Got asked to bid a very unusual project

[CliffordK]

Yes, planning for the “drought” months.


Amazing how everyone keeps pushing for that, but the RR won’t allow access. LOL
They just won’t.
Let’s put that to rest.

Besides, Any kind of “crane/winch rig” would get pulled off the bridge like a toy if a larger piece broke off in the current with cable attached.

Ok, I didn't catch that this was a summer job. Excellent.

I still don't think I'd want to be climbing around on the log jam while working on it, although I've climbed over log jams on the shore that are high and dry. I definitely wouldn't want to be standing on the logs and have someone winching logs out from underneath me.

So that leaves one needing a place with good solid footing to work from. Either up on the bridge, or on some kind of anchored raft.

If you designed your jib crane with a breakaway. So, say you have 500 lbs for your grapple and cable, then you let go if it gets jerked with 1000+ lbs.

I suppose the risk is that if working on the logs you actually knock down the bridge, but that seems unlikely if it has survived several floods.

Ultimately, if all answers point to the safest option and it gets nixed for liability, then I'd simply pass on the job. You will need to have a lot of insurance for the job.

 

[Streetcar]

So this is a recently abandoned railway in my town. We have hundreds of them here in the rust belt. Unfortunately, with their abandonment comes a lack of maintenance. I would think they would still have to maintain this, but owner tells me they won’t.
So I have been asked to remove this log jamb.
I have my ideas, but thought some backround information would be helpful.

There is no access from the RR bridge. It is closed off and off limits, so debris cannot be removed from there.
On the right side of the picture, the land you see is mush. You cannot realistically get equipment to the edge of the river from there.
On the left side of the picture, there is a “ledge” of ground. You can get a pickup down there, but not much bigger without cutting/building an access path.

View attachment 848250



My thought was to rent a crane with a clamshell bucket and an operator and have him “grapple” the logs and swing them over into a waiting debris truck. The crane would sit where you see the foot tracks in the foreground.


Water is fairly deep and current fairly strong. The width of the water from the center of the rail bridge center support to the edge of each bank is about 50’ of water.

Thoughts?

What are the rules for working in the stream?
can you build causeway to get close to pier and use excavator with thumb to remove pile.
crane with clam shell bucket will work but be slow

 

[paulsharvey]

So, scale of the logs doesn't come across, but are we talking 12", 24", 30+"? If a significant portion is sub 18" a pole saw, on an anchored Carolia Skiff, some ropes, and a machine on shore would do the job. The crane is still probably the single most cost effective route, But I've learned, talk to the crane guy first. Some might be willing to gamble a bit, but most crane operators I know, if they don't feel comfortable, they will flat out tell you "I ain't doing that"

 

[texas42]

look into a logging yarder

 

[Hay Dude]

What are the rules for working in the stream?

None that I am aware of. Just don’t drown and don’t cut loose LARGE chunks of timber all at once.

can you build causeway to get close to pier and use excavator with thumb to remove pile.
crane with clam shell bucket will work but be slow

No. The reach is over 60’ from the river bank to the pile. No commonly known excavator has that kind of reach.

I can’t be renting stuff from NASA

 

[Hay Dude]

So, scale of the logs doesn't come across, but are we talking 12", 24", 30+"? If a significant portion is sub 18" a pole saw, on an anchored Carolia Skiff, some ropes, and a machine on shore would do the job. The crane is still probably the single most cost effective route, But I've learned, talk to the crane guy first. Some might be willing to gamble a bit, but most crane operators I know, if they don't feel comfortable, they will flat out tell you "I ain't doing that"

I’m talking to crane company tomorrow.
The thing about the crane is it’ll cost mucho denero to run.
I think I can do this from the floating platform by picking away with a chainsaw or polesaw. I have both. Know someone with a platform boat already in the river.

Do the same job cheaper so I can make a little more and not have to worry about trucking the logs.

Floating 5’ pieces one at a time in staggered manner down the stream won’t hurt anything.

 

[Hay Dude]

Note that it isn’t required to remove the logs from the property in the river
No need to “cable” the logs to shore, unless I want to. Cabling logs in a river is a recipe for disaster. Just float them in small chunks
Now the junk under the piers in the flood plane would have to be trucked away and that’s doable with my dump truck and a wide track excavator.

The river log jam is just a small fraction of the work. I think it could be cut into small pieces and floated in a day’s work.
Only thing left to figure out is how to cut submerged logs quickly.

 

[Streetcar]

Causeway would be fill temporarily placed in stream to get equipment closer to pier. The closer you are , the smaller equipment needs to be to remove debris.
does water gets low enough to walk to debris with cable to hook and drag debris out

 

[Hay Dude]

Causeway would be fill temporarily placed in stream to get equipment closer to pier. The closer you are , the smaller equipment needs to be to remove debris.
does water gets low enough to walk to debris with cable to hook and drag debris out

Yes, during dry times of the year. That’s when we will do it.

 

[plowhog]

Ok, I didn't catch that this was a summer job.

Me either. Seems like a different job almost if only 3 feet of water.

 

[dodge man]

Maybe it’s just me but I don’t think the log jam in the river will be that tough once you start on it.

Are you sure one of those long reach excavators won’t reach it? I just looked up the specs and some are 70 feet or a little more. They aren’t common but I see them around here, I think mainly for clearing out ponds.

 

[Hay Dude]

Maybe it’s just me but I don’t think the log jam in the river will be that tough once you start on it.

Are you sure one of those long reach excavators won’t reach it? I just looked up the specs and some are 70 feet or a little more. They aren’t common but I see them around here, I think mainly for clearing out ponds.

Not sure I’d want to be perched on a river bank with a dipperstick extended 60-70 feet (if such a machine exists) over a body of water.
One false move and you and the machine are going for a crazy dangerous and expensive swim.

 

[dodge man]

They exist, they look like a regular tracked machine although on the larger size. I do notice they have a smaller bucket on them and the boom seems like a thinner profile. Just Google “long reach excavator “ and you’ll see what I’m talking about. I’m sure it takes a lot more care just because the boom is so long.

 

[paulsharvey]

So, it's Not your problem, or your scope of work; but I think the log jam is only 30% of any flooding issue. I think the sand bar might be the route cause. Now, did a log jam catch sediment and lead to the sand bar? Maybe. Will removing the logs allow natural scour to remove the sand bar? Maybe. Would I be caught excavating a sandbar next to a bridge structure? He'll no, I wouldn't dig that sand bar out, using Your license/insurance/equipment

None of that is related to your scope, and I'm not intending it too be. All I'm saying, is, it's hard to tell a symptom from a cause...

A good stable boat, some safety ropes, and a pole saw will do a lot of work. I Do think it's a min 2 man job though; and not being able to see the bottom 75% of the perverbial iceberg, I would be hesitant to throw a lump sum bid at this job, unless it was Well padded, or had a provision for unforseen circumstances.

 

[Streetcar]

They exist, they look like a regular tracked machine although on the larger size. I do notice they have a smaller bucket on them and the boom seems like a thinner profile. Just Google “long reach excavator “ and you’ll see what I’m talking about. I’m sure it takes a lot more care just because the boom is so long.

The long boom excavator does not have much capacity due to extreme reach. Mostly used for grading and demolition.

 

[Streetcar]

Typically the debris will catch on the pier and
then sand will be trapped in the debris field

 

[Hay Dude]

So, it's Not your problem, or your scope of work; but I think the log jam is only 30% of any flooding issue. I think the sand bar might be the route cause. Now, did a log jam catch sediment and lead to the sand bar? Maybe. Will removing the logs allow natural scour to remove the sand bar? Maybe. Would I be caught excavating a sandbar next to a bridge structure? He'll no, I wouldn't dig that sand bar out, using Your license/insurance/equipment

None of that is related to your scope, and I'm not intending it too be. All I'm saying, is, it's hard to tell a symptom from a cause...

A good stable boat, some safety ropes, and a pole saw will do a lot of work. I Do think it's a min 2 man job though; and not being able to see the bottom 75% of the perverbial iceberg, I would be hesitant to throw a lump sum bid at this job, unless it was Well padded, or had a provision for unforseen circumstances.

I’ll leave it up to the water engineers.
They went to college for this stuff, so they must know everything.

 

[Hay Dude]

I could just see rolling a “long reach” excavator into a beautiful, historic river in front of a bunch of museum visitors. Minimum of water contamination from diesel fuel & oil, and destroying a rented machine, or worst case, drowning in the cab submerged underwater.

Reach is very far and the logs are heavy & waterlogged.

No thanks.

 

[two_bit_score]

I get the general idea of why they want this done. My opinion is they think the log jamb is causing flooding but I’m betting it’s not. I think no matter what you do some is going downstream.

It was going down straem when it got hung up there.

 

[two_bit_score]

I think we are finally coming back around to dynamite as the solution here.