FX24D Not running

[mrrooj]

Hey All,

So I wanted to create this because I really don't have a clue as to what I'm doing with this broken down tractor. A little history: my father purchased this tractor when they moved to this property to help with weeding and moving stuff around on six acres. I bought the property from them and inherited the tractor and the weeds. Too little time and knowledge about tractors and maintenance and I ended up running it without enough oil (i think) and abandoning it in the field for a few years.

Shared album - Eric Rujiraviriyapinyo - Google Photos

Now that I have a little more time (and a lot more weeds) I'm trying to get this tractor up and running. What I recall was that the motor overheated so I shut it off and let it cool down, tried starting again, it started but had a noisier than normal motor sound (like stuff banging around in the motor). I ran it some more and then overheated and then I gave up. And it's been sitting ever since.

Six months ago my father visited and called a tractor mechanic and unfortunately I was not there at the time but my father said he was able to get it to crank but not start. He recalls the repair was major and didn't want to go that route.

If you haven't figured it out by now, I don't know much about engines and even less about diesel tractor engines. I'm hoping that I can get some help/opinions on what to do next and I'll try to provide as many photos and video of the process to help other (but mainly for myself) So apologies in advanced as I will ask some really stupid questions.

What it currently does(or doesn't) do:

The starter will turn the motor (very slowly in bursts) but no signs of starting.

What I've done so far:
Dragged it out of the field,
Removed the Loader
Checked the fluids and topped them off
Clean the Fuel filter and bowl
Removed the air filter
Removed the Valve cover
Removed all three injectors
Put a compression tester on each cylinder and recorded the numbers

I don't think I can add links to this forum so here is a gallery of all the photos and videos so far:
Yanmar FX24D - Google Photos

I'm pretty sure something mechanical is messed up from what I remember it sounding like. So I'm going to assume the worst.

I'll follow this post up with the compression test results.

 

[mrrooj]

Compression Test:

Im not sure if i did this correctly but i removed fuel lines from pump to injectors, then removed the connected collars that go back to the tank (is this where the excess fuel goes?) and then removed one injector. Using a diesel compression tool i got at harbor freight i was able to fit it into the existing hole and left the copper washer since it seemed like it needed it to make a good connection. The motor prior to this is cranking really slowly, especially now that the decompression fingers are no long there since the valve cover is off (im guessing you would want to use decomp while compression testing though) you will see in the video i took how its cranking as soon as i can post one.

With the tester in one cylinder and the other two cylinders occupied by the injectors the crank was the same, slow and choppy. The first cylinder (front of the motor) could barely get to 200 psi. Then i took the second injector off and left the first one open and got just over 200 engine cranking was a little better. By the third injector (back of the motor) and with the other two injectors left off so it was open, it cranked to 350ish. Just to see if the open injectors made a difference i retested the first cylinder and got close to 350 again.


1st cylinder:
Shared album - Eric Rujiraviriyapinyo - Google Photos
2nd cylinder:
Shared album - Eric Rujiraviriyapinyo - Google Photos
3rd cylinder:
Shared album - Eric Rujiraviriyapinyo - Google Photos
1st cylinder (with the other two injectors off)
Shared album - Eric Rujiraviriyapinyo - Google Photos


Was this the correct procedure to test?

Is 350 anywhere near where it should be?

Why is my motor cranking so irregular?

Battery is toast so throughout these tests i had it connected to my running truck.

Hopefully the next post i can add photos.

 

[winston1]

Your compression should be 500+psi @ around 300 rpm. You would do with with untested cylinders open to allow rapid rotation. Do not use decompression while testing.

 

[YanmarFever]

The clutch plate may be stuck also, since it sat for so looong.

 

[mrrooj]

Your compression should be 500+psi @ around 300 rpm. You would do with with untested cylinders open to allow rapid rotation. Do not use decompression while testing.

So, assuming my testing injector was seated properly and my test was done correctly, im well below what it needs to be. What are the next steps for finding out why the compression is so low? I can see the valve springs and rocker arms moving in sequence so the motor has not seized up right? Should i be looking at the starter next? or remove the head to see whats going on inside?

 

[mrrooj]

The clutch plate may be stuck also, since it sat for so looong.

Would a stuck clutch plate any anything to do with the motor struggling to turn over? I was able to drag the tractor in Neutral but only in reverse. It seems like the gears are engaged when trying to roll forward (does that make sense?)

 

[HoyeTractor]

Should i be looking at the starter next? or remove the head to see whats going on inside?

I think if it were me I would probably try to get the engine to turn over at a normal speed before I went much further. Maybe try some jumper cables and remove all 3 injectors. All piston rings will bleed off some compression and, the slower the engine turns over, the less compression it will be able build. It is a long shot but at least you could mark that off the list of possibilities. I would probably do a quick valve lash check also before I pulled the head. Another long shot but easy to check.

I would say that probably the last 4 out of 5 of those F20/22/24 engines that came through here with low compression had visibly egg shaped cylinders for some reason.

I don't think powershift tractors are supposed to be towed.

 

[California]

Just thinking about issues, a few diagnostic questions, pretty much repeating what Aaron (Hoye) said:

That clanking when you last ran it: Did you look at the dipstick then, or recently, to verify presence/absence of oil? Cranking now, does the oil light go out after 10 seconds?

Failure to start after long parking can be because the fuel system needs to be bled. Was that done before tearing things down?

Failure to start is often caused by low compression. If the engine hasn't run in a while then oil on the cylinder walls and behind the rings, which help maintain compression, isn't there.

Failure to start can be caused by slow cranking. (Faster cranking wouldn't leave so much time for compression to leak past the rings). Before tearing it down, did it crank noticeably faster using the compression release? Is it faster now with the injectors out? No improvement could be a weak starter.

Did you put the range selector (lever by right ankle) to neutral before towing? Does shifting that to neutral now let it crank faster? If the clutch is stuck so the starter has to turn the transmission, that could explain slow cranking.

Your failure happened suddenly, not over time, so I wouldn't suspect age/wear as the most likely issue. Increasing difficulty to get it started would be the symptom for excessive age.

That noise and the present failure to start can be related, but not necessarily. If it were me I would work on improving starting before tearing anything more down.


And not really a solution here but something I thought about after buying a replacement starter that was spec'd for a larger tractor: That new starter, same physical size but much higher rated KW output, cranks frantically fast. I think it could start a badly worn engine. This might be a cheapskate solution to get several more years use from a worn, hard to start engine before overhaul.

 

[mrrooj]

I think if it were me I would probably try to get the engine to turn over at a normal speed before I went much further. Maybe try some jumper cables and remove all 3 injectors. All piston rings will bleed off some compression and, the slower the engine turns over, the less compression it will be able build. It is a long shot but at least you could mark that off the list of possibilities. I would probably do a quick valve lash check also before I pulled the head. Another long shot but easy to check.

I would say that probably the last 4 out of 5 of those F20/22/24 engines that came through here with low compression had visibly egg shaped cylinders for some reason.

I don't think powershift tractors are supposed to be towed.

Just to recap, my battery is dead so all attempts were done with jumper cables. I did go ahead and try starting it with all three injectors off for comparison:
Shared album - Eric Rujiraviriyapinyo - Google Photos

I tried to capture the RPM in the video under 1,000 does that seem like a reasonable RPM for a good starter?

I found the Hoye article on valve adjustments:
Easiest way to set the valves on your Yanmar
So ill pick up some feeler gauges and give that a try. I attempted to move the flywheel with a socket wrench and it was somewhat difficult to get it to stay where i wanted it. it kept trying to rotate against the pressure. so im not confident that ill have much luck with that, but willing to try.


to answer California's questions:

1.) I did not look at the dipstick when it happened, but im pretty sure the oil light was on at the time. The tractor definitely has oil now. And yes one of the times i was cranking it the oil light did go out. (thats a good sign no?)
2.) Fuel bleed - prior to taking the valve cover off i did clean the fuel bowl, the filter was really disgusting, so i didnot put that back in, but my fuel pump has that lever to pump fuel, so i did open up the lines and pump the bowl full and make sure that fuel was pumping out where it connects after the bowl. I have these nuts with springs behind them are those some sort of air bleed feature?
3.) Yes, prior to teardown it would crank much better with the compression released, it looked very similar to the video i posted above with the injectors out.
4.) Range Selector, the lever by my right ankle is the 4wd lever right? i dont see neutral there Shared album - Eric Rujiraviriyapinyo - Google Photos i tried both on and off but i did make sure the transmission was in neutral. I think you may have something on the clutch being stuck and as mentioned earlier by tractorErnie.

I just tried with my daughter at the seat combinations of clutch on/off and 4wd on/off and again i was only able to get the tractor to freely roll backwards, forward will only roll if we engage the clutch pedal, but it feels like im pushing the transmission engaged, when we take the foot off the clutch it does not roll at all. Can anyone confirm if thats what happens with the clutch is stuck? doesnt really make sense to me, seems like it wouldnt roll either with clutch engaged or not. i tried googling it but not sure what is the best way to test for the clutch and how to unstick it

 

[mrrooj]

To add more info. I tried turning on the fuel and was hoping that it would shooting out of the pump but more like a little dribbles. Might be hard to see from the video but the three nozzles from the fuel pump and kinda dribbling out while cranking and with foot on the gas. Is this cause for concern? Seems like it may not matter if im having cranking issues, but thought i would mention it.
Shared album - Eric Rujiraviriyapinyo - Google Photos

 

[winston1]

To add more info. I tried turning on the fuel and was hoping that it would shooting out of the pump but more like a little dribbles. Might be hard to see from the video but the three nozzles from the fuel pump and kinda dribbling out while cranking and with foot on the gas. Is this cause for concern? Seems like it may not matter if im having cranking issues, but thought i would mention it.
Shared album - Eric Rujiraviriyapinyo - Google Photos

Could be your feed pump. FUEL FEED PUMP ASSEMBLY: Yanmar Tractor Parts

I can't tell just how much if any fuel coming out but don't be expecting a large volume. Very small plunger in there moving fuel and these things sip diesel.

 

[California]

4.) Range Selector, the lever by my right ankle is the 4wd lever right? i dont see neutral there

I found a thread with good pictures and good advice from Winston:
https://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/yanmar/389239-yanmar-fx24d-help.html
and I see the range shifter on these is the H-gate behind your left knee - I think.
Photo in that 2017 thread.

You guys with these modern tractors! That's not like the elderly stuff I learned on.

Anyhow - with that range shifter at neutral, the center of the H, I don't think the transmission will make much resistance to turning over the engine with the starter even if the clutch is stuck. On the other hand there may still be a sensation of brakes engaged when you push the tractor. At least on my Powershift YM186D, something in the transmission serves as a weak parking brake and reduces the tendency of the tractor to roll when stopped on a slight slope. And that feature may explain the advice to not tow these. But I'm talking here about a model I'm not familiar with, so take my comments as nothing more than something to think about - if that.

 

[CoyPatton]

One other point, if you know you have a dead battery and it is still connected to the battery cables on the tractor while you are jumping from a vehicle, that battery is likely consuming some of the amps from the jumper vehicle. Also each connection point is a potential increase in resistance for the flow of both voltage and amps.

 

[mrrooj]

Could be your feed pump. FUEL FEED PUMP ASSEMBLY: Yanmar Tractor Parts

I can't tell just how much if any fuel coming out but don't be expecting a large volume. Very small plunger in there moving fuel and these things sip diesel.

Tempted to take a look at that soon. not sure how that whole system works but so far everything ive taken apart has been pretty dirty inside and out. I cleaned up the injectors yesterday but keeping them out of the head for now.


California,-

Okay, yes the "H" shaped behind my left knee. That one has something to do with the PTO, the knob on it says so. Anyhow yes that one is always been left in the middle, ive tried going through the gears and making sure im back in the middle of the H. Im thinking at this point the starter is not going through the transmission on a stuck clutch, i think it would barely turns if that was the case and you can see that it turn pretty well once the injectors are removed or the decomp is pulled. Thanks for the links though. Its strange that putting everything in neutral and pushing the tractor is easy in Reverse but moving forward feels like something is engaged (like you said) must be something to do with the powershift.


CoyPatton- good point. next time i jump it ill just remove the battery from that equation.



While reading up on the forums last night i realized i almost made a mistake regarding the Loader. My Koyker 155 manual says to "disconnect and properly store" the hydraulic hoses. For now ive directed the hoses on the tractor into a bucket as every time i crank the motor a bit of hydraulic fluid comes out. I was looking into quick connects or just some cheap plumbing caps. But i read that some tractors need the hydraulic system to be a closed loop. Im guessing that i should probably put a nipple and connect the two lines coming from the tractor? is that correct? Also i think ive lost about 2-3 quarts of fluid at this point, should i top that off too? How are these tractors sold, whithout FEL's? do they just have a loop of the two hoses?

Thanks to all, I really appreciate the help youve been giving so far. im confident I (we) will get this figured out.

 

[CoyPatton]

There are multiple ways to plumb the hydraulics for a tractor. Personally, I dislike how mine was done, but it works and to date, I have not redone something that works.
All that to say that without seeing where your supply line comes from to your loader or where the return line connects, it is difficult to say how yours was done.
Now yes the supply line needs to be returned to the reservoir (tank) or you will run your tractor dry eventually. Not something you want to do!
If you have fittings that spin freely on your hoses until tight (name escapes me at the moment for those fittings) then a coupler is fine for short term. If you do not have those fittings, then use a union for the short term.
Long term plan to install quick connects. Put one male and one female on the loader and reverse on the hoses. This way if you remove the loader again then you can quickly close the loop.
With fluid from your hydraulics in a bucket, it is a great time to inspect the condition of your fluid compared to new fluid! Any milkiness, or other issues.

 

[blackd]

If you do not have quick connects (QCs) on your FEL hydraulic lines and you have removed the FEL, then either buy some QCs or install short jumper lines for the FEL controller. You could reconnect the FEL, also. QCs are probably the less expensive and easiest route. If you can find the correct plugs for your FEL controller then you can also install them. You need to find the specs for you FEL controller to see what the style and size of the connectors should be.

Having said all that you MUST close those FEL controller ports. If you do start the tractor it will drain the reservoir, which actually is the transmission, in seconds. Remember while running the hydraulic pressure will be ~2300-2500 PSI. Don't get hit by it.

I built and installed my own FEL on my FX24D and you will probably find the DEF high pressure line connected into the small (high pressure) metal line close to the hydraulic pump. The FEL return may go right back to that same location. The bigger line is the suction/input line to the pump. I connected my FEL by cutting a short section our of the HP line and running the HP lines to compression fittings on the ends of the remaining lines. That way I didn't need to worry about where the other hydraulic functions as they were not disturbed. The FEL was the 1st device in the closed HP system, and the last device, usually the 3 point, fed the reservoir as before.

 

[mrrooj]

Great advice on the hydraulics. I had a brass plumbing nipple that i thought was going to fit but i dont think the threads mated quite right. So for now its the bucket. I need to figure out a way to connect the two ends, not sure of what size the connections are, i have some pneumatic quick connects that are 1/4 inch and they seem to fit, but not going to use those as i dont think they are close to the same in PSI capacity.

as for the cranking issue. im not sure what to do next. Today i took the dead battery out of the loop and compression checked all three cylinders again, i got just over 300 on two of them and one was 230-240. So that fact alone tells me that there is definitely something different from the other two, and more likely something wrong with all of them. I also pulled the starter off and looked for anything suspicious, photos here:
Shared album - Eric Rujiraviriyapinyo - Google Photos

I know its engaging and turning the motor, i dont know if its getting enough RPM though. Can i get it tested somewhere? (hard to tell from my videos but it seems like its spinning fast enough (when the injectors are out).

Im still leaning to taking the head off and inspect since compression is vastly different on one cylinder.


I also had an idea on testing the injectors. i flipped the hard lines around so the injectors were pointed to the outside of the motor and cranked the motor. It appears i have one injector that is bad or still dirty. Can i get replacement parts for these injectors or do i but the whole thing. Take a look at the video and you will see the one injector(the one on the left) thats not spraying evenly and drips.
Shared album - Eric Rujiraviriyapinyo - Google Photos

i did move it to verify it was the injector and not the pump, the problem followed the injector.

Besides the one injector does the spray on the other two look good? i notice it doesnt have the star pattern ive seen on other injector videos.

Still think that this is moot if i cant get the compression up though right.

What do you guys think i should do next? (still havnt done lash adjustment)

 

[winston1]

One thing for sure that #3 injector is not working. Doubt a cylinder will fire with that. Those injectors are set to pop around 2000+psi. They have to be set with testing equipment. I don't know whether your cleaning process effected this or not.

I would put a squirt or two of light oil in the cylinders and check compression again. If you don't have a valve leak by and numbers don't come up your in trouble.

 

[mrrooj]

One thing for sure that #3 injector is not working. Doubt a cylinder will fire with that. Those injectors are set to pop around 2000+psi. They have to be set with testing equipment. I don't know whether your cleaning process effected this or not.

I would put a squirt or two of light oil in the cylinders and check compression again. If you don't have a valve leak by and numbers don't come up your in trouble.

How would i get oil into the cylinder on this? i was thinking that the injector hole sat just outside of the cylinder. just some clean motor oil?

Edit: googled some photos, looks like indirect or direct injection you just put some oil down the injector hole. Ill try that and report back.

 

[CoyPatton]

A lack of oil on the cylinder walls can effect the seal of the rings thus Winston’s suggestion for a couple of drops of oil. You should be able to do that through the injector opening—fuel has to get into the cylinder.
Check the adjustment on your valves (if you haven’t), as this is accessible to you and can be a source of loss of compression. I know Aaron suggested this, and it is worth doing as general maintenance as I believe you said you have the cover off.
If you have a diesel injector/machine shop near you, they should be able to test your injectors and possibly rebuild them.
Also the pump guy on this forum may have suggestions on the injectors.


Injectors are available, most put this in here to be a caution of how much to spend on rebuilding an injector. Since these fire fuel into the cylinder by psi setting, I admit my total lack of knowledge on the inner workings of them.