Grid-tied solar

[Redneck in training]

The issue is current high cost of the storage. If you put energy storage system in your garage its size or mass matters little unlike energy storage for mobile phone, computer or a car. If somebody comes up with energy storage that is cost effective (whatever it will be) everyone will be using it. I know I will. It will also change how the utilities do business. Highly distributed energy system everyone is talking about will become finally reality.
If the AL Carbon battery is cheap and last many cycles it is a step in that direction.

 

[BobRip]

The issue is current high cost of the storage. If you put energy storage system in your garage its size or mass matters little unlike energy storage for mobile phone, computer or a car. If somebody comes up with energy storage that is cost effective (whatever it will be) everyone will be using it. I know I will. It will also change how the utilities do business. Highly distributed energy system everyone is talking about will become finally reality.
If the AL Carbon battery is cheap and last many cycles it is a step in that direction.

I am hoping that the Tesla battery will provide this. Multiple applications of that battery will drive the price down

 

[buickanddeere]

Regarding solar cells, batteries, aircraft design and internal combustion engines. The low hanging fruit was picked decades ago. Any gains now are diminishing and occur with ever increasing costs and complexity.

 

[dave1949]

Australian scientists smash solar cell efficiency record by converting 40.4% of sunlight to energy | Inhabitat - Sustainable Design Innovation, Eco Architecture, Green Building

The Aussies found a better way of using existing technology. The article says it isn't aimed at rooftop solar, but perhaps someone will adapt the technique to home/commercial panels. Current standard pv efficiency is around 16%. Clearly, there are techniques that can double that today. Low cost production and durability are key also for new ideas making it to a commercial product.

 

[Redneck in training]

Regarding solar cells, batteries, aircraft design and internal combustion engines. The low hanging fruit was picked decades ago. Any gains now are diminishing and occur with ever increasing costs and complexity.

Isn't it also true about oil?

 

[buickanddeere]

Isn't it also true about oil?

It is.
The oil was known to be there and accessible. It was a matter of politics to drill and how much to produce. Right now the existing resources are being pumped faster to drop the price of oil. To reduce the income of middle east terrorist organizations.

 

[houstonscott]

That's the mindset that prevents invention. Just imagine if the folks that pioneered the battery advancements of the last 10 years would have believed that. We'd all be packing around smart phones with 5 lb batteries that we had to charge every 27 minutes.

LI batteries were around in the 1980's, commonly used is space industry. Not much other than availability and price has advanced. Not much to tout about in batteries for 35 years now. HS

 

[Egon]

Regarding solar cells, batteries, aircraft design and internal combustion engines. The low hanging fruit was picked decades ago. Any gains now are diminishing and occur with ever increasing costs and complexity.

Think the trees got changed to shorter varieties to facilitate picking so there may be a new standard for low hanging.

Sand is another hindrance to new developments!

 

[houstonscott]

Isn't it also true about oil?

It was until horizontal fracking came along, it is a major break through and has changed the oil industry forever, and political landscape world wide. HS

 

[BobRip]

LI batteries were around in the 1980's, commonly used is space industry. Not much other than availability and price has advanced. Not much to tout about in batteries for 35 years now. HS

Price and availability are not important? I think they are the most important thing. The guy who invents something is important, but the guy who actually makes it good and cheap gets my appreciation and money.

 

[buickanddeere]

Price and availability are not important? I think they are the most important thing. The guy who invents something is important, but the guy who actually makes it good and cheap gets my appreciation and money.

The periodic table has not sprouted any new elements . The price of gold is not getting cheaper due to increased demand.

 

[Redneck in training]

It is.
The oil was known to be there and accessible. It was a matter of politics to drill and how much to produce. Right now the existing resources are being pumped faster to drop the price of oil. To reduce the income of middle east terrorist organizations.

I used to do a lot of contract work for gas and oil in past 25 years. New sources are hard to find and as a rule are expensive to develop. There are some hits and lot of misses. I worked on several promising projects that at the end made little money or barely broke even.

 

[Redneck in training]

It was until horizontal fracking came along, it is a major break through and has changed the oil industry forever, and political landscape world wide. HS

Horizontal fracking is example of expensive way to get hydrocarbon.

 

[houstonscott]

Horizontal fracking is example of expensive way to get hydrocarbon.

Only if you think $17 a barrel is expensive. Lol. HS

 

[Kyle_in_Tex]

Everyone please go argue in the other solar thread. Try to keep this thread simple about a guy who wanted his own system to offset his utility costs, while being honest about the costs involved with the installation.

Thanks.

 

[Egon]

The periodic table has not sprouted any new elements . The price of gold is not getting cheaper due to increased demand.

Some folks may disagree with you. The periodic table has always been under revision.

Definitely the sand!

 

[dave1949]

Some folks may disagree with you. The periodic table has always been under revision.

Definitely the sand!

I read "The Disappearing Spoon" a while back. It covers the history of the periodic table. Some rare/odd elements were predicted to exist before they were found. It has been a continuing process over the past 150 years or so.

I do think that battery advances depend more on getting better performance out of the elements we already have, perhaps through nanotechnology reducing the material quantities needed. That would boost energy density and require fewer raw materials.

What is probably unique now is there is a pent-up market demand for better battery technology, or some other storage means. That demand attracts capital, talent and research dollars. I don't think we are done yet.

 

[Redneck in training]

Only if you think $17 a barrel is expensive. Lol. HS

That is a dream only. Fracking is very expensive by the fact that typical fracked well production fall off about 70% in a year two and stops producing in about year three. To keep the production up you have to drill and drill and drill. There is no way anybody will keep drilling (get financing) when oil drops below $50/barrel. I think the break even point is rather 65/barrel. To keep fracking going you need oil at rather 100/barrel level to get financing. Production from conventional wells typically drops only 2-5%/year.

 

[houstonscott]

That is a dream only. Fracking is very expensive by the fact that typical fracked well production fall off about 70% in a year two and stops producing in about year three. To keep the production up you have to drill and drill and drill. There is no way anybody will keep drilling (get financing) when oil drops below $50/barrel. I think the break even point is rather 65/barrel. To keep fracking going you need oil at rather 100/barrel level to get financing. Production from conventional wells typically drops only 2-5%/year.

I don't think you realize how fast this technology has changed, all your issues are talking points from 10 years past. I used $17 for a reason. The latest technology doesn't even use water to frack. HS

 

[dave1949]

EVs and Battery Cost Predictions and Improvements | The Energy Collective

Some article highlights:


Average battery pack costs have fallen 14 percent per year across the industry, which has seen sales volumes double annually in recent years. EV battery packs now cost $410 per kilowatt-hour (kWh) of storage capacity on average (with a 95 percent confidence interval ranging from $250–670 per kWh).

The cost of batteries produced by market leading firms, such as Renault-Nissan and Tesla Motors, however, have fallen further, to an average of $300 per kWh, according to the study.

At $300 per kWh, electric vehicles can begin to compete economically with traditional petroleum-fueled internal combustion engines when gasoline costs $3-5 per gallon (€0.73-1.22 per liter), according to separate analyses from global consulting firm McKinsey and the International Energy Agency. The U.S. Department of Energy (DOE) has set a target of $150 per kWh for battery electric vehicles to become broadly competitive and see widespread market adoption.

In the near-term, the researchers believe economies of scale, improvements in cell manufacturing and learning-by-doing in pack integration, rather than advancements in cell chemistry or other R&D breakthroughs, will help manufacturers continue to produce cheaper batteries.

At $150 per kwh, the 40 kwh I would like to have would cost $6,000. Throw in some necessary control hardware for another $1,500. $7,500 total. That's not bad. It is competitive with the cost of getting grid power in many cases.