FX24D Not running

[California]

I wonder if this tractor is worth throwing more money at. It may be the rare case where starting over with something else makes more sense.

I've won most gambles buying stuff cheap to fix up - but not every time. Occasionally, endless problems become apparent as work progresses ...

 

[blackd]

CA asks "I wonder if this tractor is worth throwing more money at." He has yet to fix the 1st of his problems, so it is modest conjecture how many other problems there will be. Let's get this tractor running, then review again.

 

[mrrooj]

Okay,

i retested with some oil (it was a lot more than a few drops though, put the smallest glug i could from the quart) but they tested at #1 400 - #2 280 - #3 375 better but cylinder 2 is still an issue.

Ill get the feeler gauges and do the valve adjustment.

I havnt thrown much money at it yet, comp tester and a few sockets so far. but the potential for big bucks is there.

give me some scenarios of what else could be wrong still. Cant i get replacement parts for whats in the motor? what about a refurb motor?

in my area, ive seen similar tractors for around 7-8 K , so i feel like i still have some options before i consider dumping this tractor.

 

[blackd]

mrooj, I dropped a valve in my FX24D, which in turn trashed the piston and cracked the cylinder wall. I sold it to a machinist who welded, bored the cylinders and installed cores. He had a reworked but older tractor. Buying another used tractor is playing roulette with a new set of potential problem. I needed my tractor so had to buy a new one.

Had the engine problem occurred in the Fall, I would have fixed for Spring. I still miss my Yanmar.

 

[mrrooj]

mrooj, I dropped a valve in my FX24D, which in turn trashed the piston and cracked the cylinder wall. I sold it to a machinist who welded, bored the cylinders and installed cores. He had a reworked but older tractor. Buying another used tractor is playing roulette with a new set of potential problem. I needed my tractor so had to buy a new one.

Had the engine problem occurred in the Fall, I would have fixed for Spring. I still miss my Yanmar.

Right, so something along the lines of a rebuild kit (plus the repair on the cracks) right? like this:
buy Overhaul Rebuild Kit for Yanmar 3TNB84 Engine FX235 FF245D FX255 FX265 F265DT FX265M Tractor

are those piston sleeves already in the motor by default? or is that why you bore them out?

any ideas of a roundabout cost of having a shop do that kind of work? is it in the hundreds or thousands?

 

[winston1]

Okay,

i retested with some oil (it was a lot more than a few drops though, put the smallest glug i could from the quart) but they tested at #1 400 - #2 280 - #3 375 better but cylinder 2 is still an issue.

Ill get the feeler gauges and do the valve adjustment.

I havnt thrown much money at it yet, comp tester and a few sockets so far. but the potential for big bucks is there.

give me some scenarios of what else could be wrong still. Cant i get replacement parts for whats in the motor? what about a refurb motor?

in my area, ive seen similar tractors for around 7-8 K , so i feel like i still have some options before i consider dumping this tractor.

Your compression is still way low. If you haven't you need to check valves or at least make sure they do have "some clearance". Yes, parts are available. F24 / FX24 ENGINE: Yanmar Tractor Parts

I'm not there so I am probably missing something but if your getting a good spin and only 280psi you are facing a ring job at the least. Might be worth trying to crank it but until the injector is working properly I doubt that happens.

 

[blackd]

Mrrooj "are those piston sleeves already in the motor by default? or is that why you bore them out?" IIRC, most FX24 engines DO NOT have sleeves. That's all I know as haven't talked to the new owner for 12-15 years.

 

[CoyPatton]

Since you have not adjusted the valve lash nor have any ideal when they may have last been adjusted, I would nit get overly excited about my the compression numbers until you have everything external as right as you can get it. A valve not seating on the compression stroke could be your loss.

A decision on what to do with the tractor in my opinion is not relevant yet.
To help with this, you mentioned topping off fluids, but what are the condition (appearance and levels) of your coolant and oil after running several compression test and other periods of cranking.
I am a bit old school mechanic and like a pressure leak down test. This is charging each cylinder individually with air pressure (there are tools for this similar to a compression tester). Each cylinder needs to be on the compression stroke (valve adjustment should be done first). You pressurize the cylinder and watch for if the cylinder holds pressure. If it does not hold pressure you start looking for where you are losing air (intake, exhaust, oil, coolant or around the head and block). Takes some patience and may need some type of indicator to see flow.
Generally this gives you more information on where to look. For example if you detect air movement from the oil pan, you know the cylinder has issues (head gasket, rings, crack in cylinder wall or hole in piston). You still have work to do but you have some solid info to follow.
Others like other test.
If you have oil in your coolant, we know more also also if you have milky looking oil it gives more info. Most likely but not only for either or both of these is a blown head gasket. There can be other causes however.

 

[mrrooj]

Since you have not adjusted the valve lash nor have any ideal when they may have last been adjusted, I would nit get overly excited about my the compression numbers until you have everything external as right as you can get it. A valve not seating on the compression stroke could be your loss.

A decision on what to do with the tractor in my opinion is not relevant yet.
To help with this, you mentioned topping off fluids, but what are the condition (appearance and levels) of your coolant and oil after running several compression test and other periods of cranking.
I am a bit old school mechanic and like a pressure leak down test. This is charging each cylinder individually with air pressure (there are tools for this similar to a compression tester). Each cylinder needs to be on the compression stroke (valve adjustment should be done first). You pressurize the cylinder and watch for if the cylinder holds pressure. If it does not hold pressure you start looking for where you are losing air (intake, exhaust, oil, coolant or around the head and block). Takes some patience and may need some type of indicator to see flow.
Generally this gives you more information on where to look. For example if you detect air movement from the oil pan, you know the cylinder has issues (head gasket, rings, crack in cylinder wall or hole in piston). You still have work to do but you have some solid info to follow.
Others like other test.
If you have oil in your coolant, we know more also also if you have milky looking oil it gives more info. Most likely but not only for either or both of these is a blown head gasket. There can be other causes however.

Thanks, thats a good point about the lash, i did read up more on it yesterday and i didnt have time to run to the hardware store for feeler gauges but i did try adjusting it to get a feel for it. I grabbed a piece of 600 grit sandpaper (just because it was the thinnest thing i could find next to me) and used that as my gauge. It was easier than i thought it was going to be and just thinking like winston said "some clearance" I will do it with the appropriate gauge next.

I also cleaned that injector 3 again and found some grittyness in the needle area. It looks like maybe flecks of the black paint that are coming off of the motor. I have pressure washed and hit this thing with the air compressor but it seems like the greases is stronger than the paint at this point. So Im sure i got some paint crud around the injector nuts that dislodged when i put them on. Fired it up to take a look and i think it was spraying now but it was late and hard to watch it at the drivers seat. ill test it again today.

The condition of the fluids: The coolant looks green and clean when i look into the radiator, The oil doesnt look right to me, it doesnt look overly burnt but kinda thin and grey when i see it on the dipstick. The hydraulic fluid (which is also the transmission right?) it looks dark grayish red, consistent to what ive seen on a car.

I will look into the leakdown tests. i was hoping that the compression tool would also do that but i think it hold the guage at pressure until you release it manually.


Also i still think something is up with the starter. I forgot to mention this earlier but all of these compression test ive been doing ive noticed the connectors on the starter solenoid will smoke sometime, last night i saw a visible spark on one start. The motor turns over fairly rapidly when all injectors are out but even with just one injector in it starts to bog down, sometimes if i crank and stop it on what im guessing is a compression stroke it struggles to crank again (does that make sense) so i would like to either take the starter apart to inspect or have someone that knows rebuild it. What do you think, maybe that a big part of this compression issue too.

 

[CoyPatton]

Mine is a YM series. The preferred starting procedure especially cold is after cycling through through TS, to pull the decompression lever and run the engine to build up oil pressure and spinning RPM’s.
If your starter is weak, it could have a direct effect on getting your RPM’s up. Also factoring into to this poor cable connections. Jumper cables are know for this weakness.
The sparks and the smoking could be lots of things, but a frequent issue is a loose connection on the starter solenoid post.
Lots of things may be grouping together to cause an issue that looks like something more complicated.

 

[mrrooj]

Time for an update:

I pulled the starter off and took it apart and cleaned up the contacts and all the copper internals, greased up the bearings. bench tested it and seems fine. the signal terminal looks a little loose and ive noticed some flakyness on that signal prong. Looks like the solder joint on it may be cracked but if i push on the connector it does work properly. I will need to address this.

I also put the good battery on the tractor and moved ground wire that connects from the battery to the radiator frame (it didnt look like it had a good connection) i found a screw under the battery tray that was more on the main frame and i wire brushed it and sanded until i saw bare metal.

Not sure what did it, but it is now cranking better than ive seen since starting this thread. I had the compression tool in the bad cylinder and this time got just over 300 (best test yet)

I think im ready to put the fuel injectors back on and cross my fingers that this thing will start. And hopefully get some video of it happening so we can hear the clanking i originally heard.

I also need to tie the hydraulic hoses together on the tractor. Here are the ends on the Loader:
Shared album - Eric Rujiraviriyapinyo - Google Photos

i believe they are jic 24 connectors but im not sure of the size, so i would need a something to with two males either on a nipple or a short piece of hose with those connectors, any suggestions? (the hose itself says 3/8ths)

I may just run to a hose shop to see if they can make something up.

 

[winston1]

I believe if you measure the metal part at the end of the hose you can confirm hose size. Likely 3/8" if that is what printed on the hose.

 

[blackd]

Good progress. Don't you need 2 hoses? If I understand your need you are trying to disconnect the FEL. If so you need a hose to go between the lines up/down function and another for the tip function, the 4 connectors shown in your pic. The disconnected connector shown in your pic should be either input/ouput/or power beyond.

 

[CoyPatton]

Good progress. Don't you need 2 hoses? If I understand your need you are trying to disconnect the FEL. If so you need a hose to go between the lines up/down function and another for the tip function, the 4 connectors shown in your pic. The disconnected connector shown in your pic should be either input/ouput/or power beyond.

I believe he has the loader off. I also believe he has 2 hoses from the tractor to the to the loader valve. A supply hose and a return line. They need to be connected to one another to allow his fluid to continue onward to the 3PH and reservoir.
I suggest taking fittings out of your loader valve or taking your loader valve with you and getting 2 sets of quick connects. The fittings or the valve itself will allow you to get the correct threads. With one male and one female on the 2 lines they will connect to complete your pressure loop on the tractor. You will need to secure them up to be out of the way for tractor operation (and as a trip hazard). Then use the other set on the loader valves to be able to connect the lines to the loader. If your setup is like mine you need female threads for your lines and male threads for your valve.
When do hydraulics, pipe dope thread sealant is usually a better choice that teflon tape. A little goes a long way

 

[blackd]

Coy, as I remember he was losing hydraulic fluid every time he turned the tractor over. Also, " I also believe he has 2 hoses from the tractor to the to the loader valve.", that's for each FEL function, lift and curl, so I was thinking he needs a hose for each function. Two hoses.

What you are suggesting removes the loader valve from the hydraulic circuit. That approach means he can not use the valve for any other function until he hooks it up using your QCs to re-attach to the hydraulic circuit. My approach was to allow him to continue troubleshooting without losing more fluid.

If it were me I would put QCs on the loader spools and the lines, and then if the FEL was off the loader valve could still be used for added functions. My MF is so plumbed so that in Winter with the FEL off I can use a 2 function, raise lower and turn, snow plow.

I hope all of our suggestions have been helpful to mrrooj.

 

[winston1]

Coy, as I remember he was losing hydraulic fluid every time he turned the tractor over. Also, " I also believe he has 2 hoses from the tractor to the to the loader valve.", that's for each FEL function, lift and curl, so I was thinking he needs a hose for each function. Two hoses.

What you are suggesting removes the loader valve from the hydraulic circuit. That approach means he can not use the valve for any other function until he hooks it up using your QCs to re-attach to the hydraulic circuit. My approach was to allow him to continue troubleshooting without losing more fluid.

If it were me I would put QCs on the loader spools and the lines, and then if the FEL was off the loader valve could still be used for added functions. My MF is so plumbed so that in Winter with the FEL off I can use a 2 function, raise lower and turn, snow plow.

I hope all of our suggestions have been helpful to mrrooj.

I agree with your thinking. Also, if you leave the loader valve on the tractor with no quick disconnects on the inlet and outlet you do away with the possibility of a deadhead. Using quick disconnects on the inlet and outlet is risky because if one gets snagged loose or something you risk damaging your pump. Do it like this.

To ease your minds the hose with the clamp is just a tank return, it sees no pressure. There is a power beyond hose not shown going back to the 3 point.

 

[CoyPatton]

Coy, as I remember he was losing hydraulic fluid every time he turned the tractor over. Also, " I also believe he has 2 hoses from the tractor to the to the loader valve.", that's for each FEL function, lift and curl, so I was thinking he needs a hose for each function. Two hoses.

What you are suggesting removes the loader valve from the hydraulic circuit. That approach means he can not use the valve for any other function until he hooks it up using your QCs to re-attach to the hydraulic circuit. My approach was to allow him to continue troubleshooting without losing more fluid.

If it were me I would put QCs on the loader spools and the lines, and then if the FEL was off the loader valve could still be used for added functions. My MF is so plumbed so that in Winter with the FEL off I can use a 2 function, raise lower and turn, snow plow.

I hope all of our suggestions have been helpful to mrrooj.

As I remember yes he was losing fluid into a bucket when cranking the tractor. But I if I remember it correctly it was from the supply (pressure) line to the loader. That needs to return to the tractor. At present without doing so he runs the risk of dropping his fluid level below his suction screen and sucking air to the pump.
Yes hydraulic hoses should always be routed or placed in a way to prevent there being caught and jerked off. Even the tank lines as you again risk loss of fluid if compromised. For the OP with the tractor not running trip hazard may be a large concern short term, long term they need to be secured in a manner to prevent be hung by anything one could imagine.

 

[mrrooj]

Here is a photo from my hydraulic pump:
Shared album - Eric Rujiraviriyapinyo - Google Photos

Those two lines circled go to the loader, assuming the hard line is the high pressure from the pump and the other is the return. I pulled the return off so i could take it to get it fitted. From what i understand i just need to put the two hoses left over from the Loader, together to complete the loop otherwise ill pump out all my fluid. I tried some standard NPT nipples but they dont fit, so probably going to go to a hose shop and have them take a look. On the Loader i just need to cap them off for now. Quick connects would be the easiest solution for both sides.

I was under the impression that we all had the same setup for hydraulics but i guess they can be plumbed in a variety of ways. seems strange to me to have the pump on one side but the loader controls on the opposite with hoses just kinda hanging free below.But what do i know :confused3:

 

[CoyPatton]

Here is a photo from my hydraulic pump:
Shared album - Eric Rujiraviriyapinyo - Google Photos

Those two lines circled go to the loader, assuming the hard line is the high pressure from the pump and the other is the return. I pulled the return off so i could take it to get it fitted. From what i understand i just need to put the two hoses left over from the Loader, together to complete the loop otherwise ill pump out all my fluid. I tried some standard NPT nipples but they dont fit, so probably going to go to a hose shop and have them take a look. On the Loader i just need to cap them off for now. Quick connects would be the easiest solution for both sides.

I was under the impression that we all had the same setup for hydraulics but i guess they can be plumbed in a variety of ways. seems strange to me to have the pump on one side but the loader controls on the opposite with hoses just kinda hanging free below.But what do i know :confused3:

With a Yanmar tractor tractor fittings will almost never be NPT threads. Not sure where your loader may have been made, but it seems rare that loaders (at least for import tractors) have NOT threads also. JIC seems more common (at least for what I have encountered). One of the reasons I suggested earlier ti take a fitting, the valve or if simpler for you a hose works. I have seen hydraulic hoses and lines ran all kinds of ways, many that I find poorly done—as I am sure anyone that has worked around equipment has as well.
Looking at your photo, personally I do not like the bare hoses running through the metal without a protective sleeve. A protective sleeve can be as simple as a piece of old radiator hose cut to length and split lengthwise and placed over the hoses for prevention of rubbing. A simple way to hold the up is a zip tie looped in a zip tie around the hose and then use it to hang the hose out of the way. I have also ran them through plastic pipes, I like to cushion the ends of the pipe with split lengths of heater hose on the end of the pipe attached with RTV silicone.

 

[mrrooj]

I agree with your thinking. Also, if you leave the loader valve on the tractor with no quick disconnects on the inlet and outlet you do away with the possibility of a deadhead. Using quick disconnects on the inlet and outlet is risky because if one gets snagged loose or something you risk damaging your pump. Do it like this.

To ease your minds the hose with the clamp is just a tank return, it sees no pressure. There is a power beyond hose not shown going back to the 3 point.

Im looking forward to the day when i can worry about this stuff. at this point i just need to close the loop. Question though: it looks like you are leaving the loader controls on the tractor, which i thought was part of the loader itself. I wanted to loader off just to be able to work around the engine. So are you just taking the bucket off then and leaving the arms on? I have the koyker 150 by the way http://www.koykermfg.com/images/koyker-manuals/665376 155 090913.pdf