Haying small fields with a small tractor

[zzvyb6]

I ran a NH 479 mower, NH55 rake and a JD 14T baler with a 22 hp Yanmar. It didn't even have live power. Let the clutch in and we're balin' No problem. No triple rake windrows, but never a concern, didn't even touch the governor. Hitch weight only a concern on the mower, so that's why somebody invented front weights. The 14T's were offered with a 16HP Wisconsin motor on the plunger case. Why is everyone such an expert on something they've never tried or done ? I now have a 35 hp Deere and it even carries a full load on a NH1012 Stack wagon. Single bale unload makes it all smooth.

 

[big bubba]

My wife and I have a few neighbors that are willing to let us hay their fields for free, and we would love to save the money and do it ourselves. The fields are about 5 acres. Would my 24hp 4x4 New Holland be up for the challenge, or should we wait a few years till we can afford a bigger tractor? I found a few good deals on small bailers, and would love to jump on one. I know it would be ideal to have about 35-40hp, but I figured it's worth asking.

Regards,

you didn't mention your own hay needs, if so sorry i missed it. what are your needs & how many bales? what are you buying now in today's market? jumping into the hay business can get pricey real fast. plus the uncertain climate, etc... also calculate how many yrs the "savings" from cutting your own hay will pay off the hay equip investment

if your needs are modest, imho keep buying your hay without encumbering yourself w/hay equip costs. good luick

 

[Mike_in_Missouri]

I ran a NH 479 mower, NH55 rake and a JD 14T baler with a 22 hp Yanmar. It didn't even have live power. Let the clutch in and we're balin' No problem. No triple rake windrows, but never a concern, didn't even touch the governor. Hitch weight only a concern on the mower, so that's why somebody invented front weights. The 14T's were offered with a 16HP Wisconsin motor on the plunger case. Why is everyone such an expert on something they've never tried or done ? I now have a 35 hp Deere and it even carries a full load on a NH1012 Stack wagon. Single bale unload makes it all smooth.

When? How long ago?

I am new to this game. So you're saying dealers/the industry is telling people we have to upsize when that's not really true? (My farm is hilly, so I *do* need a weightier machine).

 

[bmaverick]

My wife and I have a few neighbors that are willing to let us hay their fields for free, and we would love to save the money and do it ourselves. The fields are about 5 acres. Would my 24hp 4x4 New Holland be up for the challenge, or should we wait a few years till we can afford a bigger tractor? I found a few good deals on small bailers, and would love to jump on one. I know it would be ideal to have about 35-40hp, but I figured it's worth asking.

Regards,

Chris

Chris,
My YM2610 31Hp Engine, 26Hp PTO can SQ bale just fine. It's about the same like the JD1025R Sub-Compact,

Kubota 25Hp can do it too.

With a Ford 1000 Series Shibarua sub compact 20Hp.

 

[bmaverick]

A gasser 22Hp Ford 8N 2WD compact tractor does it all.

 

[bmaverick]

My wife and I have a few neighbors that are willing to let us hay their fields for free, and we would love to save the money and do it ourselves. The fields are about 5 acres. Would my 24hp 4x4 New Holland be up for the challenge, or should we wait a few years till we can afford a bigger tractor? I found a few good deals on small bailers, and would love to jump on one. I know it would be ideal to have about 35-40hp, but I figured it's worth asking.

Regards,

Chris

A compact NH SQ baling just fine.

 

[zzvyb6]

When? How long ago?

I am new to this game. So you're saying dealers/the industry is telling people we have to upsize when that's not really true? (My farm is hilly, so I *do* need a weightier machine).

Couple of things: You probably won't be buying the newest and latest equipment. So, sickle mower (1-armed bandit), bar rake used, and an old auction candidate baler, no kicker or thrower and no wagons behind. My mower is a haybine (Hay + combine). Not only does it cut the hay but it 'conditions' it by passing it through a pair of crusher rolls. It has a reel out front to comb the approaching hay uniformly into the cutter. It then also has the ability to windrow the hay, good for several reasons: The ground will dry in each side of the windrow, which then can be side raked and flipped to get faster drying time. If you have GREAT weather, you can bale this windrow without the need to rake it. This mower needs a hydraulic supply, though, for header lift and the tongue swing. Tongue swing is not just for getting thru 10' gates, it allows you to differentially alter the cutting path to avoid fence posts, stones, whatever. The header lift is mandatory not just for turning around but to have the cutter self clean if it's picked up dirt or clumps. Raking, well its bar or wheel, or turnstyle/spinner. I have a bar rake and tow it on a dolly, I can rake with my golf cart. I also have a Kuhn tedder/rake combo. Throw a lever and adjust the wheels I can rake or fluff it. PITA to convert for several reasons, so I use it to fluff and the bar rake to windrow.
Baler is from the 50's JD 14T, a very popular baler these days for very small operators. Easy to fix, parts available because the common replaceables work on the new small square balers. Plastic twine works for me. The only issue I had was related to the driveline hookup. The short shaft from the braced driveshaft to the tractor MUST be centered over the hitch pin. This is because when you turn a sharp corner, the U-joints must be kept in phase. If the hitch pin is not in the center, the U-joint angles will be unequal and this will shudder & shake the crap out of the machine. I had to add a hole in my drawbar to get this to work.
Fact is, I'm working with a gal (who is on this forum), to get a NH bar rake, NH mower(s) (a 9-1/2' NH1465 and a 7' NH472) and a JD baler going right now. She has horses and dreams about providing her own horse food supply. She has a JD 4300 (30horse?) and it handles all the equipment just fine. Rear tires are loaded. Hitch is tight so no bucking. And she has 5 acres to do, just like yourself.
Now, the newer hay making machines are for real hay farms. thousands of bales. Takes time, maybe air conditioning, 3 or more hydraulic circuits, high weight for traction, big brakes, highway speeds, disc cutters and discbines, and all this takes much more power. Even big radiators. And these machines have many other heavy tasks. Snow plowing a driveway isn't one of them. Therefore, dealers go for the conservative HP estimates because you also get the weight and the features of a 65 hp tractor. They even look better IMHO. No teeny weeny tires, self leveling loader, battleship cab, lottsa levers, stereo, refrigerator, barbecue, keggerator, etc...

BTW: I have videos of my mowing and baling with my Deere in 2nd range. I could go faster but the fields are too bumpy.

 

[zzvyb6]

I'd add that either the best or the worst times of your marriage can come true with this. Either she'll be driving the tractor, YOU will be stacking the crunchy bales, and stashing them up in the loft and the dirtiest you have ever been. Or maybe the other way around. But you driving when baling ain't gunna work. And who's picking them up onto a cart, or a wagon, or the roof of your car ? If she's in the mow staking bales off the elevator, well, sweaty is sexy !

 

[Mike_in_Missouri]

Couple of things: You probably won't be buying the newest and latest equipment. So, sickle mower (1-armed bandit), bar rake used, and an old auction candidate baler, no kicker or thrower and no wagons behind. My mower is a haybine (Hay + combine). Not only does it cut the hay but it 'conditions' it by passing it through a pair of crusher rolls. It has a reel out front to comb the approaching hay uniformly into the cutter. It then also has the ability to windrow the hay, good for several reasons: The ground will dry in each side of the windrow, which then can be side raked and flipped to get faster drying time. If you have GREAT weather, you can bale this windrow without the need to rake it. This mower needs a hydraulic supply, though, for header lift and the tongue swing. Tongue swing is not just for getting thru 10' gates, it allows you to differentially alter the cutting path to avoid fence posts, stones, whatever. The header lift is mandatory not just for turning around but to have the cutter self clean if it's picked up dirt or clumps. Raking, well its bar or wheel, or turnstyle/spinner. I have a bar rake and tow it on a dolly, I can rake with my golf cart. I also have a Kuhn tedder/rake combo. Throw a lever and adjust the wheels I can rake or fluff it. PITA to convert for several reasons, so I use it to fluff and the bar rake to windrow.
Baler is from the 50's JD 14T, a very popular baler these days for very small operators. Easy to fix, parts available because the common replaceables work on the new small square balers. Plastic twine works for me. The only issue I had was related to the driveline hookup. The short shaft from the braced driveshaft to the tractor MUST be centered over the hitch pin. This is because when you turn a sharp corner, the U-joints must be kept in phase. If the hitch pin is not in the center, the U-joint angles will be unequal and this will shudder & shake the crap out of the machine. I had to add a hole in my drawbar to get this to work.
Fact is, I'm working with a gal (who is on this forum), to get a NH bar rake, NH mower(s) (a 9-1/2' NH1465 and a 7' NH472) and a JD baler going right now. She has horses and dreams about providing her own horse food supply. She has a JD 4300 (30horse?) and it handles all the equipment just fine. Rear tires are loaded. Hitch is tight so no bucking. And she has 5 acres to do, just like yourself.
Now, the newer hay making machines are for real hay farms. thousands of bales. Takes time, maybe air conditioning, 3 or more hydraulic circuits, high weight for traction, big brakes, highway speeds, disc cutters and discbines, and all this takes much more power. Even big radiators. And these machines have many other heavy tasks. Snow plowing a driveway isn't one of them. Therefore, dealers go for the conservative HP estimates because you also get the weight and the features of a 65 hp tractor. They even look better IMHO. No teeny weeny tires, self leveling loader, battleship cab, lottsa levers, stereo, refrigerator, barbecue, keggerator, etc...

BTW: I have videos of my mowing and baling with my Deere in 2nd range. I could go faster but the fields are too bumpy.

Thank you. You have a lot of equipment knowledge... Looking forward to continuing to learn here.

 

[Mike_in_Missouri]

I'd add that either the best or the worst times of your marriage can come true with this. Either she'll be driving the tractor, YOU will be stacking the crunchy bales, and stashing them up in the loft and the dirtiest you have ever been. Or maybe the other way around. But you driving when baling ain't gunna work. And who's picking them up onto a cart, or a wagon, or the roof of your car ? If she's in the mow staking bales off the elevator, well, sweaty is sexy !

She's preggers and getting pretty far along. Right now, farm chores are "all me".

 

[5030]

Always keep in mind that square bailers aren't power intensive, they have built in flywheels that keep the power constant with little input power (pto) from the tractor. Only issue you'll have is turning. the bailer will throw you around as the plunger cycles.

Round bailers are a different animal however.

 

[sandman2234]

I saw an interesting setup on youtube where they baled hay with two horses. Course they pulled a gas engine on a trailer, turning the baler, so in reality it isn't just 2 horsepower.
Didn't people use to bale hay with an Allis Chalmers B/C/CA?
David from jax

 

[big bubba]

question back to OP's initial post: in strictly economic terms, are you thinking your hay equipment investment in this project will be saving you money say within a 5 yr plan?

or are you looking for justification merely to acquire more equipment for a "hobby"? it's an important distinction. your initial post states you will be "saving"...please explain how on that count. good luck on the project, regards

 

[mwayne]

Here are a couple of videos that might help you make decisions:

 

[5030]

I saw an interesting setup on youtube where they baled hay with two horses. Course they pulled a gas engine on a trailer, turning the baler, so in reality it isn't just 2 horsepower.
Didn't people use to bale hay with an Allis Chalmers B/C/CA?
David from jax

Called a forecart and is real common with the Amish community

 

[mo1]

I'd add that either the best or the worst times of your marriage can come true with this. Either she'll be driving the tractor, YOU will be stacking the crunchy bales, and stashing them up in the loft and the dirtiest you have ever been. Or maybe the other way around. But you driving when baling ain't gunna work. And who's picking them up onto a cart, or a wagon, or the roof of your car ? If she's in the mow staking bales off the elevator, well, sweaty is sexy !

You can bale with one person if you use a thrower, bale basket, or accumulator. You can also do it with one person if you drop them and then come back with a stacker, stack wagon, or accumulator grapple. Using your wife to stack bales is almost certainly going to be a very poor idea unless the job is something like knocking bales off of a wagon for you to pick up and stack.

 

[zzvyb6]

Current equipment costs here n mid Michigan for getting your own hay produced.
Working JD 14T or 24T baler: $1500 to 2000.
Bar rake $600 - 1500
NH 472/474 or 479 haybine: $1500 - 2000.

"WE want to produce our own hay..." Sure glad I learned to read in first grade and made it thru the first time.

Current auction horse hay prices in my area: $5.00 - 13.50 as of last Saturday.

My baler runs 4 bales per minute, no shortage of customers. Do the math for the payoff. As a 1099 form, it's almost free hay after 2 years.

My Timex watch reports the exact same time as my neighbor's Rolex. Who buys $30k in hay equipment to feed a few horses ? Its the availability of fields with hay to harvest, an existing capable tractor, and sisu that gets the job done. Plus, if it's just too much to do 1 handed while performing your social networking multi-tasking, the machinery holds it's value and probably will appreciate.

 

[5030]

Who buys $30k in hay equipment to feed a few horses ?

Try 150 grand in equipment and no horses or stock at all and 150 is conservative. Of course everything I make is sold ahead of time. No hay in the barn for years now. Never will be either.

 

[5030]

My Timex watch reports the exact same time as my neighbor's Rolex.

I have both and yes the Timex tells the same time but the Rolex I have maintains it's value or even appreciates. The Timex on the other hand, once you buy it, becomes worthless.

 

[powerscol]

Its been a while so I thought I would update. I switched form the sickle mower to a PZ170 drum mower. Cuts better in the wind and does some conditioning. It does take longer as it is not as wide. I also now have a Kabota rotary rake - what an upgrade from the side roller. However I am now done with horses, so this is probably my last hay year and I will just flail the pastures or let someone else cut it. I am getting old and the fun is mostly gone.

So tips to look into . Depending on your state set up a personal LLC. In CO its easy (25$) I think with $10 year renewal. Then file a SCH F federal tax form and deprecate all of your equipment. You also get to deduct you fuel, parts, repairs, chemicals, fertilizer, seeds, etc. I used H&R tax software to set it up with a bit of help from thier help line. Once doe it easy as the tax software tracks things from year to year. You will find it is a huge help come tax time with the deductions. Basically I save enough in taxes to pay for the equipment the year I bought it. This is all above board and legal - Only once did I have to send the Feds/State additional information (receipts for major tractor repairs) I guess they the call that a mail audit. Once sent everything was fine . I only did between 250 and 500 bales (weed free custom grass horse hay) a year too, sometimes less. The year I got the question was a drought year where I maybe sold 50 bales, but the tractor needed a new fuel injection rack - ending with a huge farm loss on the tax form.

BTW - having an LLC limits (protects) your personal other property in case something goes wrong - at least in CO Be sure to consult with a legal person on this depending on where you live

Something to look into depending on your situation.