Have we been doing it wrong? High rpm's bad when not needed?

   / Have we been doing it wrong? High rpm's bad when not needed? #61  
I see Coleman's offers new substrate cannisters for sale but again, extinguishing the light fall to a dealer with the correct diagnosis tools, IOW the updated Diagmaster.
 
   / Have we been doing it wrong? High rpm's bad when not needed? #62  
I run older tractors mostly. I still do not use higher RPMs because among other things its the best way for a diesel engine to rip out a clutch under a load.....
Not gonna happen ever with a properly tensioned pressure plate but a mal adjusted clutch can certainly have the facings removed and will slip.
 
   / Have we been doing it wrong? High rpm's bad when not needed? #63  
The weakest link on your tractor by far is the transaxle (especially if its HST). Engines almost always exceed the life of the tranny.

High rpms do NOT hurt an engine at all but lowers the torque put on the engine and transaxle components. High torque is what wears and breaks tractors. So error toward higher rpms for longer tractor life.
I totally disagree with your comment for so many reasons it would take pages to list them. Suffice to say, you are dead wrong.
 
   / Have we been doing it wrong? High rpm's bad when not needed? #64  
I totally disagree with your comment for so many reasons it would take pages to list them. Suffice to say, you are dead wrong.
That's OK... we can disagree. My comments come from a 30 year career as a tractor engineer. I know what drives high strain on gaged machines (both in the field and lab tests), failure modes at end of life, and exactly how it all relates to warranty. It's also basic engineering:

Power = torque × rpm

As rpm goes up.... torque goes down as does wear and breakage. Best to error running a little faster for longest tractor life.
 
   / Have we been doing it wrong? High rpm's bad when not needed? #65  
That's OK... we can disagree. My comments come from a 30 year career as a tractor engineer. I know what drives high strain on gaged machines (both in the field and lab tests), failure modes at end of life, and exactly how it all relates to warranty. It's also basic engineering:

Power = torque × rpm

As rpm goes up.... torque goes down as does wear and breakage. Best to error running a little faster for longest tractor life.
Why you only have 104 posts to date. How could you possibly be right and 5030 with his 25,000+ posts be wrong?

Better prepare yourself for all the "pages" of reasons you are wrong!
 
   / Have we been doing it wrong? High rpm's bad when not needed? #66  
That's OK... we can disagree. My comments come from a 30 year career as a tractor engineer. I know what drives high strain on gaged machines (both in the field and lab tests), failure modes at end of life, and exactly how it all relates to warranty. It's also basic engineering:

Power = torque × rpm

As rpm goes up.... torque goes down as does wear and breakage. Best to error running a little faster for longest tractor life.
With over 60 years of running and repair tractors this is not the first time I have heard this and not the first time I have shrugged it off as bull.
It may be somewhat true on gas powered lawn tractors but I doubt it even there.
 
   / Have we been doing it wrong? High rpm's bad when not needed? #67  
Why you only have 104 posts to date. How could you possibly be right and 5030 with his 25,000+ posts be wrong?

Better prepare yourself for all the "pages" of reasons you are wrong!
???
 
   / Have we been doing it wrong? High rpm's bad when not needed? #68  
The weakest link on your tractor by far is the transaxle (especially if its HST). Engines almost always exceed the life of the tranny.

High rpms do NOT hurt an engine at all but lowers the torque put on the engine and transaxle components. High torque is what wears and breaks tractors. So error toward higher rpms for longer tractor life.
This is all pretty debatable. Another thread or two maybe
 
   / Have we been doing it wrong? High rpm's bad when not needed? #69  
As rpm goes up.... torque goes down as does wear and breakage.
Not necessarily.
Totally dependent on the load % put on the engine.
At, say, a full 100% load, the torque increases as rpm’s go up, until you cross the rpm of maximum torque. Only then, does torque start decreasing with increasing rpm’s as you stated.
 
   / Have we been doing it wrong? High rpm's bad when not needed? #70  
I own 2008 tractor, so it doesn’t have the ridiculous emissions junk on it, but I’m following this thread because I’m interested in anything ICE related.

One question I have for those unfortunate with the newer regen requirements…has anyone tracked diesel gallons between regenerations, instead of hours?
Running only required rpm’s uses less fuel. I’m guessing, even if the regeneration interval is shorter, I bet it’s at the same amount of fuel burned, or even less.
 
   / Have we been doing it wrong? High rpm's bad when not needed? #71  
Why not include the QUALITY of the fuel being used. I'm betting that has way more to do with emissions than RPMs. I'm sure it does with my tractor. I idle most of the time. I dont regen any more frequently than when I work the tractor hard.
 
   / Have we been doing it wrong? High rpm's bad when not needed? #72  
Ya beat me to it. I am also glad I do not own anything DEF and never probably will.
At this point in my life I probably won't either. Couple years ago I was looking at the new Kioti's at the county fair, wife was actually bugging me to replace mine...primarily because the newer ones have a lot more legroom and are much easier to get on/off of. I passed on it, partly because new tractors are expensive, and there's nothing really wrong with mine (other than the legroom issue). Had read a lot of complaints about regen here, but didn't really know what it was. Dealer explained it to me...he kind of downplayed its impact on day-to-day use. Not sure what to believe as far as regen goes...lots of those complaining about regen are the same ones who gripe about E10 gas too, and I've had very few issues with that.

Bottom line is, it's not a user serviceable item and the end user cannot reset the ECM either. If you keep the tractor long enough, you will have to have an authorized dealer perform the service.
Curiously, what would happen if you just let it slide? Is it like a car with a check engine light where you can still drive it just fine for the most part, or does ignoring it cause serious problems?
 
   / Have we been doing it wrong? High rpm's bad when not needed? #73  
Hey guys,
According to this video and John Deer, we should not be using high rpm's on our tractors IF it is not needed. Supposedly people saying it is better for the emissions controls or DOC filters etc. have it backwards. Watch part or all of this video, check out what Deer says and let me know your thoughts?
when i was a kid worked for a neighbor 1800 rpm , nothing more, he caught me i had the throttle pegged in a versatile 895, when he retired another neighbor bought it , stillgoing theres 13,000 hours on it , dont think much has been done to it
 
   / Have we been doing it wrong? High rpm's bad when not needed? #74  
Dealer explained it to me...he kind of downplayed its impact on day-to-day use. Not sure what to believe as far as regen goes..
Curiously, what would happen if you just let it slide? Is it like a car with a check engine light where you can still drive it just fine for the most part, or does ignoring it cause serious problems?

That's been my experience with regen on my Kubota that I've been using for 6 years now. I see the light come on in the dash indicating that regen is going on, and then 15 minutes later the light goes off again. I have to do absolutely nothing as the operator, just keep on doing whatever I was doing.

If you are talking about ignoring the regen warnings, from what I'm reading you'll do that only so long. Then the computer will shut the tractor down or put it into limp mode and the only remedy is to take it to the dealer.
 
   / Have we been doing it wrong? High rpm's bad when not needed? #75  
Why not include the QUALITY of the fuel being used. I'm betting that has way more to do with emissions than RPMs. I'm sure it does with my tractor. I idle most of the time. I dont regen any more frequently than when I work the tractor hard.
You have a point there. There’s studies showing that diesel engines tested lower soot emissions while running diesel fuels with a higher cetane value
 
   / Have we been doing it wrong? High rpm's bad when not needed? #76  
I always use a fuel treatment with cetane boost. I don't know when mine will regen. It's at 30 hours now. 🤔
 
   / Have we been doing it wrong? High rpm's bad when not needed? #77  
That's been my experience with regen on my Kubota that I've been using for 6 years now. I see the light come on in the dash indicating that regen is going on, and then 15 minutes later the light goes off again. I have to do absolutely nothing as the operator, just keep on doing whatever I was doing.

If you are talking about ignoring the regen warnings, from what I'm reading you'll do that only so long. Then the computer will shut the tractor down or put it into limp mode and the only remedy is to take it to the dealer.
Yep. My experience as well. I have never ignored regen events and just keep working.
 
   / Have we been doing it wrong? High rpm's bad when not needed? #78  
Not necessarily.
Totally dependent on the load % put on the engine.
At, say, a full 100% load, the torque increases as rpm’s go up, until you cross the rpm of maximum torque. Only then, does torque start decreasing with increasing rpm’s as you stated.
The OP is asking about throttle position and doing the least harm to his tractor.... there is nothing to debate. A job needs a set amount of power to achieve. The transaxle is the weakest link (drives the life goal of the tractor) and what everybody should be trying to protect. Higher rpms do no harm and lower the torque through the systems (engine included). Anybody who has pedaled a 10 speed bike should be able to grasp this concept. All I'm saying is error to high side of throttle.... easier on your tractor.
 
   / Have we been doing it wrong? High rpm's bad when not needed? #79  
The OP is asking about throttle position and doing the least harm to his tractor.... there is nothing to debate. A job needs a set amount of power to achieve. The transaxle is the weakest link (drives the life goal of the tractor) and what everybody should be trying to protect. Higher rpms do no harm and lower the torque through the systems (engine included). Anybody who has pedaled a 10 speed bike should be able to grasp this concept. All I'm saying is error to high side of throttle.... easier on your tractor.
You’re acting like you can predict all tractor designs and makes into a predetermined part lifespan, and that, you, or nobody can do.

Higher rpm’s than needed burns more fuel than needed. That’s a fact. Burning fuel is the primary source of engine wear.
Like I suggested.. start a thread on transaxles being the weakest link in all tractors, or a thread about tractors used at high rpm’s last longer.
I look forward to it
 
   / Have we been doing it wrong? High rpm's bad when not needed? #80  
Curiously, what would happen if you just let it slide? Is it like a car with a check engine light where you can still drive it just fine for the most part, or does ignoring it cause serious problems
If you let it 'slide', what will happen is when it fills up with burned ash (soot), the engine will either derate of the cannister will expand and push the front or rear sealing rings apart and then derate. Seen that happen on Class 8 big trucks many times and when it does, not only will the element have to be replaced because it cannot be cleaned as it's deformed plus the cannister and everything attached to it has to be replaced as well. In a big truck it's referred to as the 'one box' and the bare box itself is in the excess of 1500 bucks not including labor and it's not a warranty item either as it's considered abuse.
 

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