Ford 2000 3-cyl gasser losing power with any load on PTO-suggestions needed to fix

[Soundguy]

Definately hear the missing.

On the shaft play. Rotational play is ok, to an extent, because you are seeing the advance movement. side play, almost none is the acceptable answer, because you are looking at a points gap that will change +/1 by the amount of the play.

Try this. set your points gap a HAIR on the tight side. IE.. .023-.024 And then check. If it runs better.. your distribuitor shaft side play is likely too much, and when points are set .025-.028 then you are getting too much gap. ( you can also try the opposite of setting on the high side .027-.029 ) and observe / compare results.

Keep in mind these are tests, not fixes. running with too small a gap will cause arcing and pitting. trying to run with too large a gap, and +variable gap, and you might get (more) missing.

Lastly, don't overlook wet oily plugs. If you have bad oil control rings, you could be fouling out a plug from pumping oil, and causing the missing.

does it run ok with new plugs till it oils up? if yes, pop in some anti foulers and see what you get.

 

[tmac196]

Definately hear the missing.

On the shaft play. Rotational play is ok, to an extent, because you are seeing the advance movement. side play, almost none is the acceptable answer, because you are looking at a points gap that will change +/1 by the amount of the play.

Try this. set your points gap a HAIR on the tight side. IE.. .023-.024 And then check. If it runs better.. your distribuitor shaft side play is likely too much, and when points are set .025-.028 then you are getting too much gap. ( you can also try the opposite of setting on the high side .027-.029 ) and observe / compare results.

Keep in mind these are tests, not fixes. running with too small a gap will cause arcing and pitting. trying to run with too large a gap, and +variable gap, and you might get (more) missing.

Lastly, don't overlook wet oily plugs. If you have bad oil control rings, you could be fouling out a plug from pumping oil, and causing the missing.

does it run ok with new plugs till it oils up? if yes, pop in some anti foulers and see what you get.

SG-

I purchased a new distributor from Steiner Tractor Parts. There are no rebuild kits readily available for old distributors. There is zero side play on the shaft of the new distributor. Will post back the results after the installation.

BTW-we did tighten the points a bit and the engine ran considerably more rough with that adjustment. At that point I decided to replace the dissy, so I quit worrying about point adjustments.

Thank you for the help. I will post a follow up after the distributor is installed.

 

[Soundguy]

good deal. Yep.. if you have variable side play, points adjustment becomes a gamble. you never know where in that play your static points gap really is. setting tight, and on the loose side of the play, you may actually get almost NO gap when the play tight side comes up.

 

[tmac196]

Update:

Spent six hours working on the tractor yesterday and, unfortunately, I have not solved my problem...

New distributor from Steiner Tractor Parts. Set points at 0.025. Set engine to TDC on cylinder one. Removed old distributor and carefully placed new one. Rotor was aligned perfectly at number one cylinder on new dissy and on marks made on tractor block. Started tractor and it ran more roughly than before. Timing set to 0 degrees. Dwell angle perfect at 17.5-19 degrees, but I could not throttle up. If I tried, the engine ran more roughly and RPMs would not/ could not climb. Also noticed a bizarre and idiosyncratic reaction where the gauges and the instrument lights were not working. Battery read 13.3V, but there was not enough RPM to get the generator to produce a charge.

Pulled plug wires 1-2-3 in turn and found engine ran even more roughly with each pull indicating that we did not have a dead cylinder. Pulled plug wires to observe for spark and noticed good spark with each plug wire.

Put old dissy back in and the engine idled better and the gauges worked, but of course, the original problem persisted. By the way, the gauges work with the old dissy and the battery charged appropriately, so the gennie does work.

Pulled old dissy and replaced with new dissy (again) and gauges quit and the rough, sluggish idle returned. Rechecked timing -2 to +2 degrees, dwell was ok, same as before. Attempted to adjust the timing by ear and rotating the distributor in either direction made no difference whatsoever. With new dissy I could not get tractor RPMs out of idle. Timing light showed rhythmic flashes for each spark plug wire with new dissy.

Switched new rotor for old rotor-No change.

Pulled new dissy up and restabbed it back in with the next gear clockwise and counterclockwise, but rotor was then so far off the mark (when the gears were fully engaged) that we didn't even try to start it. We thought we had it right as the timing and dwell angles were perfect in it's original position anyways.

Tried to switch dissy caps, but the new one and the old one were not compatible. Inspected both caps under high intensity lighting and good magnification and no defects were found.

New coil getting good voltage.

Pulled new dissy and put old one back in. Timing set to specs, dwell angles within range, gauges work- but the original rough running engine persists.

So what am I missing?

 

[shaeff]

This may be a total shot in the dark, is the exhaust plugged up? I was out working my machine doing some heavy clearing, was running like a top. I wasn't paying close enough attention, maybe was in a rush, and a large tree trunk snuck up and smashed my exhaust.

On my machine (also a gas job) the exhaust runs under the foot rest. It now loads up and runs rich. Fine at idle, and it'll run at PTO rpm, but not smoothly like it did before I crushed the exhaust.

 

[tmac196]

This may be a total shot in the dark, is the exhaust plugged up? I was out working my machine doing some heavy clearing, was running like a top. I wasn't paying close enough attention, maybe was in a rush, and a large tree trunk snuck up and smashed my exhaust.

On my machine (also a gas job) the exhaust runs under the foot rest. It now loads up and runs rich. Fine at idle, and it'll run at PTO rpm, but not smoothly like it did before I crushed the exhaust.

I don't think so, but I certainly will check. Thanks for the tip.

 

[tmac196]

Exhaust and muffler appear fine.

 

[DJ54]

How far apart did you tear the carb. down..?? I did not realize it, until I just looked, that the Holley carb. has an accelerator pump. The assembly is # 14 and #18 in this exploded view: Official New Holland Online Parts Store and Online Parts Catalog for New Holland and Ford Tractors.

The sound your 2000 makes when trying to accelerate, brought a flash back to the sound my old '74 Chevy pickup made, when they first put ethanol in fuel, and ate the accelerator pump rubber seals in it. Lots of hesitation on acceleration, semi-backfiring, etc.

Just wondering if it could be that, or, with all of the debris in the fuel system, if some particles made it that far plugging it, or making it non-functional.

The bad thing is, looks like parts are not serviceable anymore. Although it does say to contact your dealer if you need assistance. So, either they are totally N/A, or, parts from another Holley will fit, from another application.

Seems I recall Soundguy replaced the Holley on his with another carb., possibly a Marvel-Schebler..?? It seems the subject came up a few years back, when we were discussing fuel economy. I know my 3 cyl. 2000 sure likes it's fuel, and I have it leaned about as far as I can go.

Just some food for thought.

 

[Soundguy]

zenith carb. they are a hair spendy .. but easier than a finicky holley

 

[tmac196]

How far apart did you tear the carb. down..?? I did not realize it, until I just looked, that the Holley carb. has an accelerator pump. The assembly is # 14 and #18 in this exploded view: Official New Holland Online Parts Store and Online Parts Catalog for New Holland and Ford Tractors.

The sound your 2000 makes when trying to accelerate, brought a flash back to the sound my old '74 Chevy pickup made, when they first put ethanol in fuel, and ate the accelerator pump rubber seals in it. Lots of hesitation on acceleration, semi-backfiring, etc.

Just wondering if it could be that, or, with all of the debris in the fuel system, if some particles made it that far plugging it, or making it non-functional.

The bad thing is, looks like parts are not serviceable anymore. Although it does say to contact your dealer if you need assistance. So, either they are totally N/A, or, parts from another Holley will fit, from another application.

Seems I recall Soundguy replaced the Holley on his with another carb., possibly a Marvel-Schebler..?? It seems the subject came up a few years back, when we were discussing fuel economy. I know my 3 cyl. 2000 sure likes it's fuel, and I have it leaned about as far as I can go.

Just some food for thought.

DJ54- Thanks for the feedback.

The carb rebuild was a complete one.

My 2000 was manufactured in September 1965 (per serial number), so I do not have a Holley with the part which you inquired about. Instead, my carb has part #17 as shown (Body & Plugs Assy., Metering, 2000, Years: 01-JAN-65-30-SEP-66) which I removed, cleaned, replaced the gasket and reinstalled. In addition, the accelerator pump piston assembly (Part #14), was completely replaced as part of the rebuild kit.

As of now, the tractor is in the hands of the local dealership as I have exhausted my mechanic skills and have not fixed the problem. I will post back an update when I have one.