Grapple --- 1 Lid or 2

Hilbilly · Mar 2, 2015

Scott65 said:
Sorry, I haven't read every page in this thread, it's become quite large. But to the OP, if you still have the original question in mind: I built a grapple to go on the bucket of my L3301. Just a single lid. I'm still trying to find time to do a write-up on it (and several others). Its not pretty by any means, but its very strong. Stronger than I thought actually. The other day I needed to move a propane tank. I'm not sure exactly how big or how many gallons, I would guess nearly as long as the tractor. Definitely longer than the bucket is wide. Probably wasn't the best thing to do, but I scooped the bucket under one end and clamped the grapple down onto it and lifted it up and away I went. I was able to drive across my 10 acres, bumps, ruts and all with little issue. I have often wondered if I would like a double lid grapple. But I don't think that would have worked here. The seam between them would have been right where the tank was, putting quite a bit of sideways stress on both lids.

This applies allot of the time with larger stumps and whatnot. But then there are other times that I scoop things, such as uneven loads of large rocks or something, that I wish I had 2 lids to hold the load in better. In a perfect world you would have both. Personally I think There are always going to be instances where the one that you don't have would seem to do the task at hand a little bit better, no matter which one you go with. But all-in-all, I'm quite happy with the single lid that I build.

I've finished the fab work and have the primer on. Just waiting for some warmer weather to paint it, then I will be done. Oh and I did go with the single lid.

I have a question for you though. What type of steel did you use. I used "mild steel" from the steel supply place and am concerned that I should have used something better. It seems to me that this steel may be on the weak side, since I can bend it quite easily without using heat.

You're right about the thread size too. I probably should have started a new one with the build itself.

IslandTractor · Mar 2, 2015

Most grapples are made of "mild" steel. There are a few like the Anbo that require higher grade steel but those are very expensive. Of note, the small 50" EA grapple uses 1/4" high strength steel in lieu of 3/8" mild steel in order to save weight.

I would prefer a grapple to be made with mild steel however as that makes it easy to fix.

Scott65 · Mar 2, 2015

Oh I didn't even realize you had already built it. Man that thing looks great! Mine is horrible in comparison. But I can't deny, still just as useful. I wouldn't be without it. Your going to love it. Mine is made out of mild steel. 1/2 inch keeps coming to mind for some reason, however that sounds awfully thick. The main thing is gussets and braces in the right spots. I'm no engineer but it looks to me like you have that covered pretty well.

The bottom portion looks real good. I only built a top grapple to use on the bucket. I plan to built a bottom some day that will have the same hinge points so the lid can be used on either. I think there are benefits to having both setups.

Hilbilly · Mar 2, 2015

IslandTractor said:
Most grapples are made of "mild" steel. There are a few like the Anbo that require higher grade steel but those are very expensive. Of note, the small 50" EA grapple uses 1/4" high strength steel in lieu of 3/8" mild steel in order to save weight.

I would prefer a grapple to be made with mild steel however as that makes it easy to fix.

After building it, I read various grapple manufacturer's information and found some used A36, A50, AR400,etc. It's all Greek to me. Some didn't state what steel they used. I guess I should have checked this out before starting the build.:mur: Oh well it's done now and I will hope for the best. You are right about it being easier to fix if I do "tweak" it. Worst case scenario is that I cut off the bottom tines and make new stronger ones. It won't take any where near as long to make it the second time. I spent a lot of time just figuring stuff out and trying to figure ways around having to use the O/A torch for cutting odd angles. Now I have no hesitation to use the O/A torch, plus I have the plasma. I'm all set for the next build.

IslandTractor · Mar 2, 2015

Hilbilly said:
After building it, I read various grapple manufacturer's information and found some used A36, A50, AR400,etc. It's all Greek to me. Some didn't state what steel they used. I guess I should have checked this out before starting the build.:mur: Oh well it's done now and I will hope for the best. You are right about it being easier to fix if I do "tweak" it. Worst case scenario is that I cut off the bottom tines and make new stronger ones. It won't take any where near as long to make it the second time. I spent a lot of time just figuring stuff out and trying to figure ways around having to use the O/A torch for cutting odd angles. Now I have no hesitation to use the O/A torch, plus I have the plasma. I'm all set for the next build.

You are not going to break your bottom tines believe me. The only way to break or damage a grapple with a CUT is to twist it. If you center loads before you lift then you cannot twist or hurt the grapple. Your FEL simply isn't strong enough even if you can lift both rear wheels off the ground. If you don't ram into things off center you won't damage either the grapple or the FEL either.

TomSeller · Mar 2, 2015

Hilbilly said:
After building it, I read various grapple manufacturer's information and found some used A36, A50, AR400,etc. It's all Greek to me. Some didn't state what steel they used. I guess I should have checked this out before starting the build.:mur: Oh well it's done now and I will hope for the best. You are right about it being easier to fix if I do "tweak" it. Worst case scenario is that I cut off the bottom tines and make new stronger ones. It won't take any where near as long to make it the second time. I spent a lot of time just figuring stuff out and trying to figure ways around having to use the O/A torch for cutting odd angles. Now I have no hesitation to use the O/A torch, plus I have the plasma. I'm all set for the next build.

If you have a big skid steer, you may benefit from the higher strength steel. Interestingly, the only bent times that I have are on what is supposed to be T1. I am fairly gentle with mine and don't have many boulders, but I think you will be fine with A36.

jmc · Mar 3, 2015

It seems to me that the other thing about using higher strength steel is that the design needs to be considered as well to get full value from the premium steel. For example when you start welding cross supports out near the tine tips, the heat affected zone at those welds is probably deteriorated to not much better than mild steel. I think that needs to be taken into consideration in the design and welding. I would be interested in some weldors' input about that.

IslandTractor · Mar 3, 2015

jmc said:
It seems to me that the other thing about using higher strength steel is that the design needs to be considered as well to get full value from the premium steel. For example when you start welding cross supports out near the tine tips, the heat affected zone at those welds is probably deteriorated to not much better than mild steel. I think that needs to be taken into consideration in the design and welding. I would be interested in some weldors' input about that.

That is exactly my point about why mild steel is a reasonable choice of material for grapples: it can be repaired by an average or amateur welder with simple equipment.

The EA 50" grapple uses high strength steel specifically to save weight. The big Anbo grapples use it because they are intended to be used on powerful skid steers in constant commercial use. The vast majority of grapples sold for use on CUTs are in fact made with mild steel and it is more than adequate.

Hilbilly · Mar 3, 2015

Good points!!!!

I don't know a thing about steel or welding higher strength steels, so it appears I made the right choice (by fluke) for a home/hobby welder. Time will tell. I am very close to being able to use it. I got the first coat of paint on the top side of the grapple last night and the second coat of spar urethane on the FEL knob. Had to do it all inside the shop, since the weather yesterday was goofy. Wake up to -10C and clouds, then the clouds start to lift but it is blowing like crazy. Finally the winds die down so I get prepped to paint outside. I open the shop door and it's snowing. So I stayed inside and painted there. Not fun though, even with the windows open the fumes got pretty bad. Looks like today is going to be sunny all day but not get above freezing. Might try painting it outside anyways, later in the day. Otherwise I have to flip the grapple over to get the underside and the thing is getting pretty heavy.