Fuel additives

[96must]

I own a band new L2501 with 10 hours on it, this is the first deisal I have ever owned and the newest I have ever owned, should I run additives through it with each fill to keep engine clean from beginning? If so, what would be a good product to run through it

 

[mikesee]

The very best thing you can do is keep the tank full of diesel. Don't wait until the tank is empty. By displacing the air with fuel there is less chance of condensation and corrosion of the fuel float. A lot of people like the stuff in the White bottle.

 

[varmint]

There have been literally hundreds, if not more, of posts discussing fuel additives. Basically, something like Powerstroke will help prevent algae from growing in stored fuel (yes, it really does) and diesel from gelling in cold temperatures. Of course, it should also boost the cetane rating, help with combustion deposits, and keep your teeth white. It should be put in fuel when you bring it home, and not just when you put it into your tractor's tank. There have been various charts showing different properties of competing brands, test results and the like posted over the years on TbN, as well. There are some trick enzyme treatments used by steam boiler guys for stored heating oil that does amazingly good things, but that's another thread.

 

[3930dave]

The very best thing you can do is keep the tank full of diesel. Don't wait until the tank is empty. By displacing the air with fuel there is less chance of condensation and corrosion of the fuel float. A lot of people like the stuff in the White bottle.

^ What he said.

Best practice for diesels has always been top up the tank at the end of every operating day. That's even more critical (IMO) for the hobby category many of us fall into..... you pull it out for a project, then at the end of a long day think "I fill it up tomorrow/soon..." - next thing you know days or weeks go by....

Read, read, and read some more on additives..... lots of discussion out there. After my research, I settled on Stanadyne a few years back - there are other good ones out there.

What's probably at least as important is where you buy your diesel from. Generally, the best choice is a HIGH volume truck stop - you want really fresh fuel - where I buy mine will sometimes get 2 tanker train deliveries a day.

Diesel that sits around can collect water, and esp. today, that easily leads to microbial contamination (algae). Treatment for that includes biocide addition - be aware of what this is, but don't go there unless you need to.

Esp. if you rely on your tractor (clearing snow, downed trees....) keep at least one spare fuel filter at home. Many of todays compact tractors have a small single stage filter, that can plug up relatively quickly. Winter use means a risk of frozen filters (esp. w/o additives), one more reason to keep spare filters handy.

Synthetic oil and a block heater are also a great way to get through Winter successfully.

Rgds, D.

 

[newbury]

Check what you are running for a fuel pump. Many of the newer diesels (in VW's and 1 ton trucks) were using Bosch which were designed for LSD, and European diesel, not USA ULSD. They have had a lot of fuel pumps destroyed. LSD provides more lubricity. Other than that water and algae are two main problems.

And make DARN sure nobody puts gas in it. Don't be in the habit of saying "gas up the tractor" or your wife or friend may just do that.

 

[MHarryE]

Not sure where Newbury got his information but Europe has been in front of North America on diesel emissions and in fact required ULSD before it was required across the board in North America. Condensation and algae growth can be a problem so keeping water out is good, but my experience testing diesels has been the filters end up being the algae collection problem - quickly plugged filter. I haven't had an algae problem in the drier area where I live but there are humid areas in America where a biocide is very helpful. When living in Europe, I had a list of fuel brands recommended by BMW for my car to prevent premature injection system failure. The list consisted of the large name oil companies. However unlike the Bosch system in my BMW, your tractor has a Denso system. Japanese fuel tends more toward kerosene. Consequently Denso makes an extremely robust system.

 

[JWR]

I have been running diesels of one sort or another since 1979. The short version of my comment is "Don't bother." The longer version is: 1) if you expect it to be below 10 degrees mix in No. 1 (kerosene) up to 50% as all heavy equip operators in the northern climes do. 2) I equate use of additives to psychological comfort. Probably won't hurt. In rare cases it may even get some moisture out of the system. Make your engine cleaner ? No proof of that exists. 3) If you must use an additive, I agree with Mikesee that most people use Seafoam. Has to be some reason why it is twice the price of the others. I do when I suspicion impurities or just filled the tank and the thing sounds different. Certainly nothing like "required" or "important" or mandatory. 4) It is very worth noting that no major tractor manufacturer recommends additives. JUST USE CLEAN FUEL !! Being brand new, that thing will outlive you and run just fine for many years without ever ingesting a drop of additive in my opinion.

 

[varmint]

Depending on your area, you may be able to get your diesel home delivered... as heating oil. It's fresh, and around here, comes from the same storage tank at the fuel depot as road fuel... just some red dye, and viola', it's off road diesel.

The advice about getting it from a high volume dealer is good: I once filled up a diesel Rabbit (I know...) in "Nowhere" PA, in desperation, at a remote gas station that probably got a diesel delivery twice a year. This was in Jan., yet it turned out I got summer blend. I learned to never allow yourself to get desperate. A truck stop would have been nice.

 

[newbury]

Check what you are running for a fuel pump. Many of the newer diesels (in VW's and 1 ton trucks) were using Bosch which were designed for LSD, and European diesel, not USA ULSD. They have had a lot of fuel pumps destroyed. LSD provides more lubricity. Other than that water and algae are two main problems.

And make DARN sure nobody puts gas in it. Don't be in the habit of saying "gas up the tractor" or your wife or friend may just do that.

Not sure where Newbury got his information but Europe has been in front of North America on diesel emissions and in fact required ULSD before it was required across the board in North America. <snip>

Newbury got his info from many sources. European diesel has a scar rating under 460, sometimes even 400. US fuel allows 520 micron wear scar with the HFRR fuel test, but the maximum wear allowed by Bosch and other designers is 460 micron. So the larger particle size here acts like sand and tears up the fuel pumps.

YES, Europe has been running ULSD for a long time, but they keep the larger particles out. I did not write nor mean to imply that Europe does not run ULSD. I meant to imply the fuel pumps were originally designed on LSD and then for "clean ULSD".

 

[kuboman]

Just to clarify John Deere, CaseIH and New Holland all recommend using fuel conditioner. They all sell there own brand.

 

[czechsonofagun]

After I had to replace two fuel filters in two days - both frozen solid - I use additives in winter.

 

[Turbys_1700]

Local dealer sells TK-7 fuel treatment.
Pretty darn pricey stuff.

 

[JWR]

Just to clarify John Deere, CaseIH and New Holland all recommend using fuel conditioner. They all sell there own brand.

Good point. I was wrong to say that no major tractor manufacturer recommends additives. A few years ago before low and ultra-low sulfur fuel became so common the mfrs not only did not sell their own but recommended against use of fuel additives. Things have changed. From what I can find, the lowered lubrication quality of lower sulfur fuel is the driver. No manufacturer is saying "you shall" use the additives but as Kuboman says they are selling it and thus inherently recommending it. Other motivators besides lubrication are boosted cetane ratings and supposed cleaning of injectors. In my sample both Deere and AGCO offer winter and summer versions with the winter ones intended to help minimize gel formation at very cold temps. Winter versions tend to call for using twice as much of the conditioner in cold months. All that said, I'm not impressed with the need for conditioner/additives. It reminds me of tiger repellent -- people who use it regularly very rarely see any tigers.

 

[buickanddeere]

After I had to replace two fuel filters in two days - both frozen solid - I use additives in winter.

Using summer fuel in the winter , well of course the filters will fill with wax or ice if there is water in the fuel.
Supposed to use winter diesel in the winter that does not have water in it.
Why not prevent the problem instead of allowing the problem then having to treat the symptoms?

 

[buickanddeere]

Companies will sell anything that they can get away with that will make $$$.

 

[CreekyB]

I am a lifelong industrial technician/carpenter, last decade or so I have been working in transit. I currently manage an operation that dispenses about 25,000 gallons per night. 11,000 from the tank farm of 120,000 diesel gallon capacity that is 75 feet from my office. 6x20K gallon diesel tanks and a 20K gallon unleaded tank.

USLD - needed but it is a bane, depending on how fresh it is will often tell how much water will perk out of it. There are several methods for removing the sulphur but one that is most effective and gaining the most ground is adding oxygen then using water to dissolve the sulphur from the ionic solution. This method is preferable because you wind up with byproducts that can be used in other industries as opposed to the older methods which left large unusable waste streams.

So, what does this mean? The centrifuge is going to leave some suspended water, the perking process for evaporation is often lengthened or shortened depending on the volume of orders for the product. Your diesel is getting delivered and dispensed with some water. Algae, fungus, and bacteria become an issue eventually. As tolerances get tighter, injectors get more and more high tech, finer and finer filters are needed to protect them.

Having said all that I use a ton of Power Service products. They just work. I can easily run into the hundreds of thousands of dollars in roadcalls and downtime if the tanks are not kept clean. Fuel cleanliness is not a huge issue because of the turnover we have in inventory. This also goes for the tanks in the vehicles. I use Bio-Kleen biocide and Clear-Diesel fuel and tank cleaner together. One kills and the other dissolves and disperses. They have some cetane boosters and cold weather additives but I have not had any use for them. Our fleets are designed for USLD and our winter lasts a week, sometimes two if we are lucky enough to have it go that long.

So, if you have a modern diesel, use what you need, not what someone is telling you that you need. If you have an older diesel use the products that you need to ammend the fuel.

There are affordable test kits to test for algae/fungus/bacteria in diesel. I tend to use the culture type, I feel like I get a better view of exactly what and how fast things are growing. That way I can treat accordingly. You will need something to grab bottom samples. Bacon bombs are good for this if you have a clear drop to the bottom of the tank.

There are other products out there, they may be effective, this was the first option while spending tons of money that actually worked for us. Mechanical cleaning of the tanks and fuel polishing can run us better than 30K$ per year, these two chemicals give us a better level of performance, reduced roadcalls and downtime, cleaner tanks for about $9,000 per year. One of the few times saving money saved money in all aspects.

Last thing, getting the water off the bottom of the tank and keeping it off the bottom of the tank will do you better than more treatment. The bugs only grow on the split between water/fuel and where the water hits air. They can grow down sump tubes and the walls of the tanks due to following the water with the condensation effect. Thus keeping your tank full is really another of the best things you can do. Fill up after use and not before use, fill up more frequently. Also, your bugs are not growing while frozen, your biocide will not do it's job while frozen. Treating in freezing temps is a waste of money.

Disclaimer: I do not work for these people, I just give them money for a product that works. The two products I have mentioned do work and are worth the cost in the Central Texas area. YMMV (but I don't think so)

Pardon the grammatical errors, I am fluent in Redneck, English is my second language.

 

[JWR]

Using summer fuel in the winter , well of course the filters will fill with wax or ice if there is water in the fuel.
Supposed to use winter diesel in the winter that does not have water in it.
Why not prevent the problem instead of allowing the problem then having to treat the symptoms?

"Winterized" fuel has NOT had the water removed per se. It has had chemicals added to prevent solidification. The winter problem normally has nothing to do with water. For czechsonofagun to have had to replace two "frozen" fuel filters in 2 days he was either talking about the water separator filter (and it is wild/hard to picture that filling right back up with water a day later unless he had terrific water pollution in his fuel tank) or more likely the fuel had turned to gel, which it does below around 10 degrees F. Unless I got fuel from the same supplier every time and confirmed it to work OK down near zero deg F I would never depend on the looseness and unproven nature of seasonal fuel treatment at the sources. I have had auto diesels flat quit due to gel forming below 10 degrees in the mountains of both WV and VT. I prefer the VT heavy equip operator solution of using up to 50/50 kerosene in very cold weather. Some if not all of the additives claim to remove water (meaning they combine with it and allow you to burn it.) That's a good thing too once in a while.


CreekyB: Outstanding insight from an obviously knowledgeable source ! Thanks for that educational info.

 

[CreekyB]

CreekyB: Outstanding insight from an obviously knowledgeable source ! Thanks for that educational info.

You are welcome, I have ZERO knowledge and insight on diesel when it gets cold. It is my opinion that humans should not live where there are no native palm species. I refuse to learn about freezing diesel

 

[JWR]

You are welcome, I have ZERO knowledge and insight on diesel when it gets cold. It is my opinion that humans should not live where there are no native palm species. I refuse to learn about freezing diesel

Ha! Here in So. MD we have no palm trees but do have very mild winters. Last time it went below 10 deg. here was 1978 as I recall. However it often does in WV mountains (where I own property) and in northern New England and Quebec where I snow ski at times. VW diesels were actually delivered in 1979 with manuals recommending 10% gasoline be added to the No.2 fuel if temps were expected below 10 degrees. That was rapidly rescinded in the early 80's when GM research published that the 10% gas mix was a hazzard. I have topped a mountain (1979 VW diesel) and had the engine quit due to low temperatures. Same thing a few hundred yards from the hotel where the engine heater was plugged in (in VT.) Dozer & crane operators in Northern VT routinely use a 50/50 mix with kerosene in very cold weather. More modern diesel cars (I hear) are equipped with line heaters. That gets the car started and then supplies warmer than ambient temp excess fuel back to the tank in the return line. Tractors are a whole different story. The only reliable way to run farm tractors in very cold weather is to use some sort of additive to prevent the gel happening (lowers the clotting point in my terms, Deere calls that "lowering the Cold Filter Plugging Point or CFPP) or, what I prefer, is just use the kerosene mix when needed. The No.1 and No. 2 mix puts out less power and hurts fuel mileage but that's a small price to pay compared with getting stuck somewhere.

 

[kuboman]

Just to add to the conversation. Back about the time that they really started removing sulfur from diesel around 1992 John deere came out with a service bulletin recommending the use of Stanadyne fuel conditioner. I followed their recommendation and noticed a dramatic increase in performance in my tractor engines. I have used it ever since and with 1000's of hours over the years never had an injection failure. For what its worth I think its worth the cost. North America has some of the poorest quality diesel of anywhere on the planet.