GC 2600

[Dan the roofer]

Hi all hope everyone is staying safe!
I changed the oil on my 54 inch mid mount mower and my 2360 front mount snowblower and I used the permatran 821 xl to refill. Is this ok?
Thanks.
Danny.

 

[MF RED in MT]

Hi Danny,

I cannot help you with any fluid information about your 54" mid mower because I only have a brush hog for my mowing.

The MF 2360 Snowblower takes AGMA 5EP extreme pressure oil, SAE 80W90 gear oil or equivalent, which you will find at the bottom of page 21, at the bottom of this post.

The MF Permatran 821XL is for the transmission/hydraulic system of your tractor.

KC

Below is Page 20 & page 21, "Maintenance" for the MF 2360 Snowblower manual I have from 2009:

 

[irvingj]

On both the MMM and the blower... Yeah, that's a gearbox, and needs gear oil (GP 90, etc).

Hydraulic fluid, if that's what you put in, is far too lightweight. Get it out of there.

 

[ray66v]

On both the MMM and the blower... Yeah, that's a gearbox, and needs gear oil (GP 90, etc).

Hydraulic fluid, if that's what you put in, is far too lightweight. Get it out of there.

Actually, the hydraulic transmission fluid and the 80W-90 gear lube, are about the same viscosity.

The transmission fluid, and the gear oil are measured on two different scales. So, people tend to mistakenly believe the gear lube is thicker.

Viscosities vary widely by brand, but both are about 30W on the motor oil scale.

Both products are in fact, light weight gear oil. The big difference between them is the additives.

The transmission oil doesn't just have to protect the transmission gears, it also has to operate the hydraulics, and the brakes. So, it has additives for all those to work better too.

The hydraulic transmission oil is designed to work in gear boxes like the front differential, or a gear box. But, those hypoid gears are best protected by EP, (extreme pressure), rated gear lube, that's what it was specifically designed for.

Look for that EP designation when you chose your product. Not all gear oil is rated that high.

ATTACH=CONFIG]653390[/ATTACH]

 

[DMW]

Strictly speaking, specialized gear oils are better at what they do. Permatran is a GL4 rated fluid, also a suitable gear oil. GL4 will not have the same EP additive package as the gear oil, generally it will not last as long.
Would I use THF in the gear boxes? Why not. Just include them in the scheduled maintenance with other fluid changes on the tractor (hydro/front axle).

The best reason to go to a heavier gear oil is if the seals start weeping. The higher viscosity gear oil will either solve the problem, or reduce it enough so that it can be ignored for another couple years.

 

[MF RED in MT]

ray is correct, my tractor manual says "MF Permatran lll" for the front axle recommended lubricant on page 53.

This is what I have chosen to use since my first change out of fluids in my MF tractors front axle, my MF snowblower, and my Woods brush hog is Amsoil's Synthetic 80W-90 Gear Lube.

Page 53, of my 2009 MF tractor manual is attached below:

KC

View attachment Page 53 Tractor Manual.pdf

 

[Dan the roofer]

Thanks guys, I guess I should have asked before I did the deed! I had figured since the call for the permatran in the front diff that it was good to use as gear oil. I realize it is a thinner oil but I figured with what they charge for it it would be magical or something�� I appreciate the info. K.C. You came through once again!
Danny.

 

[ray66v]

Thanks guys, I guess I should have asked before I did the deed! I had figured since the call for the permatran in the front diff that it was good to use as gear oil. I realize it is a thinner oil but I figured with what they charge for it it would be magical or something�� I appreciate the info. K.C. You came through once again!
Danny.

The Permatran is NOT thinner. See my last post.

Most hydraulic transmission oil is about 30W on the motor oil scale, (exception being the Kubota fluid). That means it is about the same viscosity (at normal temps) as the 80W-90 gear oil.

I would leave the Permatran in there now. It works just fine. Change to the gear oil next time.

 

[Dan the roofer]

The Permatran is NOT thinner. See my last post.

I would leave the Permatran in there now. It works just fine. Change to the gear oil next time.

Thanks ray, I did read your post but only after I wrote mine , I hadn’t noticed other people had responded. I will leave the permatran for the season. I’m not in the garage now but I’m anxious to read the bottle tomorrow to see if it has an ep rating. I do have confidence that it is fine to use as gear oil because that’s what it does in the tractor as you said. The front diff and the transmission have gears under extreme pressure so it’s essential performing the same function as a gearbox.
Thanks for your input.
Danny.

 

[irvingj]

As usual, Ray, thanks for the education!

I have, per the manual, used hydraulic fluid in the front axle, though with some reservations, but can't say that I've had any problems with that. Always GP90 in the gearboxes of the blower & MMM, but had no idea hydraulic fluid was so similar and could be used.

Learn sump'n new every day.

 

[DMW]

I'm bored, looked into this some. Found a post from 2006 when my industrial lube courses were still fresh in my mind. Do not try to find an ISO 220EP, or AGMA 5 gear oil. They are industrial classifications, and the smallest container available is probably a 5 gallon pail. This leaves a SAE 50 motor oil (not a option) or a SAE 90 gear oil (or suitable multigrade).
The Permatran is an API GL4 rated gear oil, with EP additives (that's why its used in the front axle). GL4 fluids are the lost common gear oils in the world. It is approx. a SAE 30 oil. The "thinner" oil my be more likely to seep from the gear box seals. Lubrication fluids have gotten a lot better in the 20 years since that manual was originally published. I don't know how to link to the page.

Half of the lubrication is derived from the EP additive package that gets used up with use, the other half, the oil. Oil thins out as it is used ( shear). It gets thicker (sludge) from contamination, usually water. The quality of the additive package combats this, and is reflected in the price. The use of a GL4 rated fluid with an annual change shouldn't hurt any internals. Even the dealer would look at you funny if you wanted to change the gear box oil every year. These attachments on our SCUTs are only slightly more robust than walk behinds, "extreme" service is relative. Some owners are religious about maintenance, 50% have probably never changed their blower or mower deck oil, 25% have never checked the level, 10% probably don't even realize there is oil in the gear boxes. A lot of this is built into the recommendations.
You're way ahead of the curve. There are lots of valid opinions, just be aware to location,weather conditions, length of use, storage, that the equipment will be operated in. There can be significant differences between users.

 

[MF RED in MT]

On another maintenance item for these GC tractors is the MF manuals listing of yearly replacement of the engine coolant because I normally put 50-65 hours annually on my tractor.

I have changed this fluid every year in the fall season mainly because MF designed the removal of this anti freeze fluid really simple.

KC

 

[ray66v]

The Original GC2300 manual recommends Permatran 3, -OR- SAE 80 GL4 in the transmission.

SAE80 GL4 is, 80W gear lube.

The reason you could interchange them is on the most basic level, they are the SAME thing, a 30W oil, (when they are both measured on the engine oil scale).

Probably the reason they no longer recommend the 80W gear oil in a GC, is because the wet brakes do have specific additives.

The myth that 80W, or 80W-90 gear oil is thicker, is a stubborn one.

 

[ray66v]

On another maintenance item for these GC tractors is the MF manuals listing of yearly replacement of the engine coolant because I normally put 50-65 hours annually on my tractor.

I have changed this fluid every year in the fall season mainly because MF designed the removal of this anti freeze fluid really simple.

KC

I stopped this practice.

Putting only 30 or so hours a year on my tractor, I cannot justify removing what amounts to brand new antifreeze every year, and replacing it. I also can't find any scientific reason for me to follow that recommendation.

I buy a quality heavy duty diesel coolant, and have been replacing it every three years. It still looks clean, and tests good for SCA additive, even at that point.

And, it's also not a pleasure to perform this task on a generation one GC.

 

[MF RED in MT]

I stopped this practice.

Putting only 30 or so hours a year on my tractor, I cannot justify removing what amounts to brand new antifreeze every year, and replacing it. I also can't find any scientific reason for me to follow that recommendation.

I buy a quality heavy duty diesel coolant, and have been replacing it every three years. It still looks clean, and tests good for SCA additive, even at that point.

And, it's also not a pleasure to perform this task on a generation one GC.

I understand, but for me I have a 20 year old hunting truck that requires a little anti freeze and oil from time to time and it inherits the MF old anti freeze.

Also, the wife won't ride in this truck since the passengers seat has a thick coat of German Shepherd shedding hair, and I sure that's just fine with the dog.

KC

 

[DMW]

I also extend the drain interval, engine hours rather than by year, but then I don't have a use for the drained coolant. Novel approach KC, I like it.
Another reason for frequent changes of coolant is the things you can't see, cavitation on the cylinder wall. Excellent video, with an easy to understand explanation. Stats at 12:45.

 

[Dan the roofer]

I also extend the drain interval, engine hours rather than by year, but then I don't have a use for the drained coolant. Novel approach KC, I like it.
Another reason for frequent changes of coolant is the things you can't see, cavitation on the cylinder wall. Excellent video, with an easy to understand explanation. Stats at 12:45.

I guess I should change my coolant as I have no idea when it was done last. First do I need to use a special Diesel engine coolant or is standard automotive coolant ok? Secondly what痴 the procedure, is the drain on the rad Or do I just remove the little plug on the left side and drain it from there?
Thanks in advance K.C.

 

[Dan the roofer]

I guess I should change my coolant as I have no idea when it was done last. First do I need to use a special Diesel engine coolant or is standard automotive coolant ok? Secondly whatç—´ the procedure, is the drain on the rad Or do I just remove the little plug on the left side and drain it from there?
Thanks in advance K.C.

When I remove the drain plug will the plastic overflow drain also?

 

[Dan the roofer]

Two more questions! Do you do a 50/50 mix and how much will I need?

 

[MF RED in MT]

Thanks DMW, did not know about how Diesels operated with coolant.

Danny, here are the MF manual page 52 for specifications & capacities; and page 58 step by step for coolant system R&R.

KC

And here is a link to Napa and the 50/50 anti freeze I use, many more brands out there:

https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/NAFRTU1EXT

View attachment GC2410 Manual P.52 Specifications & Capacities.pdf View attachment GC2410 Manual P..58 Cooling System.pdf