Egon
Epic Contributor
Dig some test holes.
For seeding rates do a goggle search for your area. Lots of hits.
Getting cleared area ready to plant & HP recommendations...
- Thread starter e.myers
- Start date
- Views: 6483
Dig some test holes.
For seeding rates do a goggle search for your area. Lots of hits.
e.myers,
It sounds like you are not sure what you want, and don't have time to come up with a perfect plan. So, I agree with your idea of disking, throwing on some rye, and disking again. It will grow, and also give your soil a chance to settle. If you are up north, you could frost seed clover on top of the rye in January or Feb. I frost seed clover with good results. The clover will germinate and slowly grow under the rye when the temps warm up, and when you mow the dry rye in the late spring the clover will really take off. Here's a link to a great seed manual. http://ccmachinery.com/public_html/images/SeedManual.pdf
It will help you with seeding rates and plant descriptions, benefits, etc. They say rye should be seeded at 2 -3 bushels per acre (120-180lbs).
I also agree that the soil will open up as the roots decay. Unless you are looking for a flat lawn and not a field, I would dress it up the best you can with a disk and use the plan above. You can always rework it all in a year or two if it is not as you would like.
It sounds like you are not sure what you want, and don't have time to come up with a perfect plan. So, I agree with your idea of disking, throwing on some rye, and disking again. It will grow, and also give your soil a chance to settle. If you are up north, you could frost seed clover on top of the rye in January or Feb. I frost seed clover with good results. The clover will germinate and slowly grow under the rye when the temps warm up, and when you mow the dry rye in the late spring the clover will really take off. Here's a link to a great seed manual. http://ccmachinery.com/public_html/images/SeedManual.pdf
It will help you with seeding rates and plant descriptions, benefits, etc. They say rye should be seeded at 2 -3 bushels per acre (120-180lbs).
I also agree that the soil will open up as the roots decay. Unless you are looking for a flat lawn and not a field, I would dress it up the best you can with a disk and use the plan above. You can always rework it all in a year or two if it is not as you would like.
jenkinsph
Super Star Member
I think this whole stump thing is being blown out of proportion. An excavator dug out the stumps and buried them as I understand. The concern is whether he missed a few and will running over them damage the rototiller. The newest approach is to pull the scarifier attachment through the ground to see if any are found. To be specific we are looking for pine stumps and roots for the most part.
When tilling with my 4520 and 673 tiller set all the way down I set the cruise speed to .5 mph (1/2 miles per hour) and watch ahead of me for any apparent obstructions. Since you can't see below the surface you may still hit something but since it is a forward rotation tiller it simply bounces the tiller up and down a few times and we keep going. That is about all that happens, the tiller does not self distruct. The vast majority of the time you are traveling along at a very slow pace tilling the ground up and pulverizing everything in its wake. Been there done that.
With the addition of the ripper pictured I have to ask how fast are you going to pull searching for stumps? Hanging up on a large stump may give you a real jolt when you least expect it and may tear up your tractor too if traveling too fast.
I think the big thing to understand here is how the impact forces are released when you hit something like a stump or large rock. With a forward tine tiller the forces on impacting the stump will make it bounce up a few inches and the hitch on the tractor is free to allow this to happen. When a ripper on a small tractor impacts a stump it hangs up on it and brings you to a sudden stop. I have to ask all of you which scenario sounds more damaging and expensive?
Steve
When tilling with my 4520 and 673 tiller set all the way down I set the cruise speed to .5 mph (1/2 miles per hour) and watch ahead of me for any apparent obstructions. Since you can't see below the surface you may still hit something but since it is a forward rotation tiller it simply bounces the tiller up and down a few times and we keep going. That is about all that happens, the tiller does not self distruct. The vast majority of the time you are traveling along at a very slow pace tilling the ground up and pulverizing everything in its wake. Been there done that.
With the addition of the ripper pictured I have to ask how fast are you going to pull searching for stumps? Hanging up on a large stump may give you a real jolt when you least expect it and may tear up your tractor too if traveling too fast.
I think the big thing to understand here is how the impact forces are released when you hit something like a stump or large rock. With a forward tine tiller the forces on impacting the stump will make it bounce up a few inches and the hitch on the tractor is free to allow this to happen. When a ripper on a small tractor impacts a stump it hangs up on it and brings you to a sudden stop. I have to ask all of you which scenario sounds more damaging and expensive?
Steve
Egon/Ford/Jenk-
Seed Manual Copied to desktop. Looks very informative. Thanks!
Yeah, too little time to plan for this year. I ALWAYS seem to be exactly 2 weeks behind the curve when it comes to farming related things. Start planning too late even though I think I'm way ahead. Have GOT to get a better handle on this. I think the tractor will actaully make a difference.
Sounds like I'm hearing from everyone that I may not need the scarifier. Haven't got pricing yet, but figured it couldn't be too much for THAT.
I'm eventually going to get some clover down. Your plan sounds great and will buy me some time.
I understand the concerns with the scarifier and getting hung up on a stump. I was thinking of going very slowly (whatever that means). Even thinking that MAYBE the scarifier could pull the PINE stump... but don't know. Might not be an abrupt stop, but it might. Good points regardless.
That being said, once I know the stumps are all removed and I have the ground tilled up or ripped up or whatever for the first time, wouldn't I be able go move across my land more quickly with the ripper vs the tiller? I think for MX purposes, the ripper would be fine as long as I was dragging a land plane behind it, once I get everything initially prepared.
Bottom line is IF it's not going to have the capability of getting further into the ground than my tiller, and/or it's not going to be faster than tilling (don't think discing will get as far down as tilling), then it may be an expense I don't need after all.
Any more thoughts?
Seed Manual Copied to desktop. Looks very informative. Thanks!
Yeah, too little time to plan for this year. I ALWAYS seem to be exactly 2 weeks behind the curve when it comes to farming related things. Start planning too late even though I think I'm way ahead. Have GOT to get a better handle on this. I think the tractor will actaully make a difference.
Sounds like I'm hearing from everyone that I may not need the scarifier. Haven't got pricing yet, but figured it couldn't be too much for THAT.
I'm eventually going to get some clover down. Your plan sounds great and will buy me some time.
I understand the concerns with the scarifier and getting hung up on a stump. I was thinking of going very slowly (whatever that means). Even thinking that MAYBE the scarifier could pull the PINE stump... but don't know. Might not be an abrupt stop, but it might. Good points regardless.
That being said, once I know the stumps are all removed and I have the ground tilled up or ripped up or whatever for the first time, wouldn't I be able go move across my land more quickly with the ripper vs the tiller? I think for MX purposes, the ripper would be fine as long as I was dragging a land plane behind it, once I get everything initially prepared.
Bottom line is IF it's not going to have the capability of getting further into the ground than my tiller, and/or it's not going to be faster than tilling (don't think discing will get as far down as tilling), then it may be an expense I don't need after all.
Any more thoughts?
jenkinsph
Super Star Member
e.myers,
Pine is a softwood just till the place with your new tiller and get a landscape rake to clean up whatever is on top after that. I bought a digital camera today so I will try to figure out how to post some pictures to give you some idea of what the tillers are capable of and what the landplane will do for you. Give me a day or so to get this figured out.
Steve
Pine is a softwood just till the place with your new tiller and get a landscape rake to clean up whatever is on top after that. I bought a digital camera today so I will try to figure out how to post some pictures to give you some idea of what the tillers are capable of and what the landplane will do for you. Give me a day or so to get this figured out.
Steve
Thanks Steve.
Decided to forgo the scarifier for now. See if I need it.
Once the land is cleared, and I've tilled it, do you think the scarifier would be quicker to use (more ground speed) than the tiller? Would it get deeper than the tiller?
Still have time to add it to the contract.
Eddie
Decided to forgo the scarifier for now. See if I need it.
Once the land is cleared, and I've tilled it, do you think the scarifier would be quicker to use (more ground speed) than the tiller? Would it get deeper than the tiller?
Still have time to add it to the contract.
Eddie
jenkinsph
Super Star Member
I think you can pass on it since it is an inexpensive item.
As I mentioned before tractor, tiller, landscape rake, 3 pt harrow, 3 pt landplane and small pull behind seeder (available at Lowes or Home Depot about $250. These will work the open acreage for planting and along with your existing boxblade will work the track.
A good landplane is something you may want to add since this will run about $1600 to $2000. I built my own since I have good welding equipment for about $900 (very heavy duty with two 8' bolt on grader blades).
As another poster mentioned, if you can find some cheap section harrows these will work for now, hard to buy everything at once I understand.
I suggested on the other thread to get the heavy duty tiller, it will work with your new tractor as well as a larger tractor later on, the other implements will also.
Steve
As I mentioned before tractor, tiller, landscape rake, 3 pt harrow, 3 pt landplane and small pull behind seeder (available at Lowes or Home Depot about $250. These will work the open acreage for planting and along with your existing boxblade will work the track.
A good landplane is something you may want to add since this will run about $1600 to $2000. I built my own since I have good welding equipment for about $900 (very heavy duty with two 8' bolt on grader blades).
As another poster mentioned, if you can find some cheap section harrows these will work for now, hard to buy everything at once I understand.
I suggested on the other thread to get the heavy duty tiller, it will work with your new tractor as well as a larger tractor later on, the other implements will also.
Steve
Cover Crop Experts....
Roam RDB, Ford 850, Rambler....
Weatherman lied.
Spent all weekend tilling 5 acres and got a cereal rye/crimson clover mix broadcast at a relatively high rate per acre at dark last night. Intended to wake up and use a drag harrow on the seed to lightly cover it.
Well, lo and behold, the bottom fell out this morning and continued all day.... dog food bowls had about 3 inches in them!
Anyway, my field is pretty much a "swamp" now (little standing water but muddy) so little hope of getting tractor in there for the next day or so.
I walked it today and the seed still seems to be relatively in place, but it's definitely on the surface.
Combination Sand, Clay and Sand Loam.
What's gonna happen? What should I do next? Pray?
I'm pm'ing all of you too.
Roam RDB, Ford 850, Rambler....
Weatherman lied.
Spent all weekend tilling 5 acres and got a cereal rye/crimson clover mix broadcast at a relatively high rate per acre at dark last night. Intended to wake up and use a drag harrow on the seed to lightly cover it.
Well, lo and behold, the bottom fell out this morning and continued all day.... dog food bowls had about 3 inches in them!
Anyway, my field is pretty much a "swamp" now (little standing water but muddy) so little hope of getting tractor in there for the next day or so.
I walked it today and the seed still seems to be relatively in place, but it's definitely on the surface.
Combination Sand, Clay and Sand Loam.
What's gonna happen? What should I do next? Pray?
I'm pm'ing all of you too.
jenkinsph
Super Star Member
I would let it dry out enough that you can drive over it with an atv or any high flotation tires and pull a harrow or better yet a roller across it. I harrowed my seed in and then rolled it to press the dirt in contact with the seed. You don't want to bury the seed, you just want to cover it about 1/4" or so.
The last thing you want is to drive on it when it is still muddy making ruts in your new field.
Steve
The last thing you want is to drive on it when it is still muddy making ruts in your new field.
Steve
jenkinsph
Super Star Member
How long does it take to dry out? If you can get in there within 5 days or so and lightly cover it I think you will be okay.
I used a small lawn mower style roller on the last patch I planted and rolled an acre in about 30 minutes. So in a couple of hours with an ATV pulling the roller (36") you can help this seed alot. I purchased a used lawn roller that you fill with water from Home Depots rental section cost was $75. The surface needs to be dry enough not ball up on the roller.
Steve
I used a small lawn mower style roller on the last patch I planted and rolled an acre in about 30 minutes. So in a couple of hours with an ATV pulling the roller (36") you can help this seed alot. I purchased a used lawn roller that you fill with water from Home Depots rental section cost was $75. The surface needs to be dry enough not ball up on the roller.
Steve
e.myers,
Where are you located? If you are up north, the clover won't germinate until spring anyway. In northern Ohio for example, it would have to be planted by August, otherwise it would be planted in Jan or after for spring germination. The clover shouldn't be covered much either.
The rye is fairly easy to grow though, so any depth from 1/4" to 1 1/2" would be fine. If you can get on it with a drag within a week or so it should be fine. If more rain is coming within a couple days after you drag it will be perfect. If it looks like no rain will be there for many days after you drag, then a roller would help things to be sure the seed isn't sitting in dry pockets as it germinates.
Best case scenario, it will dry out enough to get on it before it germinates.
Worst case scenario, it continues to rain, the rye and clover partially germinate.
The clover might not germinate this fall and the seed might rot before spring. Or it might germinate but not grow enough to survive the winter and die out in the spring. You could remedy this by broadcasting more clover in late winter. (this all depends on your location). Regardless of the clover timing, 3 inches of rain on a newly tilled area was sure to settle a lot of the rye and clover enough to germinate. If you can get on it within the 7 - 10 days, you will be fine.
Where are you located? If you are up north, the clover won't germinate until spring anyway. In northern Ohio for example, it would have to be planted by August, otherwise it would be planted in Jan or after for spring germination. The clover shouldn't be covered much either.
The rye is fairly easy to grow though, so any depth from 1/4" to 1 1/2" would be fine. If you can get on it with a drag within a week or so it should be fine. If more rain is coming within a couple days after you drag it will be perfect. If it looks like no rain will be there for many days after you drag, then a roller would help things to be sure the seed isn't sitting in dry pockets as it germinates.
Best case scenario, it will dry out enough to get on it before it germinates.
Worst case scenario, it continues to rain, the rye and clover partially germinate.
The clover might not germinate this fall and the seed might rot before spring. Or it might germinate but not grow enough to survive the winter and die out in the spring. You could remedy this by broadcasting more clover in late winter. (this all depends on your location). Regardless of the clover timing, 3 inches of rain on a newly tilled area was sure to settle a lot of the rye and clover enough to germinate. If you can get on it within the 7 - 10 days, you will be fine.
Ford-
Thanks a bunch.
I'm in South Carolina, and my window for getting the clover part of the mix in was last weekend (when I planted it).
I THINK, I should be able to get something done to cover it by the time frame you're talking.
Crossing my fingers. Thanks for the Best/Worse Case scenario examples.
Am I hearing you right in that it would be "better" not to roll the land after I drag it if rain is coming because it will settle the seed in by itself (give good seed to soil contact)?
Thanks again.
Eddie
Thanks a bunch.
I'm in South Carolina, and my window for getting the clover part of the mix in was last weekend (when I planted it).
I THINK, I should be able to get something done to cover it by the time frame you're talking.
Crossing my fingers. Thanks for the Best/Worse Case scenario examples.
Am I hearing you right in that it would be "better" not to roll the land after I drag it if rain is coming because it will settle the seed in by itself (give good seed to soil contact)?
Thanks again.
Eddie
I'm not saying it would be better not to roll it as much as it probably is not needed if rain is predicted. The rain will settle the bed. Rolling it would add an extra pass over the field and compact the soft swollen seeds with your tires, possibly damaging them. However, it if dries out and stays dry then rolling would be better, in my opinion. It will grow either way, so relax and enjoy the green over the next 3 weeks.
So much for chillin....
Ain't looking good.
Tomorrow morning 9AM 100% chance of rain. 1-2 inches.
Tomorrow night 70% chance and .25-.5 inches
Thursday 40% and .25-.5 inches
Thursday night 70% and .25- .5 inches
Friday 30% and .25-.5 inches.
Took a look out in the field and the clover has already germinated. Nothing green but definitely germinated.
Rye is swollen and shows signs of germination.
Only good news in this is that it should be overcast while the seeds are trying to get establish so I guess there is potential that the parts that are germinating won't get burnt up. However this same overcast condition will prevent me from getting into the feeled to harrow the seed in by the window looks like.
Friday is 5 days since seed was planted. If it rains as predicted, it will certainly be a couple days before I can get in the field.
Looking like I'm gonna have to let it ride and see what happens
Oh well. Whats done is done. Will just have to see what happens. Guess I'm gonna learn (whether I wanted to or not) how well Cereal Rye and Crimson clover grow when the seeds are not covered.
Lesson learned is...
Do not broadcast seed if you're not going to have enough time to cover the seed on the same day.
Ain't looking good.
Tomorrow morning 9AM 100% chance of rain. 1-2 inches.
Tomorrow night 70% chance and .25-.5 inches
Thursday 40% and .25-.5 inches
Thursday night 70% and .25- .5 inches
Friday 30% and .25-.5 inches.
Took a look out in the field and the clover has already germinated. Nothing green but definitely germinated.
Rye is swollen and shows signs of germination.
Only good news in this is that it should be overcast while the seeds are trying to get establish so I guess there is potential that the parts that are germinating won't get burnt up. However this same overcast condition will prevent me from getting into the feeled to harrow the seed in by the window looks like.
Friday is 5 days since seed was planted. If it rains as predicted, it will certainly be a couple days before I can get in the field.
Looking like I'm gonna have to let it ride and see what happens
Oh well. Whats done is done. Will just have to see what happens. Guess I'm gonna learn (whether I wanted to or not) how well Cereal Rye and Crimson clover grow when the seeds are not covered.
Lesson learned is...
Do not broadcast seed if you're not going to have enough time to cover the seed on the same day.
With that many rainy days, or cloudy at least, I think most of it will germinate. The cooler temps will help too. If it's already germinating I would stay off of it regardless of what the weather does now. Since you tilled the area it was likely a fluffy seedbed, and that first 3 inch rain probably settled the seeds in fairly well. Keep an eye on the clover and if there are large bare areas before the rye overtakes it, you can broadcast more clover on those spots in January.
I remember helping my cousin plant rye years ago. He hired a crop duster to broadcast the rye over his beans while they were still standing. That germinated well on top of the ground.
I remember helping my cousin plant rye years ago. He hired a crop duster to broadcast the rye over his beans while they were still standing. That germinated well on top of the ground.
Ford-
I don't think germination is going to be an issue. Went out this morning and most of the rye has legs now.
To be determined is if it's gonna "till" itself in or just lay there and croak.
Yeah, I was reading about the planes broadcasting rye, and it gave me a little hope, especially since it's overcast.
We'll soon find out!
I don't think germination is going to be an issue. Went out this morning and most of the rye has legs now.
To be determined is if it's gonna "till" itself in or just lay there and croak.
Yeah, I was reading about the planes broadcasting rye, and it gave me a little hope, especially since it's overcast.
We'll soon find out!
