thing happen, a run off, but you hardly ever see it in an owners manual.

If I called some of my customers and told them something like that they wouldn't ever drive a tractor again....any tractor.

It is a very small amount of tractors that this happens to.
It would be like seeing in a car owners manual....
"If throttle return spring breaks car may run over people"
Whatever brand put that in the manual, after the fact became well known wouldn't sell many cars.
We are all driving vehicles and equipment that can be very dangerous.
IF nothing breaks, let alone if something malfunctions.

BTI

 

[TractorLegend]

I have to lube the throttle arm often on my CK30HST or the throttle will stick up above a grand on idle- that may be the cause? I would also like a horn on my tractor...or maybe that bumper sticker "horn broke, watch for finger"

 

[viking65]

If this turns out to be a widespread problem Kiota surely will take care of it promptly. I bet they learned a lesson from the way they handled all the cracking FEL's.