Box Scraper hauling logs

[Ken45101]

If you are implying that he lift one end with the fel and drag in reverse with the fel, that is not a good idea either

Please explain why.

Ken

 

[Cowboy Billy]

With limited time to skid logs get them cut and staged next to the trail while its wet then when it freezes all you have to do is haul. Also when my great uncles used to have work skidding they would pull a log crosswise behind them and it would pack the snow down and after a day or two in cold weather it would make the snow hard enough to haul on.

Coboy Billy, that old Farmall Cub looks real bad azz with the wide rears. :thumbsup:http://photos.cubfest.com/albums/userpics/10036/IMG_0557.JPG

What size are those rears - are they on the sock rims? Wouldn't mind having wider rears on mine...

Thanks Easygo

Thats a 1957 farmall 130 and one of my favorite tractors. But I do have a cub too.

Howdy Code54

Those are 14.9x24 rears and its on 15" rims but it would have worked better on 13" rims. I have another farmall 130 with 11.4x24 and a 100 with 12.4x24 on stock rears. The 12.4x24's seem to be the best for me. On a cub 9.4x24 is as large as you want to go.

That wagon was a old grain wagon I got for $100. I picked up a newer wagon for $300 and built racks for hauling logs but I had to use a bigger tractor while the 130 would haul it it just did not have enough weight and brakes to do so safely.

Billy

 

[LD1]

The reasons are many. I am sure it has been hashed out before.

Here is a list just for starters

1. Less traction in reverse
2. weight distribution is poorer. (lotsa weight up front, not so much in back)
3. 3PH hydraulics are stronger than loader hydraulics
4. With the log elevated in the front it is easy to tip forwatd
5. Loader isnt the strongest to pull from
6. when making turns and pulling from the FEL, you are putting EXTREME side forces on the FEL arms
7. Front axle isnt as strong as rear

ANd plain and simple fact, tractors are made to pull from the rear.

I am sure I missed a bunch.

 

[Barry 1]

I built a Bill Reeks sawmill,then I started logging,but there was NO way that I could pull 24-30"x18' logs up my steep hills with my JD1050.So I built a log arch trailer,somewhat like the one Bill Reeks built. Now I can back down the hill,over the log,pick the whole thing up,and climb my STEEEEP hills,with little problems.Then,I can back over my mill,and set the log right on it.

 

[piller]

The reasons are many. I am sure it has been hashed out before.

Here is a list just for starters

1. Less traction in reverse
2. weight distribution is poorer. (lotsa weight up front, not so much in back)
3. 3PH hydraulics are stronger than loader hydraulics
4. With the log elevated in the front it is easy to tip forwatd
5. Loader isnt the strongest to pull from
6. when making turns and pulling from the FEL, you are putting EXTREME side forces on the FEL arms
7. Front axle isnt as strong as rear

ANd plain and simple fact, tractors are made to pull from the rear.

I am sure I missed a bunch.

I've just moved several logs in the last few days using the FEL and a chain. Now, I'm not hauling 4000 lb logs three miles uphill backwards at 10 mph in rough terrain, just moving them short distances around a relatively flat area, and unloading them from a trailer. For me this is the quickest, easiest, and safest method. Chain up the log, lift the end with the FEL, drag it to where I want it, lower the FEL, remove the chain, move on the the next task.

The FEL is great for doing this stuff. Let's say you have a 16" diameter log that is 16 feet long and has a density of 50 lbs per cubic foot. That log will weigh about 1120 lbs. Pick up one end of the log and you are only lifting a little more than half of this, let's say 600 lbs, that's not a big deal. Put a counter weight on the back of the tractor and you are good to go. With one end raised off the ground the log is easy to pull, same as with an arch, so there is not much of a drag load.

 

[monheganview]

ramblings,

The 4 wheeled wagon put together by Cowboy Billy sure seems like a good rig.
chilly807 nailed it when he wrote "It sounds like you're in the same boat a lot of us are, you have a small scale wood harvesting job to do, and the easy way to do it (tractor and winch) is fairly expensive. The flip side is that the cheaper way to do it is harder on you labour wise, and may tear up the woods more."
I talked to the sawyer in Maine, and he says frozen ground is very good, but frozen with some snow is even better, as far a dealing with mud on the logs. A woodcutter friend who uses horses is suggesting I find a way to use a Farmi winch, maybe rent one, as they sure make twitching out the logs a lot easier.

Recalling how old timers moved houses with rollers or how boatbuilders launch huge vessels on a greased track, this log moving work I have to do also comes down to friction. If there is limited friction as with the roller or the grease, the object moves easily like Cowboy's wagon. There is an Ag fair in Maine called Common Ground, and their woodlot is managed with a wagon, pulled by a tractor, and the wagon has a loader. Another good rig.

 

[Ken45101]

The reasons are many. I am sure it has been hashed out before.

Here is a list just for starters


4. With the log elevated in the front it is easy to tip forward
...
7. Front axle isnt as strong as rear

I would rather tip forward where the loader bucket will prevent a flip over, than take a chance of flipping over backward.

Any modern well designed tractor with the proper loader should have it's front axle designed to handle the loader capacity.

Everybody keeps warning to keep the load low when skidding (I agree), but that makes you more vunerable to a flip over if the log catches on something. Much less likely, IMO, if you are lifting with the loader and going backwards.

Maneuvering backwards does seem more awkward than dragging forward, I will agree to that.

Ken

 

[tbutman]

I'd go with options #5 or #6 they are the most appealing. However if you want the logs this winter you can buy the following items at Union Farm and be out of there after plucking down about $50. It works just fine. Draw bar goes into the lower links of your 3ph and the hook attaches to that. Buy a length of 5/16 or 3/8 chain with a slip hook at the end. Your total investment may be around $70 if you don't have the chain yet.

ps: with the box blade attached you may not be able to raise the end of the log off the ground.

I'd go with your drawbar option. I have a log arch (Norse) and many times came out of the woods with my front end in the air or barely touching the ground. You can scoop some gravel for counter weight though I never do. Always figured that was why they had turning brakes.

 

[Baby Grand]

A little off topic, but since you bring it up - The Plant Manager & I took a drive in 2010 to go see the MOFGA / Common Ground event. Had a great time. Really enjoyed watching a horse drawn sickle bar mower and a horse drawn potato harvester. They also had a crew demonstrating how to hew beams from logs - lots of fun!

 

[LD1]

I would rather tip forward where the loader bucket will prevent a flip over, than take a chance of flipping over backward.

Any modern well designed tractor with the proper loader should have it's front axle designed to handle the loader capacity.

Everybody keeps warning to keep the load low when skidding (I agree), but that makes you more vunerable to a flip over if the log catches on something. Much less likely, IMO, if you are lifting with the loader and going backwards.

Maneuvering backwards does seem more awkward than dragging forward, I will agree to that.

Ken

Personally, I would rather NOT tip at all than to tip forward. And tipping forward is WAY more likely with an elevated loader than pulling from the rear.

And the front axle IS designed to handle the loaders capacity, if properly ballasted. But even if properly ballasted, pulling by the method you describe can put WAY more force on the loader and front axle than the hydraulics ever could:confused2:

Not to mention that the front axle is mounted on a pivot, so the changes of flipping on its side is greatly increased.

I cannot honestly believe you think this is a good way to skid logs

And I also cannot believe that no one else has commented on how absurd it is:confused2:

 

[davcog]

I used my BX23 to help neighbor clear his lot. Mixed hard and soft wood. Biggest log moved was a hemlock about 21" at butt and 20+ ft long. Set tractor and used backhoe to manuver logs over stumps and pull them up to where they could be twitched to bucking area. If I lost traction I'd drop the log pull ahead tractor length plus 2/3 ft set up and pull log up with backhoe. Kept bucket 1/2 full of dirt as counter weight.

 

[monheganview]

"A quick hitch could be used to lift, secure and control the butt end of a log. Cat 1 QH is 27" wide so your logs would fit nicely.

Then place a two or four wheeled fat tire dolly toward the middle of the log. Probably would have to be secured with chain and binder. Then tow away."

I came across this image on a logging website... and Logrite has a variation in a video with a larger arch up front and a smaller arch at the rear of the log.

My guess is that this approach might work fine but I would be careful to chain up the log so it does not roll.

 

[Chilly807]

I don't know what kind of terrain the OP has to deal with, but some of these ideas I'm seeing would not work on the ground I have, and not on most of the hauling roads either.

Hauling out fence posts and firewood behind the ATV last winter with the arch was like riding a roller coaster, up then down, left and right tilt, slow down a little for the serious bumps and humps and near WOT on snowy uphill climbs. One of the reasons I put the tree deflectors in front of the arch wheels was so I didn't have to slow right down for tight corners, because if you stopped you were done in some cases. Heavy wet snow robs power and traction, momentum was a good thing.

Using the tractor is altogether different though, no suspension and rough roads means you go slow and let the chains and 4x4 get you through the tough spots.

Sean

 

[taborekle]

The reasons are many. I am sure it has been hashed out before.

Here is a list just for starters

1. Less traction in reverse
2. weight distribution is poorer. (lotsa weight up front, not so much in back)
3. 3PH hydraulics are stronger than loader hydraulics
4. With the log elevated in the front it is easy to tip forwatd
5. Loader isnt the strongest to pull from
6. when making turns and pulling from the FEL, you are putting EXTREME side forces on the FEL arms
7. Front axle isnt as strong as rear

ANd plain and simple fact, tractors are made to pull from the rear.

I am sure I missed a bunch.

Well I (and obviously others) disagree with this. I just pulled a cut up tree in several large pieces out of our woods using this technique and I believe it's a very practical way to work. Some of your concerns are answered by:

My tractor is a Kubota B2920 CUT has turf tires, so I have the same traction in reverse as forward. I knew I was dragging with the FEL, so I loaded the 3 point hitch with my carryall which allowed me to carry the chain saw, axe, chain lube, extra fuel and chain, which made a great wood clearing setup, so I had a counterweight. Pivoting a log around with the FEL and the opposite side on the ground shouldn't put severe stress on the loader arms. Since the OP posted the weight of the load and it's within the FEL capacity with reserve, it's also within the range of weights that the front axle is rated for.

Some of the advantages that I see to this are:

It's easier to put the FEL over the log to lift, then the 3PH.
I have more control over the FEL then the 3PH.
The OP would not have to purchase any additional implements or attachments to do this job. They could work with the equipment that they have.

Larry

 

[Chilly807]

Well I (and obviously others) disagree with this. I just pulled a cut up tree in several large pieces out of our woods using this technique and I believe it's a very practical way to work. Some of your concerns are answered by:

My tractor is a Kubota B2920 CUT has turf tires, so I have the same traction in reverse as forward. I knew I was dragging with the FEL, so I loaded the 3 point hitch with my carryall which allowed me to carry the chain saw, axe, chain lube, extra fuel and chain, which made a great wood clearing setup, so I had a counterweight. Pivoting a log around with the FEL and the opposite side on the ground shouldn't put severe stress on the loader arms. Since the OP posted the weight of the load and it's within the FEL capacity with reserve, it's also within the range of weights that the front axle is rated for.

Some of the advantages that I see to this are:

It's easier to put the FEL over the log to lift, then the 3PH.
I have more control over the FEL then the 3PH.
The OP would not have to purchase any additional implements or attachments to do this job. They could work with the equipment that they have.

Larry

While I can see this turning into a pi**ing contest, I'll add that I've MOVED a few logs by using the loader, I've never hauled any that way though. The loader isn't designed to pull, it's meant primarily to lift, with some minor pushing ability, enough to fill the bucket. That is, of course, only my opinion.

I find it pretty awkward backing up any distance with steering on the front wheels, and I can't keep an eye on what the log is doing while I'm watching behind to see where I'm going.

I'd move one this way a short distance, say 50 feet or less, but for any kind of actual distance it's going behind me.

Sean

 

[grnspot110]

Personally, I would want the chain covered, for safety! ~~ grnspot

 

[LD1]

My tractor is a Kubota B2920 CUT has turf tires, so I have the same traction in reverse as forward.

Equal weight distribution......yes that would be correct.

But you dont have equal weight distribution. You have a lot of weight on the front axle (small tires) and not so much on the back vs it you chain and lift and pull with the 3PH. So you would still have more traction pulling going forward simply because you are increasing the weight over the tires that have the most contact (traction) with the ground.

Pivoting a log around with the FEL and the opposite side on the ground shouldn't put severe stress on the loader arms.

I guess this is where we will disagree the MOST. Lifting it is one thing. As soon as you start moving with it, you are imposing stresses on the loader and hydraulics that you are unaware of. Depending on just how high you lift, and just how much ballast you have to keep you from flipping, it is very easy to overload the hydraulics.

Not to mention the side stresses on the loader, which is meant for straight loads, NOT lateral forces. The loader arms can become tweaked very quickly. (you do have to manuver when skidding dont you?)

Since the OP posted the weight of the load and it's within the FEL capacity with reserve, it's also within the range of weights that the front axle is rated for.

The log is over double the capacity of his FEL. His fel has a 882lb capacity at the bucket mid-point:confused2: So it would tax it just lifting. Not to mention now backing up which will try to pull down on the loader even more:confused2:

And kubota doesnt rate their front axles, but his tractor + FEL is probabally in the 2600lb range. Add ~500 for rear ballast and half of the log weight ~925lbs and we are at 4025lbs:confused2: And it is a good possibility that he will have all the weight on the front axle at one time or another. And I dont think the axle is designed for that. For comparison, the JD 4x20 series front axle is rated at only 3500lbs, and that tractor is MUCH bigger.

But hey, it isnt my tractor to tear up, so do whatever?

BTW, I cannot seem to find anywhere in my manual that says pulling in reverse with an elevated FEL is an acceptable practice.

 

[SPYDERLK]

I have an older JD855, 24hp, hydro, turfs, and only weighs about a ton.
When I skidded a bunch of timber the last two falls, I used the trailer moving receiver hitch I built to bolt to a 3pt draw bar. I moved timber the size you mentioned with no problem.

I backed up tight to the log, and picked up the end with the chain hooked to the top of the arm the top link hooked to. Once off the ground, I chained the log up close to the draw bar. That is the chain on the top link arm only lifted, and the chain on the draw bar pulled.

There was enough slack in the pulling chain that the log rode a few inches behind the draw bar so turning wasn't a problem. And yes, it was a little more time consuming to do hook ups and unhooks..........

A factory receiver hitch adapter cost something like $200 and up. I think I have less than $40 in my attachment, including paint........

Good luck with that lottery

Here's my hitch ala Wyobuckaroo & 300UGUY (sorry for the blurry image):

View attachment 243913

I'm working on modifying a $69 Harbor Freight quick hitch into a skidder. The boom pole works, but has it's limitations. It really needs an attachment point about where the two stays are welded for better lift strength and to get the weight closer to the rear axle to reduce front axle lifting. The stays interfere with the log and the bottom cross between the 3PH pins always seems to interfere with the chain to the drawbar.
Working in the woods yesterday I made a real mess dragging this one log. I've been waiting for a good, hard freeze, but it's not here yet. I really need to make a log arch - or grasshopper - thanks for that link, sparc.

Good, Safe methods ^ ^

DANGER V V

Easygo's idea is probably the most economical.

The photo shows a rig that I made that goes a step further. I bought a 3 Pt drawbar from Tractor Supply, a Drawbar Stabilizer from Northern Tool, some flat bar, and a pair of grab hooks from a hardware store. I have mostly used it for waste logs that were smaller than the one hooked up in the photo. If I were to haul anything bigger, I would be sure to carry low, and to have it hitched such that the drawbar would stop it from coming forward.

Another benefit to the Drawbar Stabilizer is that it includes a 2" receiver. I put a ball mount into it when I want to move my utility trailer around with the tractor.

I bought my used tractor with a backhoe on it. I got the 3PT arms and all except the top link (which I replaced from Tractor Supply). However, I did not get the original low drawbar. I may see If I can get one made someday.

Go carefully, and you should be safe.

 

[LD1]

Good, Safe methods ^ ^

DANGER V V

Which category would you put pulling with the log attached to an elevated FEL??

 

[SPYDERLK]

Which category would you put pulling with the log attached to an elevated FEL??

Define elevated. ... Id call it expeditious if it works. A limit to capacity, harder on equipment, inherently less stable. Requires lots of operator attention because its not inherently safe. I do it when it helps get the job done. :confused3:
larry