GC Charging System Troubleshooting

[mgstevens]

Wondering what you folks know about the links in the charging system for a GC(2410)? I got my tractor and the charging light was on in the dash (and the battery needed boosting..). I replaced the alternator and the light went out. I tested the battery, which seems like the original factory unit in a 2009 machine (Delkor NX-100-S6MF), and it tested fine. Immediately after installing the new alternator, I multi-meter tested the input to the battery and it was only 12.4V, which puzzled/dismayed me, but the engine has started every time since installing the new alternator - until today.

:grumpy:

I've needed a battery charger - something I've only ever borrowed the few times I've needed it - and so went out and got an "intelligent" charger with a 75A start option. The charger shows the percentage of the battery, which was about 50%, and also shows battery quality (roughly..) and it says this one is OK.

Bottom line is that it looks like the new alternator is not charging the battery. Now I'm looking for potential causes of non-charging, besides the alternator. Electrical ground points, other charging system elements? Along with that, a DIY way to test the new alternator, if anyone knows one. The alternator turned off the charging dash light, but the original meter test and todays results tell the real tale. I have a charging system problem to solve.

Any ideas appreciated.

 

[irvingj]

Not sure about the 2410s, but the 2310s (mine was one of the last years they made them, 2007; 2410s were already available at that time) were notorious for having a ground strap --actually a stranded cable-- that was too short to allow for the normal vibration of a 3-cylinder diesel.

As a result the strands would break, one by one, until the last one went. At that point, "everything" electrical --gauges, lights, etc.-- would seem to be OK, but it wouldn't crank the starter. In that case, it was the fact that all the other grounds weren't capable of carrying the several hundred amps required for the starter to run, but would work for OK for light loads. (It was on this forum, in fact, that it was suggested I check the ground cable.)

BUT -- the problem is two-fold: not only can juice not get OUT of the battery when that cable's bad, but guess what: charging current back IN to the battery was also limited.

Perhaps your problem is different, but you might want to check your heavy ground cable carefully. It's goes from the engine block, just below the oil filter, to the frame in the left front. I had been thinking my battery was going bad, or the tractor was having issues, because it had been getting gradually harder to start. Once I found the real culprit, it started like it did when it was new. I also added a second ground cable on the other side for insurance. And I'm still on my original battery.....

 

[WranglerX]

Don't know what you actual issue is, but "grounding" things properly is major issue that is often overlooked..... There have been several instance where the comment has been made "battery cable(s) look good".... BUT LATER it was discovered that internal corrosion just about killed whole electrical system but nothing visible externally......

Not sure how your system is wires but there should be diagram in owners manual..... On my GC 1715 the alternator output goes directly to a 40 amp fuse, first thing I would verify is that fuse is good, if yours is wired similarly...

Dale

 

[cdaigle430]

Wondering what you folks know about the links in the charging system for a GC(2410)? I got my tractor and the charging light was on in the dash (and the battery needed boosting..). I replaced the alternator and the light went out. I tested the battery, which seems like the original factory unit in a 2009 machine (Delkor NX-100-S6MF), and it tested fine. Immediately after installing the new alternator, I multi-meter tested the input to the battery and it was only 12.4V, which puzzled/dismayed me, but the engine has started every time since installing the new alternator - until today.

:grumpy:

I've needed a battery charger - something I've only ever borrowed the few times I've needed it - and so went out and got an "intelligent" charger with a 75A start option. The charger shows the percentage of the battery, which was about 50%, and also shows battery quality (roughly..) and it says this one is OK.

Bottom line is that it looks like the new alternator is not charging the battery. Now I'm looking for potential causes of non-charging, besides the alternator. Electrical ground points, other charging system elements? Along with that, a DIY way to test the new alternator, if anyone knows one. The alternator turned off the charging dash light, but the original meter test and todays results tell the real tale. I have a charging system problem to solve.

Any ideas appreciated.

You may have had two issues-one the alternator which you fixed and two-the battery. Have you done a load test on the battery? On the charging system? If its true and you battery is original then you are on borrowed time for battery life anyway.

I know with cars, if you put a new alternator in with a dead battery this can result in "alternator death".

I always keep my GC2410 on a battery tender especially in the winter. Got mine in 2010 and still on original battery as well. I know its time for a new one cause I can only get three cranks out of it.

 

[mgstevens]

Thanks for all comments so far... First, I will test the 40A slow-blow fuses with a test light. Second, I looked at the schematic diagram for grounds and see a total of three: 1) Battery to chassis, 2) alternator to chassis and 3) bulk ground, which is used for all other non-chassis ground items, I suspect. Engine-stop relay, engine-stop solenoid, fuel pump, fuel gauge, headlights, starter relay, dash display, tail light relay, flasher.. all from this third ground point.

I can trace the grounds from battery (black wire to chassis) and alternator (direct contact to chassis via mount bracket?). I will also look for the stranded ground mentioned by Irving above (particularly if I can understand where to find it - access-wise..), which if still used could be the third one listed in the schematic. If anyone knows how this third ground physically links to everything, please describe it here.

I fully charged the battery yesterday and haven't started it yet, but will do test-light and multi-meter testing today.

And yes, the battery shows it's green "dot" and performed well in a load test. Although it's interesting that the day before it did not start, I had started it 3 or four times. Was that what you meant by "only get three cranks?"

 

[cdaigle430]

3 time consecutively.

 

[mgstevens]

3 time consecutively.

Is that three "crank and start the engine" cycles, or three attempts to crank the engine for one start?

 

[mgstevens]

So, an update... First test was for the fuses. The 40A slow-blow fuses defy a test light and so it was a continuity test that revealed that one of the two 40A fuses was gone. Looked fine, and when reviewing the charging problem before purchase, I tried to test the fuses, but the owner did not have a working test meter. Then a neighbour came over and with his "years of experience" said the cause of the charging light issue was the alternator. It's possible I did not need to replace the alternator, but oh well...

Once the new $4 fuse was installed, 14.5 volts at the battery!

I can only hope every issue I encounter is solved this quickly, and without me missing it the first time.. :guilty:

Thanks for the advice.

 

[Jaylegger]

Time for a beer or two.

Curious though, where exactly are these fuses??

 

[mgstevens]

Just finished the first... :drink:

If I have the second, I won't be fit to remove the backhoe and reseal the hydro drain plug. Decisions, decisions..:confused2:

 

[WranglerX]

On my 1715 one is between alternator output and stud on starter and other fuse is from stud on starter to rest of tractors electrical system.... Stud on starter is also connection point for positive battery cable... My guess since both tractors are made by ISEKI and similar in size they would wire about the same.... The fuses on my 1715 are located right next to battery on right side from drivers seat....

Dale

 

[mgstevens]

Curious though, where exactly are these fuses??

Throttle side of engine compartment, next to battery. See image below.

 

[ray66v]

GC starters, and alternators, are not prone to failure. So, I caution anyone with an issue to not jump to that conclusion.

Throwing parts at a problem, can be very costly. It's very easy to have starters and alternators tested, before replacing them. Most auto parts stores, and all re-builders can do this for you.

If you are close to one, a local re-builder can also repair them for a fraction of the cost of OEM replacements, which is priced at a ridiculous level.

 

[mgstevens]

Ray, I'm trying to figure out if you are offering advice here, or moral superiority :scratchchin:. This is the second thread I've started looking for advice and I end up getting a little lecture from you. I really don't need it, nor want it.

I was advised by someone connected to the seller, who claimed to have "tons of tractor experience" that the alternator was the issue. I wanted to test the fuses, but did not get to in the two hours I had to assess this machine after a 900 mile one way drive. Then I asked around in my small town market and there was no available alternator testing facility - nor rebuilding. As it is, I paid half of the dealer price, after negotiating a discount for the full dealer price of the alternator, and if I made a hasty "parts-throwing" move, I'll whip myself on my own schedule. You seem to have a flair for stating the obvious, but in a sanctimonious way. I may have no experience with this class of tractor, but I did not fall off a turnip truck yesterday.

If you have an aversion to noobs :newhere:, be my guest and choose another thread for your attention. You don't seem to have much empathy for someone with a lot to learn.

Sorry to blast (I'm Canadian, eh! We are expected to have manners...) but I came here for friendly support, and if that is in short supply (it's mostly not) I can get my advice somewhere else.

 

[ray66v]

Ray, I'm trying to figure out if you are offering advice here, or moral superiority :scratchchin:. This is the second thread I've started looking for advice and I end up getting a little lecture from you. I really don't need it, nor want it.

I was advised by someone connected to the seller, who claimed to have "tons of tractor experience" that the alternator was the issue. I wanted to test the fuses, but did not get to in the two hours I had to assess this machine after a 900 mile one way drive. Then I asked around in my small town market and there was no available alternator testing facility - nor rebuilding. As it is, I paid half of the dealer price, after negotiating a discount for the full dealer price of the alternator, and if I made a hasty "parts-throwing" move, I'll whip myself on my own schedule. You seem to have a flair for stating the obvious, but in a sanctimonious way. I may have no experience with this class of tractor, but I did not fall off a turnip truck yesterday.

If you have an aversion to noobs :newhere:, be my guest and choose another thread for your attention. You don't seem to have much empathy for someone with a lot to learn.

Sorry to blast (I'm Canadian, eh! We are expected to have manners...) but I came here for friendly support, and if that is in short supply (it's mostly not) I can get my advice somewhere else.

Unlike your post, my post was not personal.

People read these threads looking for answers to their problems. And, members give advice to them.

This is why I said, " I caution anyone not to jump to that conclusion". Though I fat fingered "anyone" and misspelled it, the meaning was clear. My post was a warning to those in the future, who may read this thread when they have this, or a similar problem, so, hopefully they can avoid this mistake. You had already gone past that point, another clue that my advice was not directed specifically to you.

You are always welcome to not read my posts, or use the member blocking feature if you don't want to see them.

Sorry, you didn't like it.

 

[MF RED in MT]

Ray, I'm trying to figure out if you are offering advice here, or moral superiority :scratchchin:. This is the second thread I've started looking for advice and I end up getting a little lecture from you. I really don't need it, nor want it.

I was advised by someone connected to the seller, who claimed to have "tons of tractor experience" that the alternator was the issue. I wanted to test the fuses, but did not get to in the two hours I had to assess this machine after a 900 mile one way drive. Then I asked around in my small town market and there was no available alternator testing facility - nor rebuilding. As it is, I paid half of the dealer price, after negotiating a discount for the full dealer price of the alternator, and if I made a hasty "parts-throwing" move, I'll whip myself on my own schedule. You seem to have a flair for stating the obvious, but in a sanctimonious way. I may have no experience with this class of tractor, but I did not fall off a turnip truck yesterday.

If you have an aversion to noobs :newhere:, be my guest and choose another thread for your attention. You don't seem to have much empathy for someone with a lot to learn.

Sorry to blast (I'm Canadian, eh! We are expected to have manners...) but I came here for friendly support, and if that is in short supply (it's mostly not) I can get my advice somewhere else.

So sad to see this kind of post, you really owe ray66v an apology.

KC

 

[WranglerX]

Ray, I'm trying to figure out if you are offering advice here, or moral superiority :scratchchin:. This is the second thread I've started looking for advice and I end up getting a little lecture from you. I really don't need it, nor want it.

I was advised by someone connected to the seller, who claimed to have "tons of tractor experience" that the alternator was the issue. I wanted to test the fuses, but did not get to in the two hours I had to assess this machine after a 900 mile one way drive. Then I asked around in my small town market and there was no available alternator testing facility - nor rebuilding. As it is, I paid half of the dealer price, after negotiating a discount for the full dealer price of the alternator, and if I made a hasty "parts-throwing" move, I'll whip myself on my own schedule. You seem to have a flair for stating the obvious, but in a sanctimonious way. I may have no experience with this class of tractor, but I did not fall off a turnip truck yesterday.

If you have an aversion to noobs :newhere:, be my guest and choose another thread for your attention. You don't seem to have much empathy for someone with a lot to learn.

Sorry to blast (I'm Canadian, eh! We are expected to have manners...) but I came here for friendly support, and if that is in short supply (it's mostly not) I can get my advice somewhere else.

Don't think you should be on internet, it only a observation was put forth by Ray, don't understand why you got so butt hurt.... Apology would be appropriate....

No disrespect intended here...

Dale

 

[ray66v]

No apology necessary.

The OP is frustrated, and I can understand that.

 

[irvingj]

You made a good point, Ray; it's easy to forget that these posts can --and likely will-- be read by someone in the future who could benefit from experiences & observations.

And yes, I've not heard of an alternator going bad (yet) on these tractors. At least Mr. Stevens got a good deal on the one he bought!


(PS, Ray -- did you catch that above? Still on my OEM battery!! )

 

[ray66v]

Yes, 20 years from now someone will read this thread.

And, their first thought will no doubt be, Did Irving ever buy a new battery?

The answer will of course be, NO!