Ford 2000 3-cyl gasser losing power with any load on PTO-suggestions needed to fix

   / Ford 2000 3-cyl gasser losing power with any load on PTO-suggestions needed to fix
  • Thread Starter
#21  
If it runs good static, but has problems when load or rpm changes, that's when you need to look at the advance ( and governor ). a bad advance can run good in one range, and be ragged in other.

SG-

This lead sounds promising.

In regards to the governor, if I open the throttle manually, there is a vigorous and proportional governor-induced pull back to close the throttle. The higher the PRM, the greater the "pull back" by the governor mechanism to try to avoid out-of-range engine speeds. I assumed this implied that the governor is working reasonably well. unfortunately, the engine continues run ragged, even with my override of the governor (by holding the throttle open).

An ignition problem? How do you recommend that I check the advance? I have no experience in ignition, but I am not afraid to learn. I have a timing light. The manual suggests that I disconnect the vacuum line to the distributor to accurately measure the timing, correct?

By the way, a big "thank you" to all of you, I appreciate everyone's advice and insight.
 
   / Ford 2000 3-cyl gasser losing power with any load on PTO-suggestions needed to fix
  • Thread Starter
#22  
One more question:

When the manual suggests "pulling the vacuum line to the distributor" to test the timing, I assume they mean this metal hose (indicated by orange rectangle in picture below), correct?

Vacuum.jpg
 
   / Ford 2000 3-cyl gasser losing power with any load on PTO-suggestions needed to fix #23  
someone not on a phone will have to look at the pic it's only about 2" for me.

but yeah, look at your vac advance. I'd forget about the gov for now, especially if it pulled back well when you manually goosed it.
 
   / Ford 2000 3-cyl gasser losing power with any load on PTO-suggestions needed to fix #24  
Yes. That's the one. My guess is that the timing is probably o.k. I was thinking the vacuum line was rubber and had deteriorated. The rubber diaphragm in the diaphragm assembly may be shot. I would use a mity vac to check it.
 
   / Ford 2000 3-cyl gasser losing power with any load on PTO-suggestions needed to fix
  • Thread Starter
#25  
Update:

Still no solution, unfortunately.

The most recent attempt to fix the problem included several maneuvers: I pulled the air filter line off the carb and ran it briefly without the airbox and filters-no help. Next, I disconnected the vacuum advance line off the dissy-no help. Next, per the shop manual, I set the timing at 650-700 rpm to +2 to-2 degrees without the vacuum advance line connected to the diaphragm on the dissy-not much help. It seemed to run a little less ragged at 1200-1500 rpm, but not much. Finally, I gave up on the timing light and shop manual and played with the timing on the dissy at 1400-1500 rpm setting it by "ear"-not much help either. Ran about the same.

There is vacuum being pulled at the vacuum line, by the way.

With the new timing settings, I put an implement on the tractor (a soil conditioner) and attempted to drag our horse riding arenas (pure drag, no PTO used). The engine seemed to run a bit better at first, but the raggedness came back completely with time and seemed to get worse as the engine warmed up. No amount of choke or throttle adjustment seemed to help the problem. If I depress the clutch, the problem gets slightly better, but even then it persists, emphasizing that it has little to do with the load on the tractor or the PTO as I originally had thought.

To summarize the attempts to fix the problem may be of some value. The following have been performed:

1. Fuel tank drained and inspected (clean as a whistle).
2. New fuel tank stopcock placed with a fuel filter as the old one had fallen off.
3. Fuel filter on the old fuel pump was filled with debris and removed, the debris flushed out of the fuel lines and filter and gasket were replaced. Tractor was restarted and the this filter was reexamined and no more debris was found.
4. Fuel filter at the sediment bowl was removed, found to be clean, cleaned anyways and reinstalled. No debris in sediment bowl.
5. Fuel filter on the carb fuel intake line was removed (this is the fourth and final filter in the system), found to be clean, cleaned anyways and reinstalled.
6. Carburetor (original Holley) was removed, completely disassembled, soaked for hours in a gallon of carb cleaner, cleaned subsequently with compressed air and all passages were blown out with carb and choke cleaner. Then using an original CNH rebuild kit the carb was rebuilt to specs. The float had no leaks upon inspection. Carb reinstalled after all linkages were cleaned and lubed.
7. The governor was tested by opening the throttle by hand and revving the engine, it exerted a strong and proportional "pull back" suggesting it is working appropriately.
8. New plugs (gap 0.025).
9. Plug wires only 18 mos old. Inspected carefully for damage, none found.
10. New CNH points (set at 0.025), new condenser, new rotor. Dissy cap, an original Motorcraft part was also 18 mos. old and was inspected and found to be normal and reused.
11. Coil wire to dissy cap was replaced as old electrodes broke off upon removal.
12. New coil.
13. New fuel pump.
14. Allow carb to suck air without any filtration whatsoever-no help.
15. Multiple adjustments to the timing and vacuum advance as outlined above-no help.

The tractor starts and idles great after all of these changes, but wont run with power.

What have I missed?

Bad gas? The same fuel storage tank provides fuel to multiple other engines on the farm without problem. There is an appropriate amount of fuel stabilizer in the storage tank and has been since the fuel was purchased. The is a sediment filter on the storage tank which was last replaced 250 gallons ago. Fuel in the tank is approximately 14 months old.

Bad timing/bad distributor? I have learned that the timing advance is set at low RPM by the vacuum diaphragm, but at higher RPM by the centrifugal advance mechanism within the distributor itself. It seems that I have verified that the vacuum advance mechanism is not the culprit. The raggedness of the engine is clearly insignificant at idle and very reproducible at mid-range and high RPM. Does this suggest that I need to look at the centrifugal advance mechanism on the dissy, next?

I didn't think fixing this problem would be this hard.
 
   / Ford 2000 3-cyl gasser losing power with any load on PTO-suggestions needed to fix #26  
Is the rotor firmly on the distributor shaft ( not loose ) and no bushing side play in the shaft?
 
   / Ford 2000 3-cyl gasser losing power with any load on PTO-suggestions needed to fix #27  
As soundguy suggested, doublecheck that rotor. My machine started running funky, still firing on all four but lacking in power. Pulled the cap today to find this:
 

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   / Ford 2000 3-cyl gasser losing power with any load on PTO-suggestions needed to fix
  • Thread Starter
#28  
Is the rotor firmly on the distributor shaft ( not loose ) and no bushing side play in the shaft?

SG/Schaeff - I will check and post back.

I am also going to borrow a compression tester from O'Reilly's Auto Parts and perform a compression test on a warm engine. I'll post back those results as well. It was suggested that a malfunctioning valve or cylinder could possibly be a potential cause of my problem. I guess it never hurts to check.

When I pulled the old plugs there was no real "befouling" of any of the electrodes, though. The tractor does not smoke either while the engine is cold or warm and does not burn oil. I have changed the oil at least 3 times in the last 4 and half years and have never noticed any antifreeze or water in the engine oil. In addition, I had to replace the water pump 2 years ago and there was no oil in the coolant, then, but I will check again.
 
   / Ford 2000 3-cyl gasser losing power with any load on PTO-suggestions needed to fix #29  
A stuck or sticky valve will be a miss.

Still a comp check won't hurt and will give you an idea of engine health.

Let us know on the rotor. A loose one will cause erratic timing.
 
   / Ford 2000 3-cyl gasser losing power with any load on PTO-suggestions needed to fix
  • Thread Starter
#30  
Update:

Drained fuel tank and added 4.5 gals of fresh gasoline-did not help.

Warmed engine and pulled all three plugs. These plugs, only 3-4 weeks old were already coated with back hydrocarbon sediment...hmmm. Compression testing revealed all three holes were generating identical pressures.

Reinspected distributor cap- normal.

Inspected rotor- Normal appearance and seated fully down on the distributor shaft.

Distributor shaft bushing play was then assessed. Below are two videos which illustrate what we found:

Distributor shaft laxity 2. Ford 2 tractor - YouTube

Distributor shaft laxity Ford 2 - YouTube

While not as obvious on the first video, the distributor shaft had enough play to spread the points apart significantly. The volume of "play" is best seen in the second video.

We next put a timing light on all three spark plug wires just to see if the firing was "rhythmic" or not. Watch the next video carefully and listen to the engine sputter and backfire in the background as the timing light seems to confirm the absence of predictable, rhythmic cycling:


So, are these findings most compatible with a bad distributor? Maybe this also explains the fouling of the fresh plugs.

We tried to do a dwell angle analysis using a multimeter. The multimeter had settings for 4, 6 and 8 cylinder engines. We selected each of these in turn and found that the variation seemed to be greater than the owner's manual recs of 35-38 degrees.
 

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