Garage Heat

[kiphorn]

I just moved into our new home back in August. It has a 24'x30' garage that is attached to the house by a mud room. I insulated the walls and ceilings but there is no heat in the garage. I didn't really think about the heat until yesterday.

We've had an unusual winter here in central PA. Its been below freezing for with the exception of 1 or 2 days for about 3 weeks or so. Its a balmy 7 degrees this morning.

Yesterday, I noticed that my utility sink spigot had ice hanging down from the opening. I turned on both faucets but didn't get a drip. I turned off the water in the basement before I had a real problem and will get out the hair dryer this afternoon (if I have time as they are predicting another 6-8" of the snow).

My question. Does anyone have any recommendations for heating the garage? I don't want to heat for the entire winter, just during the periods when the temps drop below 25 degrees for extended periods of time.

The Hot-Dawg modine looks nice but the unit appears to around $500 (plus another couple hundred for installation) and its probably more than I need. I also saw the Mr. Heater infra-red heaters and plain old vent-less wall mount heaters.

The modine and the Mr. heater have the advantage of being up out of the way. The wall mount ventless concerns me because I know the wife or kids will inevitably place something in front of the heater that will burn the house down. I want heat not fire and preferably not at the expense of the house?

So any thoughts or experiences would be appreciated. I currently heat off propane, so that would be the fuel of choice.

Thanks,

Kip

 

[Deerlope]

The small Monitnor heater is the best money you could ever spend for something like that. They are either propane or Kerosene. They do use a vent and the unit looks like a small clothes hamper sitting near the wall. Check them out.

 

[thcri]

Do not get a heater that does not have a vent. Especially if you insulated and sealed it up. I like the Modine and Reznors as you can get them up out of your way. Another thing I would watch out for is running a unit heater way down around 30 constantly may not be good for it. You may find condensation in the heat exchanger. We sell about 50 of them a year. The optional stat we get goes down to 40.

murph

 

[BillyP]

Rinnai ventless radiant propane heater. It'll heat a garage for next to nothing.

 

[Rch]

I just finished installing a 75K BTU Reznor for a 24' X 32" 2 story gambrel barn /workshop. It's propane powered, hangs from the ceiling downstairs with a powered vent out the side wall and a seperated outside air intake.

Reznor propane ceiling heater

I hung it, brought 110 V to the cabinet, installed the flue and intake. Propane was in the building nearby. The HVAC did the rest, including a Honeywell wall thermostat.

$800 for the heater, about $200 for the other parts, including thermostat and $270 in labor to the HVAC guys.

The building is up to temp in 12- 15 minutes. Downstairs is finished off with fiberglass batt/ plywood and 2d story Isocyinene spray foam under the roof

 

[Junkman]

If what you want is just something to take the chill off for the occasional time that you are out there, go for the least expensive heater that you can find, because fuel use won't be an issue.
If you are going to use it all the time, go for a better unit. If you garage has well insulated doors and they are sealing properly, the heat will stay in. If they are made of wood or a lesser quality metal door, then the heat will just go out the doors even when they are closed. Everything will depend on how you use the garage. If the doors are left open for a long period of time, then the walls will get cold and will stay cold. If you don't open them often, it should retain some heat.
I installed a better quality insulated metal garage doors a couple of years ago and the garage temperature stays above freezing no matter what the outside temperatures have been so far this winter. I know this because the soda hasn't frozen and it has been out there all winter. I have one bottle of seltzer laying on its side as my "thermometer". If I see that it is even getting slushy, I will remove all the items that can freeze, until then everything is fine. The garage has one wall that is attached to the house, but I doubt that any heat gets past the 6" fiberglass bats and the 2" Styrofoam insulation over that. Then it has 3/4" fire rated sheet rock and plaster on top of the Styrofoam. The other 3 walls are also well insulated in a similar fashion..... Even the floor has Styrofoam insulation under the concrete. I also don't have to open the doors too often.... but that is in another thread... /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif If I were going to heat it, I would go the route that Rch did in the above post... It appears to be a fine unit. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[thcri]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Rinnai ventless radiant propane heater. It'll heat a garage for next to nothing. )</font>

Even though a lot of retailers sell the ventless heaters they are illegal in most states. I would never install a ventless heater in a garage that is sealed up tight. Has nothing to do with how fast it heats, it is how fast you can get carbon monoxide poisoning from it. My insurance company at work does not allow us to install any non vented type heaters because of the problelms out there, I don't care what brand they are.

Just my opinion and experiences.

murph

 

[BillyP]

We've used two different brands of ventless heaters, over the past 10 years. Both were installed by my gas company. I've had no problems with either.

If a person was leery of ventless heat, I would certainly look elsewhere. I'm not...Just my opinion and from experiences.

 

[Junkman]

The vent-less heaters of today have more safety features installed on them than you would want to deal with if you had to trouble shoot a unit. They are safe and are approved by many states. The one downside is that propane heat causes condensation to form unless they are vented. For a garage where you are not going to be living in it and you can and will be opening the doors, they serve the purpose that they are intended to. If you are overly concerned, then install a second carbon monoxide detector. You should already have one in there anyway.... Also consider a gas detection device in the event of a propane leak. Propane falls to the floor and natural gas rises to the ceiling. There are separate detectors for each type of gas..

 

[PineRidge]

Kip If you want a good garage heater then Reznor is the way to go. Natural gas or propane fired its a super heater. The one shown is 75,000 BTU and will make my 24 X 36 pole barn comfy warm 15 minutes after I turn it on. It's the best block heater for any tractor that money can buy. Cold weather starts are no problem if you install one of these puppies.

 

[thcri]

Sorry Pine,

But if you want the best, then this is what you need. By far the best and most efficient, you just have to plan before you pour your concrete floor.

 

[PineRidge]

Murph can't make it out from the picture, is that Wirsbo? I like it but you need anti-freeze to keep the system from freezing if your not heating all the time. And recovery is lousy for an area such as a pole barn where doors are opening and closing all the time. But for a home, now that's another story, it's premo there. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[Junkman]

Is that white circle on the back wall an opening for the chimney for the wood stove???? /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif

 

[thcri]

For the life of me I don't know what the back circle is. Attached is another picture that doesn't show it. I wonder if it is light shining on the wall from something else.

Pine as far as slow, yes it is slow at getting there but it does hold for a long time. I can turn it off when it is 60 inside and 10 below outside and even with taking cars out and in and opening doors the temperature will not drop more than 3 degrees per day due to the heat built up in the cement. As far as a leaky space. You have that problem even with any heat. In the fall or the first time I turn the heat on it takes about 3 hours before I start to feel heat coming out of the concrete. To raise from say 55 to 60 it takes about two hours. At 50 degrees you can lay on the concrete floor working in a T shirt as the temp of the concrete is pretty warm. It can be 100 at times and that is why it is so nice. You have that warm air rising over you. But I usually just leave mine on all winter. It doesn't really cost that much to run. I also have ice melt on the front sidewalk for melting snow and ice. And yes you should have anti-freeze in it. If you keep it running I know some of my competitors don't put the anit-freeze in it. But alls it takes is a pump to go bad and then you could get into trouble. But you would have a couple days to fix it because of the heat in the concrete.

murph

 

[thcri]

We also have the Wirsbo systems in a automobile repair shop next to our office. He has two large doors big enough for semi's that are both opening 6 times a day and even times when they stay open for twenty minutes or so. Close the doors and as long as you have everything warmed up already the air temp does recover fast.

murph

 

[PineRidge]

Murph I agree with you if you heat your pole barn all winter long then Wirsbo is indeed the best solution. Most guys I know including myself only put the heat on however when we go out to the shed to work. Right now here in Ohio it's 21F but I know that if I flip the stat to heat it will be nice to work in 15 minutes. And once I'm done I shut the stat back off. My pole barn is insulated to the max but I don't see any sense in heating my building if I'm not out in it.

Sounds to me like you enjoy your system though. Having that heat radiate from the concrete floor sounds like a great way to keep warm. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

How big is your barn and what size water boiler did you install to handle the heat loss?

 

[JJT]

Kip, If you have heat in the breezeway, is there any way to run a duct or 2 into the garage? I have a 1000 sw ft attached garage that stays above freezing with only 2 6" heat ducts. If I'm working in the garage, I'll run the 110K btu Kerosene fueled salamander. It will bring temps up 40 degrees in 15 minutes. If I'm going to run it for long I'll open a window a few inches. I have a CO monitor in the garage and I've only set it off once in 8 years. JJT

 

[thcri]

Pine,

My boiler is 125,000 Btu's. It heats the lower level of my ramber = 2500 square feet, garage = 1,100 square feet, two bathrooms = 300 square feet, ice melt - 200 square feet open to ambient and does my domestic hot water 80 gallons. So you see that boiler goes along ways.

murph

 

[PineRidge]

JJT, I also used a kerosene fueled salamander when I was finishing out the pole barn. I might have considered keeping it as a heating option if it wasn't for the noise that it produced. It was like trying to work next to a jet engine. Now maybe someone makes one quieter that I not aware of these days as mine was 3 or 4 years old.

 

[PineRidge]

Murph do you know of any problems with running warm air supplies or return air from the forced air furnace that heats the main house to a garage area that may have gasoline or other flammables stored there?