Ford 1700 starting problems

[cjfling]

OK, I checked the tightness of the glow plugs and they were fine. I then pulled the fuel hose off from the injector pump to check for flow. There was a steady stream that was a little less then the thickness of a plain pencil (sorry for the lack of a technical term/measurement). While I had it off I decide to just drain the off road/red diesel. As you can imagine the tank was full so it was taking a while. Towards the end the flow really slowed down. At that point I decided to turn the valve off and remove the tank. After getting the fuel out, I found a piece of rusted sheet metal about a half inch by inch and half. I also heard something banging around in the tank. With a flashlight a could see what appears to be a rusted, metal rod/tubing about 8 inches long. In the field I was wasn't able to get it out, but I plan to take some needle nose pliers to it later today. With the light, I could definitely see some rusting in the tank. I'm guessing the long piece could even be off a seam inside the tank. As promised, here are some pics...



Here is the new alternator I installed and the starter that was rebuilt.



Here is the famous injector pump:



Off hand does anyone know where that wire that is tapped up is supposed to go. I haven't looked in the book yet, but it travels to that area with the same wire that powers the glow plugs. More pictures to come...

Thanks to all.

 

[jinman]

Off hand does anyone know where that wire that is tapped up is supposed to go. I haven't looked in the book yet, but it travels to that area with the same wire that powers the glow plugs. More pictures to come...

Thanks to all.

From a picture in Pete Clausen's thread, I think that wire goes to an oil pressure sensing element down near to where the oil dipstick is located.

 

[randy41]

the long metal rod/tubing could be for the fuel gauge....does your fuel gauge work?

 

[JC-jetro]

Jim,
You are right. The wire does go to oil pressure sending unit.



Randy,

1700 does not have fuel gauge but it has a sight glass only that is not glass and is only a tube. mine was so brown that I could not see level of fuel in the tank so I changes it with 1/4" Poly Ethelyn clear tubing.




CJ,

Make sure that you open the screws partially open for air in the bowl to scape. On big screw on the upper right side of the injector can be opened to remove the air all the way up to the plunger/pistons of the pump. You then crack the nuts on injector pump (two) and crank a few times to see diesel and air bubbles coming out. When the fuel come up without bubble tighten the nuts, preheat , Make sure to cross you fingers, praying would not hurt either and crank.


JC,


ps. I have in the last 8 years ran my tank empty twice. 1st time I did not know what was going on, second time I was mowing the ditch in front of the property. I was so focused not to roll over the tractor so I lost my focus of how much diesel I had. Well, shame on me , yesterday for the 3rd time I lost prime to the injector pump in the same dang ditch, exactly when it happens 5-6 years ago. Th funny thing was, I knew I was low on diesel, Mowed the right of way just before I went to the barn but when I tried to come out of ditch got the brush hog stuck for just 2 seconds, and that was enough for the fuel level to get cockeyed in the tank and pump sucked air. I was not a happy camper.

 

[cjfling]

I got my needle nose pliers out and removed an 8 inch stick. I guess either someone was jacking with me or they had used it to check the fuel level and dropped it in. The rusting in the tank was minor from what I can see. I swished around some fresh fuel to clean out the tank and drained it for burning. I hooked everything back up added about a gallon of the same fuel I had drained, turned the tank back on, bled the fuel system, and still had the same starting issue. It would turn over almost as fast as when it's actually running and then as soon as you let go of the key it would die. I had a second person there with me this time and then helped me pull it back into the barn so it wasn't sitting out. Next time I'm out, I'm going to pull the hose from the injector and check the flow again. When I had the tank out, I saw a rubber piece when I removed the shut off valve from the tank that had a really small whole in it for the fuel to pass. I'm assuming that is supposed to be there for a gasket/seal. It looked like it belonged, but the hole sure look small for the amount of fuel I saw coming out of the hose to the injector the first time. After I get this fixed up, I'll look in to that oil pressure sending unit. I'm pretty sure there is a pipe nipple in that hole with a gauge on it. You can see the top of the gauge in the bottom left of this pic.


Thanks again for replies.

 

[mostly_gas]

When trying to start, do you get any smoke at all, if so what color is it?

 

[JC-jetro]

Cj,

I'm not completely convinced that you fuel system is bled of air fully. You can take the nuts( two) completely lose and expose the end of the injector pipes before going to injectors. have someone crank and you observe flow or you can do it while seated and looking at the end. You must have small amount of pulsating fuel coming out without any bubbles. Air is compressible but fluid is not, even small amount of air in the line can compress back and forth without against the 2000+ psi that injector spring can cause. 2000 psi is not the stiffness of the spring but the pressure to squeeze the spring is about 2000 + psi. verify flow and report back with the result. also make sure to open up the screw next to a plate (plate with screws ) is open so by gravity air can be bled right up to pump cam mechanism.



JC,

 

[cjfling]

Mostly_gas,

I do get smoke and always do for about the first five minutes of running. It's white to a white/blue in color.

JC,

Next time I have someone there, I will pull the fuel line off the injector pump while cranking on it. The last time I bled the system, it took a while for fuel to reach fuel filter bowl bleed screws and then also the injector. When bleeding, my understanding is to start bleeding at the screws on the filter/bowl, then close those screws, and move on to the injector screw? Does that seem right? Before I start any of this, I'm going to dump the fuel in the bowl and double check the filter install. I hadn't done that previously.

Thanks to all.

 

[JC-jetro]

CJ,

You need to look at the tank outlet height in regards to filter intake and injector intake. On some tractors like my Kubota there is a small transfer pump before the injector.

In your 1700 system is gravity type all the way to the inlet of the pump. following is the process you need to go thru where you can also see visual feed back of what's going on.

1- Make sure tank has fuel above the tank outlet. Just imagine you changed the filter and it dry and you just put it in with the tank valve in closed position. when you open the valve you will see no flow as the air is trapped and can not escape the filter bowl.

2-There are two screws on the bulb as you open the first one partially you should quickly see the bowl start filling up and air escaping from the screw hole you just loosened. Continue doing so till bowl is full and only fuel is coming out. You need to close first screw there. Then open the second screw that removes the air on piping on bowl cap. As soon as only fuel comes out close the screw just the same. So far you have bled air all the way to outlet of the filter.

3-Now you need to bleed air from the rubber hose to the inlet of the injector. There is a large screw on the top right (about 3 o.clock), next to the plate with 3 screws. loosen the screw there and all the air is bled just to the inlet of injector pump.


so far all you have done is by gravity and nothing else. The last piece is to remove air out of the metal pipe to each individual injector. This has to be done by cranking the engine. as I said before air is compressible and fuel is not. You can crank all day and the air will just happily pulsate back and fore with no pumping.

4- loosen the nut and crank engine a few time till the fuel travel up to injector while expelling the air. Once you see solid fuel and no bubble then tighten the nut , preheat and try to start.


JC,

 

[cjfling]

JC,

OK. I'm going to dump the fuel in the bowl and start from scratch with your procedure above. I've never bled all the way to each individual injector.

Thx