Fuel for old tractors - Lead?

[Jay4200]

I've been looking for a vintage "lawn" tractor to mow my grass - something like a Farmall/IH Cub or Allis B/C with a belly mower. How cool would that be in the 'burbs? Anyway, it got me thinking - can I even safely run pump gas in these things? Surely none of the fuel system seals are ethanol-resistant, and the motors are designed for leaded gas. What do you vintage iron owners use in your tanks? Do fuel system seals need to be updated? Do you put in a lead replacement additive of some kind?

JayC

 

[TripleR]

My brothers and I own a Ford NAA and two 600's, we use an additive that is suppose to replace the effects of lead.

 

[bigbull338]

the best thing for those old motors is to find gas with out E85 in it.but thats like looking for a needle in a haystack.

 

[Scrambler82]

Check out additives as TripleR has stated.
Not the easiest but most of the time they work.

 

[Jay4200]

As far as I know, we don't have any non-ethanol fuel available in my area - everything is 10%. So, for the next question: should I avoid old tractors that have been run WITHOUT additives (or plan on early valve jobs for those)?

JayC

 

[TripleR]

I honestly don't know as there seems to be some disagreement and I am not a mechanic; maybe one will show up with a definitive answer.

Fortunately, my brother is a mechanic, so I can usually check with him when I don't know which happens more than i care to admit.

 

[tessiers]

I run lead additive in all my old iron. The lead was a lubricant, so I assume the additive is not real lead, but I don't know. The engines will run without lead, however premature valve wear will result. When it will become a problem is a hard call, under light loads (mowing grass) many will last a long time with no ill effects. It will not hurt a newer engine to run the additive so I run it when ever I am in doubt. As to weather or not ethanol will ruin the engines, who knows. I think the ethanol will eventually ruin all engines, including the ones made for it, save the planet. I have had great sucess running old iron and I think a lot of people are overlooking great old tractors simply because they are old and not shiny. We still work a Ford NAA 12 months a year doing general farm work and it has preformed excellent, not to say a newer one wouldn't have done the same.

I say go for the old!!!

 

[jinman]

You do not have to add the lead additive to every tankfull. Once the valves are coated, that coating holds for a long time. Using lead additive for a couple of tanks of fuel will probably make your tractor good to go for at least 6 months. I had one old tractor dealer tell me that most tractors have enough lead already on them that you need not worry ever. Certainly, if hardened valve seats have been used on a recent engine rebuild, lead is not necessary. If I were buying an old tractor with many hours on the engine, I'd run a couple of tanks full of gas with lead additive and then never again.

It's your choice, but those who sell additives may not be the best to seek advice from. Their interest is in selling their additive. They will say to err on the side of caution and use their product in every tank. You can hardly blame them for that logic. If it makes you sleep better at night, by all means use the additive.

 

[joemd11]

Can you even buy a lead additive anymore. I thought that stuff was banned by the EPA a long time ago.

 

[TripleR]

Can you even buy a lead additive anymore. I thought that stuff was banned by the EPA a long time ago.

The stuff we use is a "lead substitute", so not banned by the EPA as I understand it.

 

[Qapla]

the best thing for those old motors is to find gas with out E85 in it.but thats like looking for a needle in a haystack.

Guess I'm glad I'm not in your neck of the woods. Around here, you are doing good if you CAN find E85. However, all the gas has 10% Ethanol.

Running the "modern" gas will probably not hurt the motor, as long as you aren't working the tractor all-day-every-day. However, I will probably result in a premature need to rebuild the carb if it has rubber seals in it. If it is old enough to have leather seals, the alcohol doesn't do them as much harm as it does the rubber.

 

[DJ54]

A machine shop operator where I had the head for my '64 Ford truck 6 cylinder suggested using Marvel Mystery oil in the gas tank. Works great in older lawn mowers too, that the valves may stick when using unleaded gas.

We're still fortunate here in my area, to get 100% gas. You just have to buy it at a company named station. BP, Marathon, Sunoco, etc.

Alcohol pretty well wreaks havoc on anything neoprene in carbs. I know it took more than several thousand accelerator pump seals out of many early carbs... Mine included, in my '74 Chevy truck.

 

[Bigkrank]

Lot of us around here go to the airport and get 100LL avgas. It's all I've used in old tractors and older small engines/chainsaws for quite a few years. Doesn't varnish either.

 

[Reg]

As I understood it the issue is "soft" valves and/or valve seats.
The lead additive somehow softened the blow of the valve hitting the valve seat, i.e. its benefit was mechanical not chemical. It was an anti-knock agent too.
BICBW.

I used a lead substitute additive in 80s/90s boats, which were supposedly 5 or 10 years behind their car/truck equivalents - at the time.
I haven't run a boat in a long time, so haven't looked for the lsa at Wally world lately.
I may still have some, I'll dig around and see what I can make out of the label.

I think there were some places offering head re-builds with hardened valves and seats - which were claimed to fix all things (-:
I never looked into that fully,,,,, it may be worth some research.

 

[SandburRanch]

I don't know what all the hype is about leaded gas. Natural gas and propane engines ran just fine without lead and the valves lasted a lot longer than engines running leaded gas.

 

[Reg]

I don't know what all the hype is about leaded gas. Natural gas and propane engines ran just fine without lead and the valves lasted a lot longer than engines running leaded gas.

The "hype" has history.
I can't get the details exactly right, but if you try a search for Dupont, General motors, and tetra-ethyl lead you should get the "story".
At least some modern rendition, courtesy of wiki and its contributors.

 

[GaryCrowell]

I personally think the issue is overblown and you could probably run regular unleaded gas in an old tractor without noticing any ill effects. On something that old chances are something else is going to break long before the lack of lead affects anything. I'd be more worried about running gas with ethanol in it, but ethanol free gas is pretty easy to find in my area if you look around. Several stations have signs boasting ethanol free gas and that's where I buy gas for my chainsaw and other small engines.