Small farm hay project?!

[KTGR]

I bought overgrown property, built a house a couple years ago and started a farm because I like to suffer I guess lol. There was nothing here before or it was so old it didn't count. Currently a lot of poultry and a dozen Boer goats (big meat goats) but will expand when my kids get a little older. It's like 30 acres half wooded. I have a spot in the back for hay, 2 acres. I just upgraded and got a Kubota L3902, L4802 was too big for my woods, love it. Regarding hay, I have a disc, a tiller, broad cast spreader, a drag and a roller for it. I have no rake, no baler and no way to cut it YET other than a brush hog, but I know that's less than ideal.

I just did a 2x pass with disc and followed through with a single tiller pass to clean up any sod bits. I just bought mostly orchard grass with a little red clover and alfalfa for most of it and I have a small separate area I was going to try only timothy grass. I know whatever happens I have over a year to figure out the rest now.

I was thinking of collecting it loose and piling it in a barn with the cats to start. I have forks and debris tines for my FEL and figured I could just get a rake and then plow and scoop up huge rows to haul it in. If I love doing it maybe I buy a baler later but for now I'm not that committed.

My biggest question right now is how do I cut it? I've got so much stuff to use for this project already I figured I'd give a shot. A rake is cheap, a baler isn't necessary for 2 acres and now how to cut it without breaking the bank again. Drum mowers cut so low I don't like that idea but might be wrong. Disc mowers are expensive? Or should I just check the auction sites for used sickle bar mower? Buy a new sickle bar mower?

Wondering what your thoughts might be on any of this? Thank you.

 

[super55]

You really have to look into cost analysis before investing $$ for two acres hay. But buying hay especially small squares can get pricey in a hurry.

Hay equipment typically goes along the adage you get what you pay for but for small operations older farm implements can be picked up pretty reasonably especially if you are in central lower Mi or thumb area.

Sickle bar mowers can be bought pretty cheap but they can be finicky. Drum mowers due cut low but you can put risers on them to get around a 4" cut height. A budget mower/conditioner will typically be worn out at a budget price and will need a little $$ to get in a dependable status.

Older economy balers such as a JD 14/24T, NH 68,69,273 or an IH 47 can usually big picked up for a couple grand. They may be tired but if you keep the bale density on the lighter side they will fill the niche you have.

My small square operation I use a 5' drum mower, bar hay rake and a NH 273 with a JD 32hp tractor. I wouldn't recommend getting a wheel rake, they just don't work well on smaller sized plots from my experience.

 

[LHF2019]

Don’t do it. Buy your hay. Fence it all in and do rotational grazing. Cattle goats or whatever it is you would like to do. Don’t get to many. I don’t know your area but here in NWPA if done properly you could graze late April-November weather pending. Find yourself a couple reputable hay suppliers and spend your free time enjoying your animals.

 

[bearthebruce]

If you want it, we have a sickle mower sitting in the corner of the barn. We no longer have a use for it. See this post: Road Side Mowing with a Sickle Bar

I can and will post photos if you want to see it.

We can talk price and so on if you have interest.

 

[KTGR]

@super55 Thanks for all the info. If I look at the cost analysis too much I shouldn't be doing any of this lol. The entire hobby farm thing is a total money pit. But I think it's worth doing for my family. My wife likes it and it's good for my young kids for many reasons, especially now days. If I were to look around for a sickle bar mower what older models are best to look for? I have zero experience with them. If they're all projects might have to look for a new one for compacts or see what happens if I brush hog it with the back side off so it feeds out quicker. If I figure a way to use brush a hog all I'd need to buy new was a wheel rake. That's pretty cheap to try doing hay at that point.
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@LHF2019 I would fence in more but currently I am installing as much as I can and it will be about as big as it can be without needing to clear mature forest, which I'm not interested in. The last remaining available open space is the 2 acres in the back. I don't want animals that far out for chores and I want to keep that lower traffic for deer. They love it if I'm not back there a ton. Absolute chaos in rut. I figured the deer would like the hay field during grow periods and I could supply us with some good hay.

Anyone with experience cutting a couple acres of hay with a brush hog?

 

[zzvyb6]

Where in Michigan ? I'm in Brighton. Stop buy and I will give you the low down. It's more than just an animal feed supply task because it has tax, kid education & learnings, plus self-satisfaction points and a chance to buy some great & useful tools. I just went thru the same 'edumication' course for two local gals and they are now even going to try round baling with a $1000 Vicon 4x4 machine after learning to square bale with a junk 14T (after repairs of course). They learned to swear really well (and at the appropriate times, too).

BTW: decent weedy hay is selling for $6 - $12 for square bales at the local auction in Webberville, so opportunities exist if you have neighbor(s) who just want their acreage mowed down. Training your family to repair, adjust, and resell junk equipment can also be fallout from your experience. Cash, not Venmo). Something to think about considering the apparent lack of local skills that can run a lawnmower, much less change the oil or air filter. (A decent new ExMark/Toro lawnmower is now over $15k, so 'landscaping' companies are dying like woodchucks around here...

 

[LHF2019]

Research Silvopasture. I would be curious what you are considering chores. I rotationally graze and the only chore is moving cattle every couple of days. No feeding involved. Just depends on your motives but 2 acres really is not enough to consider equipment for. Sounds like you have the deer as your animal of choice. Here the only thing deer are good for is eating what your trying to grow. Just varmints and dealt with as such.

 

[LHF2019]

Where in Michigan ? I'm in Brighton. Stop buy and I will give you the low down. It's more than just an animal feed supply task because it has tax, kid education & learnings, plus self-satisfaction points and a chance to buy some great & useful tools. I just went thru the same 'edumication' course for two local gals and they are now even going to try round baling with a $1000 Vicon 4x4 machine after learning to square bale with a junk 14T (after repairs of course). They learned to swear really well (and at the appropriate times, too).

BTW: decent weedy hay is selling for $6 - $12 for square bales at the local auction in Webberville, so opportunities exist if you have neighbor(s) who just want their acreage mowed down. Training your family to repair, adjust, and resell junk equipment can also be fallout from your experience. Cash, not Venmo). Something to think about considering the apparent lack of local skills that can run a lawnmower, much less change the oil or air filter. (A decent new ExMark/Toro lawnmower is now over $15k, so 'landscaping' companies are dying like woodchucks around here...

We are in such a depressed area here. Have a barn full of over 2000 2nd square bales at $6 and they won't move. Weed free.

 

[ericm979]

We are in such a depressed area here. Have a barn full of over 2000 2nd square bales at $6 and they won't move. Weed free.

Are people so bad off that they're getting rid of their animals? Or was last year a bumper year for hay and there's too much for the market?

What do you do with hay that doesn't sell?

 

[LHF2019]

Are people so bad off that they're getting rid of their animals? Or was last year a bumper year for hay and there's too much for the market?

What do you do with hay that doesn't sell?

They will just scrounge until they find cheap crap. Had 2nd cutting 4x4 round bales priced at $65. That is a 5% savings over squares and this year it took until Feb to start moving but once they started there was no stopping and sold out. Only had 40 some. Normally squares sell better but there are still lots of people making "hay" that will sell it at $4 or less because they just do it. They also don't put money into the fields. Just bale. We are trying to set ourselves apart. We here this often. Your hay is so nice. No weeds. So much hay in a bale. My animals clean it all up. IT IS TO EXPENSIVE. We offer 3 price points. Summer out of the field. Prebuy and store. And if surplus then winter sales. Had a regular customer that shorted herself this year out of the field. Called asked price and said wow. Haven't heard back from her. So I guess my labor fuel and time and all the other expenses that go into putting hay into the barn should not be compensated for. I would bet if I called her up and said we had hay to put in the barn she would be a no show.

We will just sell the hay next winter as well as use it to lock in customers prebuy and store orders as they come in. Maybe take the stress off some of the fields and not take a later cutting. Just depends on how this year goes.

 

[super55]

KTGR- I get it. I have had a small farm operation for about 10 years and still working on making a profit from it. But it is probably one of the best environments for raising kids teaching responsibility, perseverance and work ethic.

As for a sickle mower. Look for a 3 point and not a trailer mount. Also avoid some of the older ones with wooden pitman arms. If you have to buy new avoid the sickle and just get a drum mower. I started with a sickle for one season and then got a drum mower. Best investment I made. Cuts faster and cleaner, and is much lower maintenance.

 

[CH4Ohio]

1. Sickle mowers suck. Don't go that route.

2. If you're going to "bale" hay, buy the minimum equipment needed to do it right. OR DON'T DO IT! You can buy a cheap haybine, rake, baler, tedder, etc. You can't scratch around and pile up several acres of first cutting hay and pile it in the barn. Seems like that would just be a mess.

3. Cheapest option for cutting, in my opinion, is a haybine.

4. Whatever you buy, if it's decent, you can resell and recover your cost.

 

[KTGR]

@CH4Ohio I'm gathering that sickles do suck or a pain unless brand new. I'm not planning on baling anything unless this seed I plant grows really well in this location for a while and I enjoy it. Will look into a haybine. Picking up loose cut shouldn't be too bad I'd think. I've seen/read about people doing it as long as you have a good rake and I'd be fine buying a 4 wheel rake to row it. Then you just drive the tractor with the tines on the loader and scoop once full into trailer. 2 acres tops wouldn't be too bad I wouldn't think and I've already got almost all that stuff, not buying new dedicated equipment makes trying hay an easy pill to swallow.

We need to remember I'm feeding my own animals and would do 2 acres of hay tops. I'm not looking for the fastest or best. As long as I'm not tossing it with a pitch fork by hand most the time it can't be all bad, especially with reliable equipment right? Never done it though so could be wrong but usually not lol.

Thanks for the input, keep it coming, especially if anyone has done it the small scale / homestead route.

 

[redman135]

Hello KTGR. For hay gear, think about using a hay contractor for the first couple of years to get an idea of what is involved.
If you still want your own gear, then start with a mower and use a contractor to rake and bale the hay. For a mower I reccomend you ignore a sickle bar and go to either a drum(twin drum as lower power requirement than a single drum) or disc mower.
After that a tedder(drying) is next then a rake(row up).
Save the baler for last as that is the biggest knowledge step up and trouble source. NOTE knotters are PRESICION instruments.Learn how to strip and CLEAN throughly and reassemble meticulously and you will avoid a lot of trouble.

NOTE it costs just as much to make bad hay as it does to make good hay, so look around for a contractor or ex contractor and ask thier advice

WATER: must be year round in all paddocks. Size the system for cattle as they can drink a lot in hot weather, and use small trough with big pipes(rapid delivery) to keep the water fresh. Stock don't like green water, espesially kids calves and lambs.

Fencing: Gates: 12' or larger to fit the hay baler(chamber beside the pickup, not "in line" type).
Gate approaches: STRAIGHT line where ever possible or make the gate extra wide. Bobcat turns forbidden! Can you get a 30' trailer through your gates? If you are going to sell hay , PLAN NOW, how to get it out. If you use a lane system then angled gates are a must. Lane width and gate angle critical to paddock access. A 30' trailer has a lot of cut in. Alternative: plan gates so big gear can drive through paddocks when needed and you use the lanes system for day to day routine work.
Gates: Gudgeons: OFFSET!!! NOT in the gate way where you can gudgeon the tyres. On my 100hp tractor tyres are $1800 a pop - expensive pop! 2ndly offsetting means you can open the gate flat against the fence and latch open to stop sheep and especially lambs or kids from getting behind the gate when shifting stock.

Fences: Have you thought of using electric or power fencing for internal fences? It is cheaper than conventional fencing. Note invest time in planning your earth/ground system and you will eliminate 90% of electric fence problems. Earth systems can be remote with a lead out wire to them. Mine is about 80 yards from the mains unit in a swamp. I don't have earth problems.

note: goats are smart and can tell when the fence is not going. you won't bluff goats for long.
If you have sheep, shear them FIRST , then introduce to the electric fence as wool is a good insulator and if they get in the habit of going through an electric fence then even after shearing that habit will be hard to break.

I used to drive for a contractor and new lifestylers like you kept making the same mistakes. 10' baler DON'T FIT through 9'6" gates, and we can't do bobcat turns.
ASK yourself: What is the least manouverable vehicle you want to bring in?
How can you FUTURE PROOF your block?

Some food for thought, and hope- fully some traps avoided.
Good Luck

 

[CliffordK]

I was thinking of collecting it loose and piling it in a barn with the cats to start. I have forks and debris tines for my FEL and figured I could just get a rake and then plow and scoop up huge rows to haul it in. If I love doing it maybe I buy a baler later but for now I'm not that committed.

a baler isn't necessary for 2 acres

Ahhh, that takes me back a few years.

When my parents first bought a plot of land, mostly wooded, but with a couple of flatish acres, they decided to do hay.

I was pretty young so I don't remember all the details. We didn't have a tractor at that time. So, I think we must have had a sickle bar mower for the old Ariens rototiller.

Anyway, we managed to cut the field. And, I think with manual pitchforks we were able to pile it all up in a large pile just on the other side of the fence. Then we covered it with tarps. I don't really remember feeding from the pile, but I think pitchforks back over the fence.

It all seemed logical to me when I was in first grade. Nonetheless, we only did it one year, and the next year we bought bales of hay, and I learned to drive the pickup in the hay field in granny gear.

Hay bales are much more convenient than loose hay, and naturally stores it at a higher density. I'd probably go all or none.

I just upgraded and got a Kubota L3902

So your tractor has about 37.5 HP total and 30 to 32 HP at the PTO.

If you do decided to go with haying equipment, you'll have to look at the HP ratings of all the implements. You'll probably be OK for some smaller mowers and rakes. Just don't get a huge mower.

You'll be marginal for the balers. Some of the older balers had their own motor rather than a PTO.

 

[KTGR]

@redman135 Thanks for the input, we're running pretty small here so not even worth baling inside the current fencing, it'd be unfenced fields if we even did it, currently there would be nothing left after the goats ate it inside lol. I trenched in water last fall as well, 4ft trenching, what a nightmare lol. Interesting but 2-3 years back before getting goats we read and heard about how often they could escape. With our first does they got out immediately and were a huge pain until tons of electric was put in the next couple days. Now after a few years I can go weeks without even turning the fence on and the herd doesn't even care. I guess life must not be too bad in there lol.

@CliffordK I'd feel the same way if doing it all by hand lol. But i'm not planning on doing that. Tractors, tractors and more tractors. Can disc, spread, drag, roll, cut, rake and scoop all with a tractor. I do agree with the all of nothing thing though. Thinking now I'll try and keep it as close the nothing side as I can and see how it goes for a bit, like how well the hay grows without me needing to dump tons of fert and water on it before I commit. I already have enough stuff to do 98% of the tasks, all I don't have is a rake of some sort but those are few working parts and cheap so I can buy one of those.

So I'll be trying it the cheap way first and will take all this info into consideration if the hay growing works out well. Pretty interested in trying an old brush hog with the side cut out to cut it. I've seen someone do it and it laid it all out to the side before it got cut to much, they even bailed it after. For 2 acres or less I'll try that and call it another victory if it can work. You need to get creative or illegal to make the $$$ work in farming right?! lol

 

[wolc123]

I’d go ahead and try the brush-hog mowing and bringing in some loose hay if I was in your shoes. Hay bales aren’t all they are cracked up to be. I was around 10 years old when grandpa got a baler. Prior to that, we drew the hay in loose.

I liked the loose hay much better than the bales, and so did our old barns. The 4 ft, hand-hewn timber beam spacing under the lofts just weren’t enough for the added weight of the baled hay.

I’ve had to tear down and replace them old barns over the last few years, due in large part to that “overloading”. I did manage to save an old overhead hay fork, trolley, and monorail, from the last one that I took down.

If we ever decide to get livestock again (for now the “free” whitetail deer are giving us plenty of protein), I’ll put that back up inside our new barn and start bringing in loose hay again myself.

 

[EddieWalker]

I feel your pain. I also have some goats, and a need for hay. I've been buying it, and would love to continue buying it, but it's never reliable. Over the last ten years, I've bought good hay from different guys that ended up getting out of haying because it wasn't worth the money it cost them to make the hay.

The guy I'm buying it from now has a large cattle operation and he usually makes a lot of extra hay that he sells. If we have a dry year, he doesn't sell any hay, and I'm out looking for somebody else that has some.

Looking for hay when nobody is selling hay is just about the worse thing about having livestock. You have to have it, and everyone that does, is raising the price of it, and you never know if you are getting junk or not. There are tons of stories of hay from other states that moldy, full of weeds, and pretty much worthless. Even more stories of people paying deposits for hay that never arrives.

I have a long term plan to make my own hay. I bought a bigger tractor two years ago. It's 70hp. I'm buying another piece of land that I should have paid for in a few years that needs a bunch of work to clear the trees, take down an old house, and improve the quality of the grass.

Cheap land means lots of labor, but in the long run, it will be a good investment. By the time it's paid for, my tractor will also be paid for, and then I'll go into debt to buy brand new hay equipment. For me, I don't want to be working on fixing things when I need to be getting work done.

I have a plan B for this, and that's hiring somebody to bale it for me. That means I'm relying on somebody else, and that's what I'm trying to avoid. What happens if they never show up, move away, or just quit doing hay? The never ending hunt for somebody to do it for me is something that I'm willing to pay a lot of money to avoid.

As for fencing, I tried electric fence, but it's something that I've come to really hate. Over the years, the plastic holders for the wire have deteriorated from my East Texas sun, and become brittle. The fence was always meant to be temporary, and I've gone past the point of where it should be removed, but I'm still working on my permanent fence, and having to take time to walk and fix the electric fence.

One of the lessons that I've learned about fencing is that trees hate it. They love to drop branches on it as often as they can!!!! As I build my permanent fence, I'm taking out every tree that's close enough to it to cause me problems in the future. My neighbor has had issues with his fence being too close to trees too, so he gave me permission to take out every tree on his side of the fence that I wanted to. It's twice the work, but in the long run, it's worth it!!!

In my opinion, 2x4 horse fence is the very best fence out there for livestock. It's stupid expensive at $300 a roll for 200 feet, plus T posts, wood posts, concrete and bracing, but once it's done, it's a thing of beauty!!!! It might take another decade to get my place fenced in and have four pastures to rotate them, but it's something that I feel that I have to do. I just buy a little at a time, and work on it when I can. Like everything, it will eventually get done as long as I keep at it.

 

[scootr]

We never T post for horses. Lost a colt to a T post incident once. We use pipe posts and a top rail with the same wire. Properly installed it's a lifetime fence. got some here like that that was installed 45 yrs ago that is still tight and strong, a little rusty but good.