generator to home panel connection

   / generator to home panel connection #51  
Thank you Mace Canute, I have honestly just scanned this tread because early on I could see where it was going. Been in the field for 32 years and change and when I hear a generator running I shut the crew down until I find out what is going on. I WILL NOT let one of my guys get hurt by some stuck on stupid consumer back feeding our equipment. I do not care how long they have been out. During major system wide outages most of us are going home to a dark house as well after 18+ hour days and our wives and kids have had to fend for themselves


The storms on the coasts get all the media attention; those of us living in the northern central part of the States deal with a blizzard every few years that can shut down the electric coops or companies for 3-6 days or more. When it is either side of zero degrees outside.

In those cases, people will have backup power, or they will freeze to death.

As this country tries to go green and get rid of coal, we are going to face some seroius rolling blackouts, and the need for backup power will fall on many of our shoulders. Try to take care of livestock on a farm without electricty - water, fans, feeding augers.....

I understand the issues linemen have with this backfeeding. You shall understand the issues we consumers have when the power goes out. We are not all stupid consumers.

Any of the interlock devices need to not allow the main breaker to be 'on' whenever the backfeed is in use. It can't be something you 'remember', but it has to be a reral, physical thing that does not allow any other option - main breaker off whenever the backfeed circut is on. Period.

Transfer switches do this, the original poster's plates do this.

--->Paul
 
   / generator to home panel connection #52  
I agree with Bedlam ....I had a licensed electrician who has been in business for over 30 years hook up my Generator connection and there is no transfer switch or kit. I throw 3 switches off in one of the electical boxes on the side of the house and I am completely disconnected from the grid. When I do it ..all power in my house goes off. Then I plug in my generator which is wired directly into the 2 main panels " inside " my house and power up. It is just that simple and there is no way for any back feed of power to take place since I am off the grid. If those main panels on the outside of the house are not safe then I would have never received a certificate of occupancy and would have failed the final building inspection. If we have reached the point in this country where we can't trust electrical panel boxes and the switches in them that are installed when we build our houses then we are indeed in trouble. As far as someone being so stupid as to not know to flip the switches off before they fire up their generator then we should not let anyone drive a car or truck or fly airplanes etc. anymore...Just saying....LOL...Everyone has their oppinion and all comments are appreciated but I will go with a licensed electrician with 30+ years experience who installed it...
 
   / generator to home panel connection #53  
A question for those who transfer there whole load with some sort of set up other than a automatic transfer switch,, How do you tell when the utility power has returned ??
 
   / generator to home panel connection #54  
A question for those who transfer there whole load with some sort of set up other than a automatic transfer switch,, How do you tell when the utility power has returned ??


Look and see if the neighbor's lights are on?
 
   / generator to home panel connection #55  
If you have them close enough.I usually have ti drive down the street and even then dont know as so many have generators now.
 
   / generator to home panel connection #56  
"If those main panels on the outside of the house are not safe then I would have never received a certificate of occupancy and would have failed the final building inspection."

brin, I went to Internet Archive: Free Download: Georgia Electrical Code and downloaded the PDF file. In it I found the following under Optional Standby Systems. I won't print out everything, but I think the following covers the pertinent points. :) (I tried to not leave anything out).

Transfer equipment shall be suitable for the intended use and designed and installed so as to prevent the inadvertent interconnection of normal and alternate
sources of supply in any operation of the transfer equipment.

Transfer equipment shall be required for all standby
systems subject to the provisions of this article and for
which an electric-utility supply is either the normal or
standby source.

Exception: Temporary connection of a portable generator
without transfer equipment shall be permitted where conditions of maintenance and supervision ensure that only qualified persons service the installation and where the normal supply is physically isolated by a lockable disconnect means or by disconnection of the normal supply conductors.

Transfer Switch. An automatic or nonautomatic device for
transferring one or more load conductor connections from
one power source to another.

Qualified Person. One who has skills and knowledge related to the construction and operation of the electrical
equipment and installations and has received safety training on the hazards involved.

FPN: Refer to NFPA 70E-2004, Standard for Electrical
Safety in the Workplace, for electrical safety training
requirements.

So it appears you have two choices...a real transfer switch or equipment and personal that meets the requirement of the "Exception" rule. You're not using a transfer switch so you would by default fall under the "Exception" rule. This is pretty specific in that it states first and foremost that only a Qualified Person is allowed to operate the lockable disconnect or disconnect the normal supply conductors. From your post, I suspect you are a home owner, and not an electrician let alone one who has also received safety training on the hazards involved per NFPA 70E-2004 and hence legally able to operate your system. I would also suspect your electrician was not fully cognizant of the code requirements for the temporary connection of a portable generator. Ditto for the inspector who did the final building inspection.

Should the worst case scenario come to happen, you may be in for a heap of trouble and none of it your fault, since it appears you went the distance and hired an electrician to do the work. Lots of people get caught up in litigation not because they did anything wrong or are a fault. You know the old saying about when the s**t hits the fan, everybody around gets covered, eh! :eek:

"If we have reached the point in this country where we can't trust electrical panel boxes and the switches in them that are installed when we build our houses then we are indeed in trouble."

I've seen in several stores, recall notices for household breakers. Some were just plain bad, some were counterfeit. Google "recall of breakers" and lots of information comes up. It is scary! You can't even really trust a breaker to open up on an overload every time. Some don't. I know of one electrician who prefer fuses over breakers for protection of equipment for just this reason, and I have personally seen several fuses that were manufactured wrong in that their actual rating was a LOT higher than their marked rating. (non failed ones from the batch were tested).

"As far as someone being so stupid as to not know to flip the switches off before they fire up their generator then we should not let anyone drive a car or truck or fly airplanes etc."

Sad to say, there ARE people that stupid....I've had the "luck":rolleyes: of working with some of them. There are also people with Alzheimer's Disease. And people with bad memories. And what about the ones who would do it deliberately? And sometimes, Brain Farts happen!:eek::eek:

Well, a long winded post for sure!:eek: I hope it sheds some light on the topic!:)
 
   / generator to home panel connection #57  
Thanks for reinforcing the importance of my job as an Electrical Inspector. People DO get killed because of setups just like many here think that are "just fine". In most localities in the U.S what you are planning to do is extremely illegal and dangerous. Simply because it's even possible for an idiot homeowner to forget to kill the incoming Main breaker. In this case, you would be also "back-feeding" power onto the electrical grid and could conceivably electrocute a power company lineman who believes that the power has been cut.

The only safe, legal, way to provide power to your home breaker panel from a generator is to use an approved transfer switch, professionally installed, which makes it impossible to have power from the generator feed back into the power grid.

In some areas the penalties for back-feeding power are so draconian that you could easily lose your home. Don't do this, EVER!
 
   / generator to home panel connection #59  
"....I had a licensed electrician who has been in business for over 30 years hook up my Generator connection and there is no transfer switch or kit."

I fail installations nearly every week done by guys with "years" in the bussiness.
 
   / generator to home panel connection #60  
OK - OK guys...& thanks Mace Canute for your info and all the rest of you as well. I have the electrician coming back out and will share all of this information with him this coming Tuesday and will let you all know what the resolution is.. I have lived long enough to know that there is a lot I don't know but I am a good listener..Thanks you all for your opinions and help and it has not fallen on deaf ears.

Update: Remember guys in my earlier posts I referred to two panel boxes on the back of my house ? one was sealed and only accessible to electric co. and the other is where I had my switches..Well, I should have looked a little more carefully but keep in mind I only replace light bulbs as far as my electric ability so cut me some slack here..LOL..anyway check the link below that is similar to the other panel I have outside my house. also remember when I built this house a few years ago I had the electrician set it up for a back up generator - comments always welcome.

Here is the link> http://www.electricgeneratorsdirect.com/images.php?products_id=1125
 
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