Front wheel spacers for stability, REALLY?

[Shawn T. W.]

Internet "advice" and "myths" abound about this subject, mostly due to the pivoting front axle, but also concern for wheel bearings ... I'm a firm believer that they do help, in certain conditions!

I added 1.3" wheel spacers to the front of my SCUT Massey Ferguson GC 1725 MB, and 3" spacers to the rear axle, also filled all tires to 75% full with windshield washer fluid ... For additional traction and lowering the center of gravity.

The FACT of the matter, is the pivoting front axle can only pivot so far, once it reaches that point, common sense just says it starts to provide additional support. (Some people say you're already going to be tipping over by that point, I didn't find that to be true on my tractor!)

Here is what I did, to prove to myself, with my own tractor ... You don't need to believe me, just try it for yourself!

I had built some small ramps out of 2X12's which are 1.5" thick ... I drove the front tire up onto the second one, so three inches difference from the concrete pad I was parked on ... Still had a small 1/4" gap until the axle stop hits the frame ... No extra support.

Here I drove it up onto the third board, 4.5" of height, on a concrete pad, and look! Tractor is still upright, and frame and axle stop are making contact!

Someone more knowledgeable and experienced than me, on another forum said "you didn't do it right, you need to do the back axle" ... So I did!

I had my backhoe (BH) on, and set it up to "catch me" if it should "tip too far"! I backed it up onto a 8" ramp! Notice the front tire is off the ground by over 2", and it's not tipped over either!

Look at the other side ... With that additional weight if the BH hanging off like that, it still didn't tip over!

Look at the axle, it's bottomed out! Firmly planted on the frame rail!

I was told by the same person AGAIN, "that I didn't do it right"! As I should have used the same wooden 4.5" ramp ... So I did!

Front tire didn't lift off the ground, but axle was touching the frame on the other side ... Sorry I seemed to have lost that picture ...

Now, like I said at the beginning of this post ... It will ONLY provide extra side stability under certain conditions!

Here is when it will not help you! If your just going across a steep side hill, but ground is relatively smooth, no bumps or dips. (In my case a rock, root or dip of 4.5" will start to get extra stability benefit from front spacers) But like this smooth but side angle, will not gain any side stability with front spacers, rear spacers ... DEFINITELY!

I have quite a few rocks in places that jut up out of the ground, and my land isn't all flat ... So I have spacers on!

I currently have over 750 hours on these wheel spacers, no problems with bearings, nor have I ever tipped over, yet!

Once I retire in 23 months I plan to further experiment with actually seeing where it tips over (without me on it!) without any spacers, then only rear, then only front, than both front and rear spacers ... But, at this time as an over the road truck driver, gone most the time, I simply do not have the time to do this! You're more than welcome to in the mean time, let us all know what you find out!

 

[TerryR]

Your tests in a static situation (the tractor not moving) have little to do with what happens when you are driving along and suddenly hit a bump or hole. That's what you really need to test, as it's the momentum of the tractor already tipping that has the potential for it to continue tipping when the front axil hits the stops. Of course testing this could prove hazardous to your health.

 

[Shawn T. W.]

Obviously kinetic energy will change results, how much is transfered will be directly effected by how much speed is involved ...

Common sense tells me in rough conditions to go slow, very slow ...

But nevertheless a wider stance will always be more stable in every situation.

 

[bmaverick]

Depending on the tractor and the brand of manufacture, wheel spacer use would be defined in the OPS manuals.

Both Deere and Yanmar for their common machines provide size and material info for wheel spacers to use.

For CUT, Yanmar mentions not to exceed 100mm or 4-inches.

If you were to mow steep ditches or inclines, a dual wheel setup would be ideal.

 

[Jstpssng]

Not quite the same, but I noted a significant difference in stability when I widened the rear stance on my L3301, as well as added wheel weights. Riding that used to be like a carnival ride; rather scary at times.

 

[Too many Kubotas]

I put spacers front and rear on the CK2620, primarily to be able to straddle irrigation ditches, but they definitely also help with rollover resistance.

It's somewhat common that a front tire is off the ground with that one, and while using the backhoe as a counterweight sure helps, and the outrigger(s) as a safety net, there's no doubt that even the front spacers do their part in keeping the Kioti upright.

 

[Shawn T. W.]

Yes, spacers (both front and rear) also help straddle a ditch just dug with a BH too, the smaller the tractor, the more noticeable it becomes!

They also give you room to put on tire chains!

 

[RayIN]

I set my Massey Ferguson rears out 3" on each side. The tractor feels much more stable mowing hillsides. The front axle width is immaterial IMO, unless you have a tricycle front end.

 

[WranglerX]

YEs 3 inch spacers on rear of my GC 1715...BUT don't see necessity for front wheel spacers as rear track is plenty wide... And since front axle pivots.....

 

[NUTTERDW]

Internet "advice" and "myths" abound about this subject, mostly due to the pivoting front axle, but also concern for wheel bearings ... I'm a firm believer that they do help, in certain conditions!

I added 1.3" wheel spacers to the front of my SCUT Massey Ferguson GC 1725 MB, and 3" spacers to the rear axle, also filled all tires to 75% full with windshield washer fluid ... For additional traction and lowering the center of gravity.

View attachment 5504085

View attachment 5504086

The FACT of the matter, is the pivoting front axle can only pivot so far, once it reaches that point, common sense just says it starts to provide additional support. (Some people say you're already going to be tipping over by that point, I didn't find that to be true on my tractor!)

Here is what I did, to prove to myself, with my own tractor ... You don't need to believe me, just try it for yourself!

I had built some small ramps out of 2X12's which are 1.5" thick ... I drove the front tire up onto the second one, so three inches difference from the concrete pad I was parked on ... Still had a small 1/4" gap until the axle stop hits the frame ... No extra support.

View attachment 5504077

Here I drove it up onto the third board, 4.5" of height, on a concrete pad, and look! Tractor is still upright, and frame and axle stop are making contact!

View attachment 5504078

Someone more knowledgeable and experienced than me, on another forum said "you didn't do it right, you need to do the back axle" ... So I did!

I had my backhoe (BH) on, and set it up to "catch me" if it should "tip too far"! I backed it up onto a 8" ramp! Notice the front tire is off the ground by over 2", and it's not tipped over either!

View attachment 5504079

View attachment 5504081

Look at the other side ... With that additional weight if the BH hanging off like that, it still didn't tip over!

View attachment 5504082

Look at the axle, it's bottomed out! Firmly planted on the frame rail!

View attachment 5504084

I was told by the same person AGAIN, "that I didn't do it right"! As I should have used the same wooden 4.5" ramp ... So I did!

View attachment 5504093

Front tire didn't lift off the ground, but axle was touching the frame on the other side ... Sorry I seemed to have lost that picture ...

Now, like I said at the beginning of this post ... It will ONLY provide extra side stability under certain conditions!

Here is when it will not help you! If your just going across a steep side hill, but ground is relatively smooth, no bumps or dips. (In my case a rock, root or dip of 4.5" will start to get extra stability benefit from front spacers) But like this smooth but side angle, will not gain any side stability with front spacers, rear spacers ... DEFINITELY!

View attachment 5504088

I have quite a few rocks in places that jut up out of the ground, and my land isn't all flat ... So I have spacers on!

View attachment 5504089

View attachment 5504090

I currently have over 750 hours on these wheel spacers, no problems with bearings, nor have I ever tipped over, yet!

Once I retire in 23 months I plan to further experiment with actually seeing where it tips over (without me on it!) without any spacers, then only rear, then only front, than both front and rear spacers ... But, at this time as an over the road truck driver, gone most the time, I simply do not have the time to do this! You're more than welcome to in the mean time, let us all know what you find out!

I just know that I do't want to be on my 53 hp tractor if the rear wheel is two feet off the ground. I was unloading a full skid of roofing shingles and I jerked the loader when I was dropping it to the ground and that is how high the rear wheel was before the front end caught it. I at least was on level ground and was able to lower the load with out any problem.i don't ever want to see that rear wheel of the ground on a hill side. the front may or may not stop it. I'm 82 and have driven tractors on these West Virginia Hills all of my life and I have managed to keep my tractor on its wheels. My dad was not as fortunate! He rolled his twice and walked away. I was 10 and 12 when I watched it roll. I did not ever want to see its again!!!!

 

[Too many Kubotas]

I just know that I do't want to be on my 53 hp tractor if the rear wheel is two feet off the ground. I was unloading a full skid of roofing shingles and I jerked the loader when I was dropping it to the ground and that is how high the rear wheel was before the front end caught it.

I sure don't mind the extra leverage a front spacer provides in a situation like that.

Having rolled plenty of times (so far never with a tractor), having a rear wheel off the ground may not feel pleasant, but there's usually a way to prevent a tractor from ending up on its side.

Quickly lowering the loader and/or rear implement should help, and so can the time proven "when in doubt, throttle out". As in steer to the low side and floor it.

 

[RayIN]

Harry Ferguson tractors have the widest wheel spacing I've ever seen I always wanted to set mine out to the max, but never found the energy and time together:

 

[zzvyb6]

The major problems here are: 1. Front wheel spacers also raise the steering effort because of the increase in the "scrub radius", even if you keep your speed up. So as wide as possible rears and consider the track difference if you plan to trailer it. The front pivot issue is usually viewed as a 'dynamics' problem. As the tractor rolls and engages the axle's rotation stop, there is a HUGE vertical load spike which can wash out any remaining sideforce. (This is a good thing to lessen the roll moment and roll torque (rate of change of moment) ).

I've found the steering effort increases to be a major consideration because I can and do want to turn downhill as quickly as possible to defuse the situation. If your steering effort pump can't keep up with the needed extra flow for the higherer load and steering speed ('pump blockage'), you've lost a possible life-saving advantage.

If you really have concerns, you can accurately compute the angle at which a roll might occur by using suitable scales and an inclinometer. Pull the tractor from a firm connection point at the measured (using the scales) F/A cg location. Then slowli pull in a few increments and record the wheel loads and the angle. With a half dozen sets of angles and wheel weights, You can project at what angle the wheel loads would go to zero. Then mount the inclinometer on the dash and don't go anywhere near the angle you projected. Called a 'SidePull' Test, used by auto, truck, race car, and other rolling machinery. You're not going to go near an anglethat would roll it over during the test, but get enough data to do a good projection (linear, parabolic, log, exponential, you know, math stuff. Good science project for a grade school class.

 

[Too many Kubotas]

My backhoes aren't supposed to be subjected to more than 15 degrees, and have a factory inclinometer on the dash, but I've exceeded 20 a few times.

Not exactly apples to apples as they also have relatively soft long travel suspension front and rear. Sometimes that works for me, other times against me.

Side hilling is obviously one example, but where the suspension is most often a drawback is when lifting the rear end over a ditch to straddle it. Then the lift must be about 18 inches higher than normal to get the rear tires off the ground.

That gets a bit sketchy since now the outriggers won't get close to the ground.