Firewood processor help

[J_J]

I have not seen or heard about a relief valve installed in the system yet.

If he can develop pressure, the cyl wil work.

Haven't seen any pressures yet.

A 5 HP electric motor could run the log splitter cyl independently.

I can't understand why a 5000 psi hyd gauge was left out of the system.

5000 PSI 2.5" LF LM GAUGE CF1P-350-A

The installation of the gauge could have answered most of the questions about what was happening.

Since you have 4 pumps, the gauge could plug into each pump to check pressure.

Install a male QD on each pump. Just plug in to check pressure, or leave it in place.

 

[ptsg]

The relief valve can be seen in the video @min 5, it is in the valve block. There are also 3 pressure gauge.

 

[J_J]

I missed that, will take another look.

Where is the relief valve?

He said he didn't know anything about a relief valve or setting.

If the pressure had been developed as high as 3000, he could have 42 tons of force.

So something is wrong.

The pump have the potential to generate volume, and the cyl's surely can develop the pressure.

I can see a big problem with all pumps running and developing max pressure.

What I am saying is that if just the one pump feeding that cyl, and the relief set right, it could split a car in half or rip the cyl off the frame.

 

[jonix]

well, J.J...the cylinder almost rip off the frame indeed.. Think the guilt is not totally in engineer, but in eucalyptus too..dry eucalyptus can generate lots of pressure i guess..

today we met with the engineer, and i was able to understand is idea..within a day or two, we will put almost 60 tons against the guilty one at 3700 PSI..and we'll see what will happen..

The system as both 13,5 GPM and 10,5 GPM pumps for splitter valve, witch has two relief valves, and they will be set at something like 2500 and 3500 PSI respectively. This splitter valve is "a proper valve to swap between pumpss", according with the relief settings..so, my 25 HP should hang up with this maximum setup. I do the math from surplus center, and i think it is correct: 25Hp can handle with 13,5 GPM at 2500 PSI, generating 39 ton with a extend time of 10 sec for a 17,5 cylinder stroke..if this is not enough (think eucalyptus may agree with this, and engineer too), then my 25Hp will push 55 ton on the 10,5 GPM pump at 3500 PSI..should split a bus in half..

Then, i think i can push my 5 GPM pump to do all the stuff (log feeding, clamping, etc), while my two bigger pumps are resting and pumping oil to the tank without pressure (well, as a matter of fact, only one should be resting because my 13,5 GPM pump will be retracting the cylinder with very low pressure) ..and then, when all the stuff were done, my smallest pump can rest to, while my two bigger pumps still resting , and i can push my 7,5 GPM pump to my F11-005 while all the pumps are resting, because i can't do anything else while cutting is going on..

who do you think is the "guilty one"? engineer or eucalyptus..?

I think they are both, but for the two of them i will need a bigger cylinder..and think more steel..

I think I also have a share on guilty because I should have studied a little bit of hydraulic before meeting with the engineer, in the early phase of the project..

 

[J_J]

Yes sir, it is best to do your homework, because if you give the engineer the wrong data, and he will use that to mess things up on your end.

With a good wedge design, you should be able to split anything, even sideways.

If you watch your hyd gauges, you can tell if the machine is working at max, or not working at all.

You never did say the max psi of the cyl.

Do you know how to check or set the relief pressure?

 

[jonix]

Do you think this is a good wedge design?

The max psi of the cylinder is unknown..it is shop made! think they know what they are doing..

There are two screws to set the relief pressure, in the valve..since my hydraulic gauge is for all the valve, and not for one pump at the time, i have to figure out how i´m going to check the pump pressures, individually..may i have to use one of those gauges that you have shown..

 

[jonix]

Do you think this is a good wedge design? View attachment 432242View attachment 432243View attachment 432244

The max psi of the cylinder is unknown..it is shop made! think they know what they are doing..

There are two screws to set the relief pressure, in the valve..since my hydraulic gauge is for all the valve, and not for one pump at the time, i have to figure out how iｴm going to check the pump pressures, individually..may i have to use one of those gauges that you have shown..

 

[J_J]

Your wedge design looks OK.

You definitely need a relief valve in the circuit going to the cyl.

Is your cyl return automatic or manual as in holding down button.

Install a male Quick Disconnect in each of the pump circuits that will match your test QD's

Connect the test gauge with no pressure in the system.

What was the purpose of the three gauges I saw in the video?

 

[jonix]

jonix,
here are some formula based on the metric system.

For reference:
The saw pump of 34 lpm @ 150 Bar requires 10 kW power at 85% efficient

Splitter pumps:
50 lpm @ 250 Bar requires 24.5 kW power at 85% efficient (I used 250 bar since a lot of gear pumps are rated to 250 Bar)
this does not take into consideration any other loads on the motor of which there will be.

Thanks!

is not easy to post it all in GPM, PSI, inches and HP..

 

[jonix]

So you are saying that with two independent pumps, one with high GPM and low pressure and other with low GPM and high pressure, with the proper valve to swap between pumps, canｴt do the same as a 2 stage pump? Because it is probably what jonix has in his processor.

The problem that jonix is experiencing must be the relief valves and unloading pressure not set right, it probably cause the system to produce excessive pressure when it shouldn't.

For what I can see, this processor is made to work automatic, that's why they use solenoid valves and not a log splitter valve.

you have seen it all!

thats right! the processor will work semi-automatic, since log deck is manual..and last lenght cut too..

 

[ptsg]

you have seen it all!

thats right! the processor will work semi-automatic, since log deck is manual..and last lenght cut too..

Yes, I saw the electric part. You just need to feed the beast

What is the company that you are working with for hydraulics? If I may know

 

[jonix]

Your wedge design looks OK.

You definitely need a relief valve in the circuit going to the cyl.

Is your cyl return automatic or manual as in holding down button.

Install a male Quick Disconnect in each of the pump circuits that will match your test QD's

Connect the test gauge with no pressure in the system.

What was the purpose of the three gauges I saw in the video?

i think i have the reliefs in all valve blocks..
the cylinder, in manual mode, will advance with push and hold button, it will stop automatic in the end of the stroke (even if you still push the button) by sensor detection, and it will stay stopped untill you push and hold the retract button..manual means manual

the purpose of the three gauges is simple: one for each valves block. One is for saw, one for all the stuff, and the other one is for splitter. This last one is messing around with me..one gauge for a valve block with two reliefs, that as two feeding pumps..how the **** i know the pressure of each pump?!?..

 

[jonix]

Yes, I saw the electric part. You just need to feed the beast

What is the company that you are working with for hydraulics? If I may know

think i have to buy a tractor to feed it!!

The company is TECLENA, they are in Porto, Aveiro e Leiria..

 

[ptsg]

think i have to buy a tractor to feed it!!

The company is TECLENA, they are in Porto, Aveiro e Leiria..

Oh yes, I know it. I have Hidromarinha close to me, but they want to much money for everything.. Never worked with Teclena, but I think I will take a look at that. Thanks for answer me!

 

[J_J]

What kind of sensor stops the log splitter valve, and why is it even there, as the relief will protect the pump.

What is the sensor pressure limit?

I would set up relays to stop the end of travel of the cyl rod and another relay to auto return.

On the two pumps with two relief, are they set the same? If the relief are set to about 2900 psi, the relief will redirect the fluid to tank when a log causes the pressure to reach 2900 psi or when the cyl travel is at the end of stroke.

Recommend you disconnect the sensor and watch the hyd gauge at end of stroke to see what pressure the relief is set. If the log splitter gauge sows about 2800 to 2900 psi, you should be able to split about anything.

Which ever relief is set lower will relieve the pumps pressure.

The reliefs should be set to about 50 to 100 psi below the pumps max rating.

I have heard of people building their own cyl. but what kind of specs were used, and was any testing done?. If not, you have no idea of the cyl working pressure or any safety margin you might need.

Seems like I remember that cyl were tested to 1.5 times operating pressure.

 

[ptsg]

The system seems designed to work automatic, that's why there is a sensor to send signal for retracting the cylinder when it touches the wedge.

 

[J_J]

This is what he said. { it will stay stopped until you push and hold the retract button..manual means manual }

So it is not automatic.

 

[jonix]

This is what he said. { it will stay stopped until you push and hold the retract button..manual means manual }

So it is not automatic.

this is in manual mode J.J...the machine was built to work semi-automatic..and it have sensors for that purpose..i don´t know what king of sensors they are, but they aren't pressure sensors..they are more like a "presence sensor" that send an electrical signal and it was seted up with a computer connected to the electrical automation..

well..the cylinder will be mounted today afternoon..and tomorrow it will be test day, if everything goes well ..

 

[J_J]

If the sensor is not a pressure sensor, what does the sensor do, other than alert you to the cyl position.

Do you not then press the return button to return the cyl, and if so, that is strictly manual.

Hope your test goes well.

 

[oldnslo]

jonix,
Good luck on your testing. I have not watched the video but in reading through the posts you should have two separate pressure setting for the splitter pumps to create the hi-lo system. The Lo pressure hi volume pump should be unloaded above a preset pressure. This would be done via a unloading or external piloted sequence valve and check valve. Once this preset pressure is reached the cylinder travel speed will be reduced to the low flow high pressure pump. This is the pump tha tshould have the relief set close to the systems rating or max motor HP which ever is less.

I believe you are describing a proximety sensor for cylinder stroke detection. These are immune to pressure spikes causing false reversals.

FYI: NFPA Industrial standards for cylinders is a 3 : 1 safety factor so a cylinder rated for 250 Bar should not explode with 750 Bar applied.