Firewood processor build thread

[kiotiken]

Looks great!! I've learned to expect and accept such setbacks when I'm working on projects even remotely as complicated as your processor. You'll get er whipped into shape. Still very much looking forward to seeing it in action!

Thanks. A video is on the way. I'll stay true to my word and post the video of the first start up even though it didn't go so well. I'll wait until I replace the leaking fitting and can run it a little longer. It's going to the -30 C range this week, so it may be a little cranky to start now that I've banished it to the back 40!

Not sure about the smaller cyl but I'm guessing with the splitter cyl its just air. 5" bore is a lot to bleed out. When I connected the 4" one on my dump wagon, I put a gallon and half in thru the port with a funnel before connecting the hose.

Yup, the 'pros' at PA certainly leave some to be desired. We now have a new hyd shop in the west end, Freco Fluid Power off Carp and Richardson. For a few parts, sure beats the drive to the other side of the city

Wow, didn't think there'd be that much fluid in there. I'll have to top up the hydraulic fluid once I've worked the air out of it then.

ANy closeup pics of your plumbing? I looked back a couple pages and didnt find one.

Here are a few from this morning.

I think I see that there is a needle valve restrictor in there? Its not choking something off to cause your weird performance issues? Is it installed in the right direction? Its not in a return line is it? Could be air too, but you got to get the leak fixed first. Air can cause jerky , erratic movements.

No, no needle valve restrictor, at least I don't think so :laughing:

What valve is the 3 spool? With that info we can determine what the proper fitting is. The PA website is pretty good at listing that for their valves.

MD30 3-Spool Directional Control Valve | Princess Auto

Do you have a pressure gauge installed?

No, I meant to pick one up last time I was there but plain forgot. Since I'm disconnecting the fitting anyway, I'm going to throw one in.

 

[kiotiken]

Took a drive to PA at lunch today and picked up a pressure gauge and all the fittings to make this work. I also went through the design and plumbing using the pictures I posted here with the "expert" and he didn't see any issues with my set up and couldn't think of what's causing my issue with the small cylinder or why the 5" cylinder wont retract. I'm going to chalk it up to air in the system, fix the leak, cross my fingers and try it again.
He did look it up and tell me there's 2.02 gallons of fluid in the 5" cylinder, FAR more than I would have thought. That's actually great because I have a 10 gallon reservoir, bought 10 gallons of hydraulic oil and want the tank to be 75-80% full. I'll add the rest before trying it again. It's minus nasty with the windchill here today so I'm not sure I'm up for playing with freezing cold fittings and ice cold leaky oil tonight.

 

[Scooby074]

Thanks. A video is on the way. I'll stay true to my word and post the video of the first start up even though it didn't go so well. I'll wait until I replace the leaking fitting and can run it a little longer. It's going to the -30 C range this week, so it may be a little cranky to start now that I've banished it to the back 40!



Wow, didn't think there'd be that much fluid in there. I'll have to top up the hydraulic fluid once I've worked the air out of it then.



Here are a few from this morning.
View attachment 405489

View attachment 405490

View attachment 405491



No, no needle valve restrictor, at least I don't think so :laughing:



MD30 3-Spool Directional Control Valve | Princess Auto



No, I meant to pick one up last time I was there but plain forgot. Since I'm disconnecting the fitting anyway, I'm going to throw one in.

Thanks.

The inlet for the 3spool looks like a normal NPT elbow, it requires a #12 (3/4) ORB ie: O-Ring Boss. Similar to whats there, but significantly different. Easy fix.

Ahh I see now that there is no restrictor. The T in your return lines looked like a restrictor in one of the pics.

Pressure gauges are essential.

I dont see anything in your plumbing that stands out, other than your return system. Not a really big fan of the hose clamps!. There should be minimal pressure there, but I still dont like it. There can be minor spikes of pressure on the return. Not really that important unless you start blowing hoses though.

Im not sure what model of Splitter valve you got from PA. The PA site is down right now. But I think it has a relief built in. When you get your gauge in, Id wind the relief on the splitter valve all the way in and use the one on the 3spool to set relief.

Try reversing the hoses on the valve for the splitter. See if that will make it retract.

Once a gauge is in there we can see more of whats going on.

 

[CDN Farm Boy]

Where would the ideal location be for the pressure gauge? On the individual circuit or on the main inlet which could presumably measure circuit pressure also by only operating one valve at a time?

 

[aczlan]

Where would the ideal location be for the pressure gauge? On the individual circuit or on the main inlet which could presumably measure circuit pressure also by only operating one valve at a time?

I would put a T on the main inlet and install the gauge there. That way you always know what your pressure is no matter what circuit is in use.

Aaron Z

 

[Scooby074]

Where would the ideal location be for the pressure gauge? On the individual circuit or on the main inlet which could presumably measure circuit pressure also by only operating one valve at a time?

Anywheres before the 3 spool but after the pump.

If individual circuit readings are required a test gauge can be installed on the individual circuit if required.

 

[kiotiken]

That's how I'm setting it up, a T right before the 3 spool. Last night was all about getting the rink started since we're finally into a cold snap. Not sure when the gauge will be installed, I'm not eager to retest the processor until it warms up a little anyway, it's really cold here. Pump on the tractor started whining when I started it up last night, only does that when it's really cold. I warm it up for a good 20 minutes at a fast idle and the PTO running before I even think about using it. I'd have the same issue with the processor.

 

[woodchipper]

Ken,
Are you using the power beyond port on your main valve to power the single spool splitter valve? if yes, then I am wondering why you have a return hose off the main...? Pressure gauge before the main valve is the place, but make sure it is protected so as it does'nt get a direct hit from any wood that could attain it.
That deep freeze we are having in the region puts many of our to do before spring projects on stand by:hissyfit:!!
Stay warm all!

 

[kiotiken]

Ken,
Are you using the power beyond port on your main valve to power the single spool splitter valve? if yes, then I am wondering why you have a return hose off the main...? Pressure gauge before the main valve is the place, but make sure it is protected so as it does'nt get a direct hit from any wood that could attain it.
That deep freeze we are having in the region puts many of our to do before spring projects on stand by:hissyfit:!!
Stay warm all!

Yes, the splitter valve is powered off the power beyond port of the 3 spool valve. The return hose from that valve is T'd into the return hose of the splitter valve. I'm a novice with hydraulics and this was how I was told it should be set up but it makes sense to me to do it that way. The low pressure from the 3 spool valve needs to go somewhere, as does the low pressure from the splitter valve. The power beyond port is always supplying high pressure. Should it be set up differently?

Ya, the cold snap has finally broken here. I'll get out and install the pressure guage and give it another try. I'll post some video of the results by the end of the weekend :thumbsup:

 

[kiotiken]

Well, I'm back... The logs were delivered today and they couldn't be better for testing this thing out. Most of them seem to be around 12" in diameter and straight as an arrow without a single crook.

So I'm good to go, try it out and make a video right? Not really, the guy I bought the wood from wanted to check out the processor since it was sitting there. He was blunt and honest. It's not going to work, the steel is to light and it's not going to withstand the forces. He also looked at the hydraulics and pointed out the tank and the pump are both 1" outlet/inlet, but the fittings and hose I have is only 3/4". He says not to use it as is, I'll be starving the pump for oil. I'll post something in the hydraulic section and ask the hydraulic surplus center on Monday, anybody here have any thoughts?
I also figured out another problem. The wedge is going to deflect the wood downward and it's going to jam with the back of the processor frame. I'm trying to figure out what to do.
I'm past the point of no return and I now have a pile of wood that I don't feel like doing with a splitter so I have to figure this thing out.

 

[kiotiken]

The leak should be fixed now, unfortunately, it's WAY too cold to try it right now. I also want to hear back about the supply line before going any further.

I thought I'd post a few pics of the fix and of the wood that was just delivered. It's a real mix this year where last year it was almost 100% sugar maple.

New fittings and pressure valve to stop the leak


The suction hose from tank to pump

 

[farmer2009]

How did they deliver the wood? Dump truck or knuckle boom.

 

[kiotiken]

How did they deliver the wood? Dump truck or knuckle boom.

Knuckle boom. He laid a few down as runners then stacked the rest on top. Been buying wood from him since 2006, I've always been happy.

 

[CDN Farm Boy]

Man, you aren't having any luck with this build are you?

I can't remember how your wedge is mounted. Is there a solid back brace across the bottom? If not can you cut out the bottom of the wedge itself so the 4 way would work? Won't help the 6 way any though.

Look at the bright side of things, I know for a fact we have plenty of frost (16" at my house) that the truck wouldn't have left any ruts that you had last year. And similarly to my dump wagon build, there is a whole bunch of us that have also learned from your misfortunes :-D

 

[Scooby074]

Well, I'm back... The logs were delivered today and they couldn't be better for testing this thing out. Most of them seem to be around 12" in diameter and straight as an arrow without a single crook.

So I'm good to go, try it out and make a video right? Not really, the guy I bought the wood from wanted to check out the processor since it was sitting there. He was blunt and honest. It's not going to work, the steel is to light and it's not going to withstand the forces. He also looked at the hydraulics and pointed out the tank and the pump are both 1" outlet/inlet, but the fittings and hose I have is only 3/4". He says not to use it as is, I'll be starving the pump for oil. I'll post something in the hydraulic section and ask the hydraulic surplus center on Monday, anybody here have any thoughts?
I also figured out another problem. The wedge is going to deflect the wood downward and it's going to jam with the back of the processor frame. I'm trying to figure out what to do.
I'm past the point of no return and I now have a pile of wood that I don't feel like doing with a splitter so I have to figure this thing out.

Youre using a 28gpm 2 stage Haldex (Concentric) pump?

I probably would not run it with a 3/4 hose particularly in this cold.. Are you sure the fitting on the pump inlet is 1" and not 1 1/4?

Checking the Parker hose flow chart for suction lines 1 1/4 should be whats spec'd. If its 1" on the pump, it seems like they are cheating a bit. 3/4 only will flow 10 ish for a suction line, less when the oil is cold.

Id probably plumb it with 1.25 from the tank then bush it down to 1" at the pump. And you really should have a shutoff first thing after the tank for future service and repairs, and the ability to shut the tank off when the processor is in storage.

I do like how your pump is set lower than the tank which keeps the pump primed. Pipe tape on hydraulics scares me and while up for debate, is a bad idea IMHO.

Id just go and try the wedge as is. If it jams, then rework. No since tearing it apart now, it may work fine.

Nice looking pile of wood.

 

[ajmaxham]

I used LOCTITE 545 (non-fouling for Hydraulic Fittings) on all of the IPT joints when I built my log splitter. It worked very well -- no leaks.

I would also use a longer suction line and not use the 90 deg. fitting at the pump.

 

[kiotiken]

Man, you aren't having any luck with this build are you?

I can't remember how your wedge is mounted. Is there a solid back brace across the bottom? If not can you cut out the bottom of the wedge itself so the 4 way would work? Won't help the 6 way any though.

Look at the bright side of things, I know for a fact we have plenty of frost (16" at my house) that the truck wouldn't have left any ruts that you had last year. And similarly to my dump wagon build, there is a whole bunch of us that have also learned from your misfortunes :-D

I keep reading your dump wagon thread, it just got a little over my head! I'm so happy to be contributing to everybody elses learning... wait, not happy so much :laughing:

One thought I had was to cut the bottom of the spitter head frame off. Like you say, that would solve the 4 way wedge problem but not the 6 way. I was then thinking of using those 1/2" X 6 pieces of plate that are cut off to build some type of hinged flap to stop the rounds from being driven down into the back of the processor frame. I'm just having a hard time seeing exactly how it would work out. I'm now thinking of having Custom Welding chop up the wedge, reverse some of the cross pieces and having them sharpen them so it doesn't come to a point in the centre but from on of the edges. Should allow one piece to push straight through.

I'm still really not sure.

 

[kiotiken]

Youre using a 28gpm 2 stage Haldex (Concentric) pump?

I probably would not run it with a 3/4 hose particularly in this cold.. Are you sure the fitting on the pump inlet is 1" and not 1 1/4?

Checking the Parker hose flow chart for suction lines 1 1/4 should be whats spec'd. If its 1" on the pump, it seems like they are cheating a bit. 3/4 only will flow 10 ish for a suction line, less when the oil is cold.

Id probably plumb it with 1.25 from the tank then bush it down to 1" at the pump. And you really should have a shutoff first thing after the tank for future service and repairs, and the ability to shut the tank off when the processor is in storage.

I do like how your pump is set lower than the tank which keeps the pump primed. Pipe tape on hydraulics scares me and while up for debate, is a bad idea IMHO.

Id just go and try the wedge as is. If it jams, then rework. No since tearing it apart now, it may work fine.

Nice looking pile of wood.

Yes, it's the 28 GPM. I think you're right, it's actually 1.25" You can see the fittings reduce into another fitting to reduce again from the pump. I'm done with PA, I'm going to the local hydraulic shop, it would have been a lot cheaper doing that in the first place. A shut off is a good idea. I did't like pipe tape either, I thought I was only using it on the low pressure return side, but there are a bunch of fittings put together that way now.

The wedge will jam, there's no doubt in my mind. I'll try it and see how bad it really is, that will help me deciding on what to do.

 

[kiotiken]

I used LOCTITE 545 (non-fouling for Hydraulic Fittings) on all of the IPT joints when I built my log splitter. It worked very well -- no leaks.

I would also use a longer suction line and not use the 90 deg. fitting at the pump.

View attachment 407151

I was using the 90 deg to make sure the hose is tucked out of harms way. I'll talk it over at my local hydraulic shop, at this point, if it helps get this thing working, I'm in.

 

[CDN Farm Boy]

I keep reading your dump wagon thread, it just got a little over my head! I'm so happy to be contributing to everybody elses learning... wait, not happy so much :laughing:

One thought I had was to cut the bottom of the spitter head frame off. Like you say, that would solve the 4 way wedge problem but not the 6 way. I was then thinking of using those 1/2" X 6 pieces of plate that are cut off to build some type of hinged flap to stop the rounds from being driven down into the back of the processor frame. I'm just having a hard time seeing exactly how it would work out. I'm now thinking of having Custom Welding chop up the wedge, reverse some of the cross pieces and having them sharpen them so it doesn't come to a point in the centre but from on of the edges. Should allow one piece to push straight through.

I'm still really not sure.

While sharpening on only one side would solve the bottom piece of the 4 way, if the top side jams, the round still jams. I'd do as Scooby says and try it before cutting it up and modifying. Cut an 8' chunk off one of the smaller logs and try it in the 2 way first and then the 6 way since it's further from the top than the 4 way is from the bottom. If Dave is right and it (Gasp!) folds in half, the you don't have to worry about modifying the splitter.

When you do get to firing it up and actually trying to run a log thru, if you need someone to hold the camera or second set of eyes/ears for creeks and groans, I'd be happy to come over.

PS, the technical stuff is sorted out for now for my dump wagon. Welding and fabwork to resume shortly......