Haying small fields with a small tractor

[CDennyRun]

My wife and I have a few neighbors that are willing to let us hay their fields for free, and we would love to save the money and do it ourselves. The fields are about 5 acres. Would my 24hp 4x4 New Holland be up for the challenge, or should we wait a few years till we can afford a bigger tractor? I found a few good deals on small bailers, and would love to jump on one. I know it would be ideal to have about 35-40hp, but I figured it's worth asking.

Regards,

Chris

 

[BWfarms]

Each field is five acres or multiple fields equal five acres? Saving money and hay don't often have a common denominator unless... You understand the initial investment is a lot and the the cost of maintenance is a lot. Your power plant is not going to do the job.

Are you wishing to do square or round bales? How many head of 'whatever' are you feeding? What condition is the grass? Thin or lush? Full of weeds or high quality grass? I cannot make a fair assessment if it's beneficial or a waste of time, I need more information on what your goals to achieve.

I can give you a fair estimate of highly used hay equipment prices. A New Holland 472 haybine will do well assuming you are the wetter climate and need to dry faster $2000-3000. New Holland 256 rake goes from $850-3000 used. Your typical small square baler and there are a lot available can run $1500-4500 well used. Round balers have so much variance but $3000+. If you need a tedder, roughly $700-2000 for a double basket. Now these are older model equipment prices and all used equipment can vary greatly in price. Newer and better shape is obviously higher priced.

For square bale setup, no less than 35 pto hp tractor. For Round bale setup, no less than 50 pto hp tractor. Then you have the input costs. First and foremost is diesel and lubricants. Second is fertilizer at roughly 200#(roughly $70) per acre or as needed by soil sample. Twine is roughly $50 a set. Replacement parts is literally all over the map.

This is just a general guide. So calculate the number of bales you buy a year versus adding up the inputs and estimated pay off. If you are doing 5 acres total, forget about it. If you're doing 20 acres, you may see a return eventually. I don't like to add tractor into a hay operation cost unless it's strictly 100% for haying. Simply the tractor pays off everywhere else on the farm. I would estimate an average of $7000 to start up haying excluding tractor and fuel/lube/fertilizer inputs.

 

[BWfarms]

The tractor will probably do a wheelie with the weight of a baler on the hitch.

 

[cat fever]

I started doing my own hay this year. I had no equipment. This is where I'm at now;
RX6620PS/cab with land pride scrapper and disc harrow as a package deal. (all new) $40,500
New Holland 316 bailer (used) $4000. Replaced the twine knives before season, no problems worked great.
New Holland 9' 488 haybine. (used) $2000. Replaced all the guards and lots of blades for about $250ish. Worked great no issues.
11' spring tooth harrow. Not sure of brand. $1500 was restored before I bought it.
I could have bought a used tractor but well uh I didn't want someone else's. I still need a v-rake ($1200) which I will have before next season and I need a drill seeder. (cost ??? still looking)
As you can see it's not cheap, but I have enjoyed doing it. In retirement it will give me reason to get up.
As BWfarms said; you need a bigger tractor.
O, and throw in about 15 grand ish for a new 45'X72' pole barn I will build myself this fall to keep all the equipment in.

 

[newbury]

And another few grand for a trailer.

 

[Ed of all trades]

I don't want to discourage you because putting up hay can be a very rewarding hobby. Just remember hobbies cost money and you need to know how to do it. When is the hay ready to cut, when is it ready to rake, when is it ready to bale? When should I just work up the field and replant? When should I plant clover to a field? When will a little fertilizer do the job? What time of wear should I apply the fertilizer? What do I do when the hay gets rained on? laying flat? when raked? in the bale? These are a few of the questions you will have to find answers to if you want to make quality hay. Any fool can make junk hay but who wants junk hay. Making hay is a complicated thing and you have to balance it with rain, Should I cut today or wait and risk it getting to old, and if you do this you will get hay rained on. Again I don't want to discourage you but I don't want you to go into this thinking it is simple and easy. It is not. I have put up a lot of hay and I know how it is but I would still like to Go out and put up 20 or so ac just for the fun of it. Think about what you are doing, plan and do it for the fun of it or don't do it. you will be very blessed if you break even you will not make money at that size. And yes you need a "new tractor", some of the old ones will work fine, just get a little mire than you think you have to have. I put up a lot of square bales with a 35 hp tractor, but it was not really big enough and if you don't have a lot of experience it can hurt you on a hill ect. Ed

 

[Egon]

Twenty four HP no problem for cutting and raking.(sickle bar mower)

Baler, how small? There are mini balers but those may be hard to come by.

Use hay fork on loader and stack on low trailer to move? This might work better than you think. Especially if you have covered storage.

Check out the pre 1950's haying methods.

 

[flusher]

My wife and I have a few neighbors that are willing to let us hay their fields for free, and we would love to save the money and do it ourselves. The fields are about 5 acres. Would my 24hp 4x4 New Holland be up for the challenge, or should we wait a few years till we can afford a bigger tractor? I found a few good deals on small bailers, and would love to jump on one. I know it would be ideal to have about 35-40hp, but I figured it's worth asking.

Regards,

Chris

With only 24 hp (engine) look for a baler that has an on-board engine so you don't have to run it from the tractor's pto. Small square balers (two twine, 50-60 lb bales, 14"x18"x40-50") with 18-25 hp Wisconsin engines are still around.

Google "balers with Wisconsin engines" to see what's out there.

Here's one example:

Viewing a thread - Freeman balers in the morning..

Good luck

 

[bjr]

I would have to agree 24 hp too small, I'm using a 35 hp "chinese" 4 wheel drive tractor and is probably the smallest for baling. I'm probably the king of small baling and I mean Small as some of my fields are 1/3 acre. Some I only get 5-6 bales off of. There is any one in the area that would fool with cutting raking and baling that minuscule amount. The people I do it for think it's Gold. Yes, This is my retirement equipment like the fellow above stated. My hay machinery is a Jinma JM354, a Hesston 4550 inline small square baler, a SFI 2555 drum mower , a Morra RM280/8 rotary rake, and cone style spin spreader. The whole show is roughly $20,000. Now, I've had start my field from scratch which meant spraying weeds, plowing discing and rototilling and planting and waiting till the following year for a crop, instant gratication it ain't. Now, if you ever go and "try to sell" any hay be sure to have a answer for the folks that want to know if "is it horse hay?" I'm not selling hay anymore. bjr

 

[rankrank1]

Keep in mind you are only saving money if you can sell the equipment you buy at some point plus the true value of the hay you used is less than what you would have you paid had you just bought hay to start with then you have saved money. And you need to compare apples to apples. In other words top quality hay brings premium pricing while fields people usually give you for free do not so when you use the pencil compare equal product.

That all said you can likely bale with your little tractor (if you pick the right baler). A New Holland 65 compact would be my baler of choice. I run one with my Kubota L285 compact tractor (26.4 max PTO hp) but closer to 23 hp with the throttle set for 540 PTO rpm. My baler is a 1960 model so it is 55 years old. All my other equipment is antiquated cheap junk. You will need to drop them on the ground with a small tractor. That all said, I like doing the hay (been doing it since 2008), but I have yet to make the first dollar and I literally have peanuts invested in all my equipment and the tractor too for that matter.

You will read stories on here of guys with $25k tractors, $10k balers, $10K cutters, new trailers, grapples, etc. then going out baling a measly few acres of weed fields and they will try to convince you they making money. It is not going to happen. You can not outrun depreciation on the equipment, interest you may be paying on a loan, or interest you are also losing on an investment if you pull cash from investment by baling a few acres of weed hay using expensive equipment.
Try to cover massive amounts of acreage with your little tractor and it will likely then not hold up as it is not really the proper tool for that job.

Big time farmers can justify that modern expensive equipment but they going to have to cover the acres with it to make it pay. A small timer is going to have to buy old, cheap, low hp stuff, plus do it the 1950's manual way to have any hopes of making money on a small time hay operation. Regardless you will be working for free and tinkering on the old stuff quite a bit to make it functional and you will do well to break even. If you like that sort of thing (I do for for some masochistic reason) then it certainly can be mentally rewarding but not really financially rewarding.

Your money would be much better off in an investment portfolio....

 

[newbury]

My wife and I have a few neighbors that are willing to let us hay their fields for free, and we would love to save the money and do it ourselves. The fields are about 5 acres. Would my 24hp 4x4 New Holland be up for the challenge, or should we wait a few years till we can afford a bigger tractor? I found a few good deals on small bailers, and would love to jump on one. I know it would be ideal to have about 35-40hp, but I figured it's worth asking.

Regards,

Chris

Since I have not seen much of the time and effort mentioned in the replies -
OP - Have you ever worked in or run a small bale hay operation in the area you plan on doing it? I'm not writing about taking 5 bales off a small field, I mean something bigger than what you are planning on doing.
I worked summers from about 1966 to 1969 and a large part of that was haying in Vermont. Definitely a muscle-building job. I could not imagine haying down here in Mississippi when both the heat and humidity approach 100. But a relative does, with a 100HP plus tractor w/ A/C, big round bales, plus hired help.

What are your wrenching skills? Will you be able to maintain and improve used equipment?

If you have NOT hayed I suggest you hire yourself out for a week for the experience.

<snip> Now, if you ever go and "try to sell" any hay be sure to have a answer for the folks that want to know if "is it horse hay?" I'm not selling hay anymore. bjr

Response:"No it's not hay made from horses, it's hay made from timothy and clover"

 

[cat fever]

And another few grand for a trailer.

Ya, I forgot that one. I have a sixteen foot car hauler but it's not rated high enough for my tractor with the loader on.

CDennyrun,
Here's the reason I got into this. One, I had the land, but mainly and I'll try to be brief.
I have a very good high paying job, but at the end of the day there is no rewarding feeling from my job. When I plant and do all that is needed to grow hay, alfalfa, oats whatever.... there is a good feeling about it. I'm excited to see it grow and watch the equipment harvest whatever I'm growing. So the cost of the equipment is justified in that alone. I knew before I started and discussed with my wife how we will never recover the money spent. However, I can't put on price on feeling good about what I'm doing. So if it's not going to break your bank...I say go for it. I have no regrets.

This is the first bale I ever made from start to finish. It's an ugly little miss shaped bale, but it doesn't matter. It made me smile and I'm still smiling about it today. After figuring out the baler and speed and so on here are some other bales that look a lot better.

Make the decision that best suits you and your needs, there are plenty of growers on here that can help you along the way.

 

[Creamer]

I run a sickle bar mower and an old dump rake and I mow and rake the hay and then a guy who runs around the country comes in and bales my few acres in 10-15 minutes. My little 28 hp 1710 has plenty of power for doing it this way. I get good hay if I time it right and I do not have to try to keep a baler running. I bought the mower for $300 and stuck another $100 into it. The dump rake was free so I do not have much into it. I have it in 4x5 round bales that I move with my pallet forks on my 3 pt.

Still it is not cost effective if I included my labor but I like it. I grew up mowing and raking hay and I love the sound of the sickle clatter and have shown many people how a dump rake works because thy had never seen one run.

 

[hosspuller]

I grow and hay 10 acres of Orchard grass. Bought a complete set of hay equipment (NH 310 baler, NH 477 haybine, NH 256 rake, 2 basket tedder, & wagon) from from a guy leaving the hay business. Spent $7000. Use my Deere 45 Hp tractor . After fuel, herbicide, parts, lime, fertilizer ....

I don't make any profit. :duh: I grow hay and harvest tax deductions & exemptions.

 

[Ed of all trades]

Cat fever.
That is IMHO the only reason to do small scale hay if you can get out of it.

 

[CDennyRun]

Thank you everyone for all the responses! You guys are great. I expected to get laughed at. Ha ha. Your insight is very much appreciated!!!

I've worked in many hay fields as the grunt, worked at a feed store for a few years, and every year my wife and I move/stack about 250 bails for the year. As far as my wrenching skills go, fortunately it's what I do for a living (millwright). I have a lot of experience in engineering and fabricating from my 14 awesome years in the mechanical industry. I've never done any troubleshooting on a baler, however I think it would be a lot of fun figuring them out!

I'll definitely look into the baler with a motor. I've never seen one, so thanks for bringing that up! The mini baler might be a good option too.

Again, thank you all very much for the help. If I could buy you all a beer, I would!

Regards,

Chris

 

[Ed of all trades]

Just remember that when you work on the knoter that if one side is working compare it to the side that is not. That has saved me many times. Ed

 

[CDennyRun]

Thanks for the tip Ed!

 

[flusher]

Thank you everyone for all the responses! You guys are great. I expected to get laughed at. Ha ha. Your insight is very much appreciated!!!

I've worked in many hay fields as the grunt, worked at a feed store for a few years, and every year my wife and I move/stack about 250 bails for the year. As far as my wrenching skills go, fortunately it's what I do for a living (millwright). I have a lot of experience in engineering and fabricating from my 14 awesome years in the mechanical industry. I've never done any troubleshooting on a baler, however I think it would be a lot of fun figuring them out!

I'll definitely look into the baler with a motor. I've never seen one, so thanks for bringing that up! The mini baler might be a good option too.

Again, thank you all very much for the help. If I could buy you all a beer, I would!

Regards,

Chris

I think this has been mentioned earlier in this thread, but transporting your baler on public roads may turn out to be your biggest problem (assuming the fields you're baling are not together). The normal small square balers are pretty wide (8-9 ft) and even with a swing hitch on the baler to center the hitch tongue, you still have to be careful. When I bought my Massey Ferguson 124 baler about 8 years ago, the Seller was about 30 miles from my place. I towed it home behind my F150 on the back roads at slow speed (~25 mph) being careful not to drop the right baler wheel in the ditch.

Good luck.

 

[CDennyRun]

I think this has been mentioned earlier in this thread, but transporting your baler on public roads may turn out to be your biggest problem (assuming the fields you're baling are not together). The normal small square balers are pretty wide (8-9 ft) and even with a swing hitch on the baler to center the hitch tongue, you still have to be careful. When I bought my Massey Ferguson 124 baler about 8 years ago, the Seller was about 30 miles from my place. I towed it home behind my F150 on the back roads at slow speed (~25 mph) being careful not to drop the right baler wheel in the ditch.

Good luck.

Yup, they take up the whole lane. Around here you find a lot more downed mail boxes this time of year!