Fluid to use? Hyd.

[YukonKing]

Hi guys,

Has anyone run straight ATF fluid in a 2007 JM254? Im in the Yukon we are
-20 celsius dipping into the 30's. Im really getting peeved at even AW32. My hydrolics are in slow motion at best. Will ATF wreck pumps or rams?

 

[Diamondpilot]

Not sure. I live in Norther Indiana and we do not get anywhere as cold as you although we dropped down to -8 last night. I run AW68 or something like that, its 20 weight. I have to let the tractor warm up for 15 minutes while working the 3 point, steering, and FEL.

Chris

 

[YukonKing]

I warm mine up in a tarp garage with a exaust boot on it. Even then its 1/2 hour before its good to go. I just though that ATF would be very fluid even in the extreme cold Im just worried about pump failure. If im doing lots of fel work clearing snow it stays warm but plowing long straaights the rams seize up.

 

[Bob Rooks]

I'm sure there are folks who say that ATF is no different than any other 10w oil except for the red dye. That's not true. There are at least half a dozen formulations of "ATF" to meet individual manufacturers specifications, and each have their own additive packages, most notable are friction modifiers which are not unlike what you would encounter in limited slip differential oil. In a nutshell, it's not a very good idea.
When I was working in Alaska (Chukchi Sea to be exact) we would use 5w non-detergent engine oil, and when it got to the point where that wouldn't work then we just shut 'er down.
Premature pump failures would be your least worry. And don't even think of diluting it with kerosene or diesel.

 

[DieselPower]

You might consider using a winter/low-temp hydraulic oil. ATF works but it's usually overkill for the application. ATF will work as a hydraulic oil and I even have some customers up north that use it. The main downside to the customer is the increased cost of ATF over hydraulic oils.

What does your equipment call for? Hydraulic oil or a UTF oil? If it's just a regular hydraulic oil you might try using a ISO 22 (SAE 5) hydraulic oil instead of the ISO 32 (SAE 10) you have been using.

The main difference between a "low temp" hydraulic oil and a regular hydraulic oil of the same viscosity is that the special "low temp" oil will have a much lower pour point. As a example the regular hydraulic oil I sell in ISO 32 has a pour point of 0 deg. while the low temp ISO 32 has a pour point of -40 deg.

 

[doxford jim]

Hi guys,

Has anyone run straight ATF fluid in a 2007 JM254? Im in the Yukon we are
-20 celsius dipping into the 30's. Im really getting peeved at even AW32. My hydrolics are in slow motion at best. Will ATF wreck pumps or rams?

Hi,

I am in the same boat as you with my Jinma tractor (554) with using AW32. I have to work my machine before it performs well. The steering oil I haven't changed yet and it deos get very stiff until it warms up.

Mostly I think the problem is the small dimension piping that we have on these tractors. I have an old MF-65 tractor with a front loader and I have no trouble with that. That machine has larger diameter hoses and the hydraulic fluid in it is UTF, which I believe, is thicker than the AW32. As Dieselpower says, using a real low temperature hydraulic oil might be your best and safest bet.

mariner

 

[greg_g]

Will ATF wreck pumps or rams?

I doubt it. I'd be more concerned about ATF eating Chinese seals, wipers, and gaskets.

//greg//

 

[DieselPower]

Nope, ATF won't eat seals, wipers or gaskets. It's just a highly additized hydraulic oil with a higher price tag to match.

 

[greg_g]

It's just a highly additized hydraulic oil with a higher price tag to match.

I understand that; Perhaps my response above should have read:
I'd be more concerned about the additives in ATF eating Chinese seals, wipers, and gaskets.

//greg//

 

[Wayne County Hose]

In the forklift industry, we use ATF in freezer applications in place of hyd oil and gear oil. I have seen freezers in ice cream plants down to -50. Forklifts had no issues related to the fluids in that environment. Thousands of hours with no pump or motor failures. You could use low temp hyd oil, but ATF is usually more available.

 

[Bob Rooks]

Some simplified hydraulic oil questions answered here:
Choosing the Right Hydraulic Fluid

He forgot to mention Thermal Equilibrium.

 

[Wayne County Hose]

Some simplified hydraulic oil questions answered here:
Choosing the Right Hydraulic Fluid

He forgot to mention Thermal Equilibrium.

Stay away from advice by him. He is the self proclaimed "king of internet hydraulics." There is an article he wrote in last months issue of that mag that is seriously flawed. It was about double acting cylinders and how if you removed the piston seals the cylinder still would not drift. On paper, he is correct, in the real world, he was dead wrong.

 

[Diamondpilot]

My neighbor runs ATF in his Bob-Cat. I also see guys run it in the snow plow pumps. They like it because it is easy to get your hands on in the middle of the night if they blow a line. It also show up great on snow if there is a leak.

Chris

 

[Bob Rooks]

If you do a "hydraulic oil" search here you will get the straight story, and you can pretty much believe what they have to say. At least I do.

D4174-89(1999) Standard Practice for Cleaning, Flushing, and Purification of Petroleum Fluid <FONT COLOR=RED><B> HYDRAULIC</B></FONT> Systems

 

[geobar]

I run Dexron in my 2004 Jinma 284, and find that it performs better then it did new with no drawbacks so far. Be careful though because atf and hydraulic fluid do not mix. You will need a complete flush to make it permanent on the atf. My 2004 hyd system was filled with motor oil from the factory and atf will mix with that so I did not have a flush situation. I flushed and switched my snow plow to atf because hydraulic fluid absorbs moisture from the air and I kept getting ice in the system at the start of every winter. IMO atf flows, lubricates, inhibits rust better and keeps the system cleaner.

 

[Red55]

Wow geobar didn't know that about hydraulic fluid absorbing water. My MTD 22ton log splitter specifies atf and was thinking of switching it over to hydraulic fluid- now I'm not thanks Ed

 

[RonMar]

Wow geobar didn't know that about hydraulic fluid absorbing water. My MTD 22ton log splitter specifies atf and was thinking of switching it over to hydraulic fluid- now I'm not thanks Ed

Yep, it will absorb and eventullay emulsify. I recall reading somewhere that it takes around 200-300 PPM of water to start to be visible. The water typically gets into the system thru the resovoir tank breather. You shut down your hot machine and as it cools, the air in the tank contracts and fresh air containing moisture is drawn into the resovoir. The moisture condenses on the interior walls and mixes with the fluid.

They make dessicant air breathers that absorb this moisture and help keep the tank dryer. I have made my own using a cheap clear inline fuel filter with one side filled with indicating dessicant. When it is blue it is dry, when it turns pink, it is saturated with moisture. I dump out the pink dessicant into a glass bowl and microwave it. This releases the moisture and returns the dessicant to it's dry indigo blue color. I put it back into the filter and re-install it on the breather vent. I have one on the tractor and one on the backhoe resovoir vents.

 

[Red55]

Thanks Ronmar- Too early for me to switch to synthetic hydraulic but is that any better with moisture being absorbed. I do remember about someone posting about using a gas filter to keep dirt out of the system. Did you post about your filter? Thanks Ed

 

[Bob Rooks]

.....because hydraulic fluid absorbs moisture from the air and I kept getting ice in the system at the start of every winter.

I think the American Petroleum Institute (API) would be interested in your findings. Why not submit a paper?

 

[Wayne County Hose]

?????????????? You guys worry too much. There are millions of pieces of equipment worldwide running hydraulic oil and have no moisture issues. If you're that worried, dump in a 99 cent can of isopropyl. If you do have moisture issues, you don't change your hyd oil enough anyway.