Found this during oil filter change

Chargerdude70 · Jul 9, 2015

Anyone know what this white item is? Its in the exact position in picture as when I took the filter off. At first I thought it was part of the old filter that had broken off. When inspected, the filter was intact.

George2615 · Jul 9, 2015

It looks like a piece of paper blocking the hole the oil goes through.

Chargerdude70 · Jul 9, 2015

thank you for the reply...no..its a piece of plastic...shaped like a cone..what you see in the picture is the back side of it...or flat side....

Fawken · Jul 9, 2015

Looks like the paper seal from a quart bottle of oil. Why would you put it there? Seems to me it would block the oil flow.

Chargerdude70 · Jul 9, 2015

i didnt put it there...it was there when i took the old filter off...and this is the first 50hr service filter change to boot

Fawken · Jul 9, 2015

Back when I did my first hydro change and filter clean (which was way past due) I found where the dealer had punched a hole in one end of the micro-screen filter so they could use one that fits in a cartridge instead of the OEM filter which has a bolt through it. Made me mad, but it worked so I let it go.

Leejohn · Jul 9, 2015

I would be sending that picture to LS. That filter had to be working in bypass all the time and the oil never got filtered. I would start all over with the 50 hr service and ask them to pay for the 1st one. If you haven't dropped the oil maybe just put a new filter on and run for 6 to 8 hrs then do the full 50hr service.

Sysop · Jul 9, 2015

Yes, being cone shaped I'd say it was a shipping plug on it that should have been removed before a filter was installed.

flyerdan · Jul 9, 2015

It looks like some kind of factory plug to keep debris out during engine assembly. If so, it's a poor idea. They should use a cap plug that also covers the external thread so it must be removed before the filter will go on.

Chargerdude70 · Jul 10, 2015

Leejohn said:
I would be sending that picture to LS. That filter had to be working in bypass all the time and the oil never got filtered. I would start all over with the 50 hr service and ask them to pay for the 1st one. If you haven't dropped the oil maybe just put a new filter on and run for 6 to 8 hrs then do the full 50hr service.

This was my thought and worry.

Chargerdude70 · Jul 10, 2015

flyerdan said:
It looks like some kind of factory plug to keep debris out during engine assembly. If so, it's a poor idea. They should use a cap plug that also covers the external thread so it must be removed before the filter will go on.

agreed

MoKelly · Jul 10, 2015

Wow. That is pretty bad.

This is another reason to do the 50 hour maintainance yourself. I suspect had the dealer done the work they never would have told you about failure to remove the cap. Worse yet, they still wouldn't have removed the cap!

MoKelly

Chargerdude70 · Jul 10, 2015

Just got off the phone with my dealer. He wants me to send a pic of the little white item so he can send to LS. Of coarse he said he had never seen anything like that. But also says that if the filter had oil in it, it was getting filtered. I question that logic. I sent an email to LS and haven't received a reply yet. I also told my dealer I was going by the book for the 50hr service and changing both the oil and hyd filters. He said the book is wrong and that it should say to change oil as well. I explained if going by the book, the oil would still be good if it wasn't for it not being filtered and I shouldn't be charged for that oil change. But he stands on the requirement of having to change it anyways at 50hrs, so the cost of fresh oil is irrelevant. Also the fact that there is a 5yr warranty on the powertrain should anything do go wrong. I have a feeling this is going to be swept under the carpet.

windcatcher · Jul 10, 2015

Chargerdude70 said:
Just got off the phone with my dealer. He wants me to send a pic of the little white item so he can send to LS. Of coarse he said he had never seen anything like that. But also says that if the filter had oil in it, it was getting filtered. I question that logic. I sent an email to LS and haven't received a reply yet. I also told my dealer I was going by the book for the 50hr service and changing both the oil and hyd filters. He said the book is wrong and that it should say to change oil as well. I explained if going by the book, the oil would still be good if it wasn't for it not being filtered and I shouldn't be charged for that oil change. But he stands on the requirement of having to change it anyways at 50hrs, so the cost of fresh oil is irrelevant. Also the fact that there is a 5yr warranty on the powertrain should anything do go wrong. I have a feeling this is going to be swept under the carpet.

Chargerdude, my family ran an automobile repair business from the early 1960's into the early 1980's. We rebuilt many an automobile, truck, irrigation, etc engine. One of the biggest things we tried to instill in people is how important that first oil change is.

When an engine is new, the tolerances should be very tight if it is built right. Because of that, tiny particles of metal shavings come off and end up suspended for the most part in the oil. If left in the oil, those shavings can and will cut into the engine seals and do other damage.

Best practice is to run the engine for a little bit just before the first scheduled oil change. This helps suspend those shavings in the oil. Then shut the engine down and drain it as quickly as you can without getting burned.

Look at the oil in the catch pan/basin. You should see sort of a silvery sheen to the oil. Those are metal shavings.

These are hard lessons to teach people until they finally realize what is going on. Driving a new engine for too many miles or hours before that initial oil change causes damage that can only be repaired by a full tear down and parts replacement.

I feel for you on your tractor. You wouldn't believe what I'm going through myself.

BKBrown · Jul 10, 2015

I'm curious what that plug looks like once you pull it out ?

That oil could not possibly have been filtered.

I'd change the oil and maybe change it 2 times. The manufacturer should have some concerns about that being in there.

sd455dan · Jul 10, 2015

what a bummer on a New tractor-

my worry would be possible scoring ( due to metal particles in un filtered oil) of the new rod and main bearings. there's only around .002 inch clearance and the bearing material is softer than the crankshaft so that (large) metal particles just embed or score the bearings versus damaging the crankshaft.

On the other hand many engines operate with some bypass all the time. Especially during cold start ups with thick oil.
Most filters with built in bypass and block mounted bypass generally need less than 10 psi difference ( filter in-out) to start bypass anyway and many cars built in the 1950s only partially filtered engine oil.

Still If it were me- and I was offered a new replacement tractor there is no doubt that it would be accepted.

whoever mounted that filter over a pre assembly plug, had no idea of how oil filtration works and needs some basic training... Wonder How many other new engine blocks he applied the same assembly procedure to??

Chargerdude70 · Jul 10, 2015

BKBrown said:
I'm curious what that plug looks like once you pull it out ?

That oil could not possibly have been filtered. I'd change the oil and maybe change it 2 times. The manufacturer should have some concerns about that being in there.

Pics added to OP

Woodshaver · Jul 10, 2015

Do you guys recommend we change our own oil at 50hrs. to see if this plug is in?
Afraid as said before the dealer my just remove if and not tell you.

Chargerdude70 · Jul 10, 2015

sd455dan said:
what a bummer on a New tractor-

my worry would be possible scoring ( due to metal particles in un filtered oil) of the new rod and main bearings. there's only around .002 inch clearance and the bearing material is softer than the crankshaft so that (large) metal particles just embed or score the bearings versus damaging the crankshaft.

On the other hand many engines operate with some bypass all the time. Especially during cold start ups with thick oil.
Most filters with built in bypass and block mounted bypass generally need less than 10 psi difference ( filter in-out) to start bypass anyway and many cars built in the 1950s only partially filtered engine oil.

Still If it were me- and I was offered a new replacement tractor there is no doubt that it would be accepted.

whoever mounted that filter over a pre assembly plug, had no idea of how oil filtration works and needs some basic training... Wonder How many other new engine blocks he applied the same assembly procedure to??

Wish full thinking but if it were to happen, I would definitely go bigger...lol

s219 · Jul 10, 2015

Some oil filters have an anti-drainback valve in them to prevent all the engine's oil from draining back into the pan when shut off, which could cause a brief oil-starvation issue on the next start. The ones I have seen had a spring and little stopper that would block flow (the spring is weak enough to be overcome by oil pump flow when the engine is running). And actually, once I replaced one of those special filters with an aftermarket filter that was missing the anti-drainback valve, and sure as rain the engine had a bearing "rap" on every start until we remedied the problem. That's when I learned about this (at age 12 or so).

I have no idea if that little white piece is part of one of these valves, or if LS even uses them in their filters. Have you looked in the filter to see if it could have broke off of a mating mechanism inside?