Firewood processor build thread

[mikehaugen]

What did you thin it with?

 

[kiotiken]

What did you thin it with?

lacquer thinner

 

[farmer2009]

Would you care to tell us just how much you have in the build? If you already have my apologies. And about how much more it will take to finish the build.

 

[kiotiken]

Would you care to tell us just how much you have in the build? If you already have my apologies. And about how much more it will take to finish the build.

I'm planning to do my best to add it up at the end and I'll post a better number then. I really should keep better track but I'd say I'm between $4-$5K now. The only money I have left to spend is 10 gallons of hydraulic fluid, so about $100 and a bunch of nuts and bolts, so maybe another $20 there.

 

[kiotiken]

HEEEEELLLLLLLPPPPPPPP!!!!!!!!!!! The paint is still tacky except for the area that I used the paint without thinning it, in that area, it's perfect. Obviously, they meant what they said on the can and my paint guy was dead wrong. So, do you think it will eventually harden? Should I just put a second (un-thinned obviously) coat over top of it, even if it stays tacky? I don't have a sand blaster, the weather's getting rough so there's no way I'm stripping off the paint I've already applied. I'm leaving it tonight to see if there's any difference this time tomorrow, but it's been 24 hours and I'm supposed to be able to re-coat by now.

 

[murphy1244]

Can you heat it up Ken?

 

[Scooby074]

HEEEEELLLLLLLPPPPPPPP!!!!!!!!!!! The paint is still tacky except for the area that I used the paint without thinning it, in that area, it's perfect. Obviously, they meant what they said on the can and my paint guy was dead wrong. So, do you think it will eventually harden? Should I just put a second (un-thinned obviously) coat over top of it, even if it stays tacky? I don't have a sand blaster, the weather's getting rough so there's no way I'm stripping off the paint I've already applied. I'm leaving it tonight to see if there's any difference this time tomorrow, but it's been 24 hours and I'm supposed to be able to re-coat by now.

Those high tech paints can be really touchy about thinning, not only what is used, but thinning in general.

To spray high solids, industral paints akes industrial gear. I know its a bit late now, but thats why I usually recommend that homeowners either brush paint like that or if they insist on spraying, use something like Tremclad. Thats ignoring the chemical hazards of Urethanes as well.

4336 is a Urethane modded alkyd. You found an incompatibility with your Lacquer thinner.

You can try cranking up a heater near it to maybe "bake" it, but in all honesty I think your screwed.

Id run it as is. It doesnt take long for paint to get bashed up on a processor. Otherwise, youre looking at stripping it (chemical stripper, inside) and redoing. Not the end of the world in its disassembled state, but likely more than you want to do.

If you paint over it, the paint will likely be soft underneath the new top coat and will allegator or lift over time.

One possible cause of your problem I just thought of... Does this place sell a lot of industrial paint? Ive seen it where paints are old stock and wont harden. Its likely not the case because the non-thinned paint worked, but it just came to me. I went looking for the datasheet on this paint because I was not familiar with it, and could not find a listing for Devguard 4336 on the main Devoe site. I eventually found a datasheet through another search however. Makes me wonder if it is a current product and you didnt get sold old stock.

One thing I learned painting, for the most part, the instructions are there for a reason and need to be followed to a T. Higher performance paints especially. Where Tremclad is idiot proof, these paints arent.

Again, Id probably run it as is, and save the repaint for maintenance in a couple years.

 

[kiotiken]

Those high tech paints can be really touchy about thinning, not only what is used, but thinning in general.

To spray high solids, industral paints akes industrial gear. I know its a bit late now, but thats why I usually recommend that homeowners either brush paint like that or if they insist on spraying, use something like Tremclad. Thats ignoring the chemical hazards of Urethanes as well.

4336 is a Urethane modded alkyd. You found an incompatibility with your Lacquer thinner.

You can try cranking up a heater near it to maybe "bake" it, but in all honesty I think your screwed.

Id run it as is. It doesnt take long for paint to get bashed up on a processor. Otherwise, youre looking at stripping it (chemical stripper, inside) and redoing. Not the end of the world in its disassembled state, but likely more than you want to do.

If you paint over it, the paint will likely be soft underneath the new top coat and will allegator or lift over time.

One possible cause of your problem I just thought of... Does this place sell a lot of industrial paint? Ive seen it where paints are old stock and wont harden. Its likely not the case because the non-thinned paint worked, but it just came to me. I went looking for the datasheet on this paint because I was not familiar with it, and could not find a listing for Devguard 4336 on the main Devoe site. I eventually found a datasheet through another search however. Makes me wonder if it is a current product and you didnt get sold old stock.

One thing I learned painting, for the most part, the instructions are there for a reason and need to be followed to a T. Higher performance paints especially. Where Tremclad is idiot proof, these paints arent.

Again, Id probably run it as is, and save the repaint for maintenance in a couple years.

Well, that sucks! Thanks for such a detailed, depressing response, I agree with your views, "I'm screwed". I have the shop heater at the end of the processor blowing hot air over it. Some parts seem tackier than others, but where it's tacky, it's obviously very soft and can be scratched down to the metal.

I don't know how old the paint is. I did just call the person who sold it to me and he's trying to get in touch with the local rep. He told me over and over that there would be no issue thinning it with a little lacquer thinner to get it to spray properly. Pretty obvious he was wrong.

Out of curiosity, what type of industrial gear are you talking about? Should I have rented an airless sprayer? Unfortunately, I needed to spray to get into all the nooks and crannies of the processor, you'd never get a brush in some of them.

So, I'll see what the paint guy has to say, but unless he's going to volunteer to come and strip it for me, I doubt it's going to matter much. I think I'll leave it in places it wont really be touched like the bottom side of the trough but try and take it off using a flap disk in areas it's going to see weather and be knocked about. Like you say, it's a lot easier now then when it's re-assembled. I'll just have to see if it simply gums up a flap disk, I don't have a sandblaster.

Thanks for the info. Is this your profession?

 

[CDN Farm Boy]

That's been a rough few days.....

Since I hate painting on a good day, it kinda makes me appreciate my "screw it, let it rust" method of finishing. I'd guess a flap wheel will gum up by the sounds of things. Perhaps better luck with a wire wheel in the grinder or drill?

 

[kiotiken]

That's been a rough few days.....

Since I hate painting on a good day, it kinda makes me appreciate my "screw it, let it rust" method of finishing. I'd guess a flap wheel will gum up by the sounds of things. Perhaps better luck with a wire wheel in the grinder or drill?

Ya, this projects been going down hill for a while now and to top it off, I've got a wicked cold right now and not much drive to get out and finish it. I'll be trying a wire wheel as well I just don't think anything is going to remove the paint except sandblasting or chemicals as Scooby suggests, neither being an option for me.

 

[kiotiken]

Just got off the phone with the paint store. The product rep says there shouldn't be an issue with a small amount of lacquer thinner and that he'd like to give it a little more time to dry. Claims the darker colours can take longer to dry. They think it's going to dry and be OK.

I'd love to believe it, but the fact there's such a big difference between the area I painted un-thinned vs the rest of it that was thinned, I have serious doubts about it.

 

[mikehaugen]

Maybe try some of those big halogen worklights, they put out some serious heat.

 

[farmer2009]

I'm planning to do my best to add it up at the end and I'll post a better number then. I really should keep better track but I'd say I'm between $4-$5K now. The only money I have left to spend is 10 gallons of hydraulic fluid, so about $100 and a bunch of nuts and bolts, so maybe another $20 there.

Thanks yea if you don't care as I'm looking at adding some wood heaters and a processor.

 

[farmer2009]

Hate hearing about your paint problems. But sounds like a little hardener is needed. But I have only messed with implement paint and we always added about a cap of hardener to a can of paint. Sometimes still took a couple of days to dry. Been about 15 years since I painted though so they may have changed by now.

 

[CDN Farm Boy]

Just got off the phone with the paint store. The product rep says there shouldn't be an issue with a small amount of lacquer thinner and that he'd like to give it a little more time to dry. Claims the darker colours can take longer to dry. They think it's going to dry and be OK.

I'd love to believe it, but the fact there's such a big difference between the area I painted un-thinned vs the rest of it that was thinned, I have serious doubts about it.

As much as it sucks, I think you are right. Paint that doesn't dry in the listed time (or close to it) will never dry. If another 24 hrs doesn't do it, nothing will, even that is a 'fingers crossed, hoping to win the lottery' 24 hr wait. If at that time it still hasn't cured (it's just soft, not sticky right?) I'd assemble it and run your load of logs thru to see how it goes. If it needs any tweaking do that and then wait for summer to strip it down and repaint.

There's a guy out in Almonte that does sandblasting and equipment painting. He used to be on March Rd by Golden Line but he move to a different location a couple yrs ago. Might be worth a call if it comes to that. I've got his number if you want it.

 

[kiotiken]

As much as it sucks, I think you are right. Paint that doesn't dry in the listed time (or close to it) will never dry. If another 24 hrs doesn't do it, nothing will, even that is a 'fingers crossed, hoping to win the lottery' 24 hr wait. If at that time it still hasn't cured (it's just soft, not sticky right?) I'd assemble it and run your load of logs thru to see how it goes. If it needs any tweaking do that and then wait for summer to strip it down and repaint.

There's a guy out in Almonte that does sandblasting and equipment painting. He used to be on March Rd by Golden Line but he move to a different location a couple yrs ago. Might be worth a call if it comes to that. I've got his number if you want it.

After about 6 hours with the 220 v shop heater on it, it's mostly dried but some of it is still slightly tacky. No doubt it's still soft in spots if not everywhere. You're absolutely right, I'm leaving it, assembling it and trying it before doing anything else. As we talked about when you were here, I'm being lazy by not getting it running and testing it before tearing it down to paint, so this will sort of give me that chance. Please PM me his number whenever you get the chance, that way I'll have it for future reference. I think I'd just go that route if this paint doesn't stick, the sting of spending money on it will be gone and it would be done right. I hate painting, I'm obviously not very good at it.

 

[Renze]

What was happening was.....and this is my own judgment on this, was that after you weld for awhile especially if you are welding long runs the whole assembly heats up and especially where the light weight aluminum angled piece at the end is. Where the aluminum and the copper pieces connect at the tip it gets so hot that it actually caused the steel liner that the wire runs through to expand enough that it will twist or unwind causing the hole in the liner to become smaller which pinches the wire and well you know what happens next. You can replace all the pieces at the end of the torch and weld for awhile but if you are welding long and hard you will end up upgrading to a heavier torch if you ever want to get anything done. I might say that I came to this conclusion on my own because no one over at Miller or the miller forum will admit it and still want to blame it on the operator.

I had a similar problem with my Tico 350, with a Binzel 360 torch. Water cooled torch was 300 euro more, so i decided that it would be time to grab a beer before my torch would get too hot to the touch. Yet i burned the pits blue, so I replaced the gas nozzle so it will accept tips with M8 instead of M6 thread, and from the pro welder at work i got the advice to use 1.2mm tips on 1mm wire. The oversized pits work very well, they last much longer and i dont get as many sticky wires.

 

[Scooby074]

Well, that sucks! Thanks for such a detailed, depressing response, I agree with your views, "I'm screwed". I have the shop heater at the end of the processor blowing hot air over it. Some parts seem tackier than others, but where it's tacky, it's obviously very soft and can be scratched down to the metal.

I don't know how old the paint is. I did just call the person who sold it to me and he's trying to get in touch with the local rep. He told me over and over that there would be no issue thinning it with a little lacquer thinner to get it to spray properly. Pretty obvious he was wrong.

Out of curiosity, what type of industrial gear are you talking about? Should I have rented an airless sprayer? Unfortunately, I needed to spray to get into all the nooks and crannies of the processor, you'd never get a brush in some of them.

So, I'll see what the paint guy has to say, but unless he's going to volunteer to come and strip it for me, I doubt it's going to matter much. I think I'll leave it in places it wont really be touched like the bottom side of the trough but try and take it off using a flap disk in areas it's going to see weather and be knocked about. Like you say, it's a lot easier now then when it's re-assembled. I'll just have to see if it simply gums up a flap disk, I don't have a sandblaster.

Thanks for the info. Is this your profession?

For gear, a proper airless is good (best?). You need one with enough oomph to pump heavier paints though. Another option is a pressure assisted paint gun (pressure pot). That will help lift the paint to the gun. Proper tips are important. And above all, you need enough air volume.

Try a wire wheel on a grinder on the soft stuff. It will likely roll up and flick off. Flap disks will likely plug. You might even be able to use solvent and wipe the parts clean. Data sheet calls for Naptha or mineral spirits. Being soft like this, it wont take much stripper if you go that way.

Its not my trade per se. Ive worked in industrial maintenance and in fab (welding) shops over my career. Lots of big stuff gets painted with similar paints and Ive had the misfortune of being designated to do some of this painting (lol). I also do a lot of autobody in my spare time. Im a bugger for punishment lol.

Edit: good to hear that heat is helping. I still say there is something else going on other than dark colours (first time I heard that). Data sheet says dry to touch in 1 hr. That is typical. 24h(?) drytime is way over spec. Even if it gets "not tacky" I doubt it will actually be cured correctly and have the strength of the unthinned paint. However it will likely be just fine on a firewood processor.

 

[muddstopper]

OK, I am not much of a paint guy, heck my last splitter didnt even get a coat of paint, so I'm staying out of the paint discussion.

I do want to touch on the comments about the Parker F11-12 motors. High rpms for fast chain speeds. High speeds come with high price tags. Saw chain speed is not measured in rpms, it dont work that way. It is measured in feet per minute of chain speed. F11 type motors use 23gpm to turn 10,000rpms and little sprockets to get chain speeds. They also require about 5000psi and a 79hp engine to make it all work. It aint only the F11 motor you have to pay for, bigger pump, bigger engine, heavier duty valves and hoses, it all adds up. Finding a good used F11 for cheap isnt a gift, its almost a curse. Yes you can run less oil and less pressure and use a smaller engine, but then you give up all the benefits of having the f11 motor in the first place. Most processors use a gear type motor and a larger sprocket to get chain speeds . Most of the processors i have ever watched run, used gear motors with around a 1cuin displacment and are supplied with a over the recommended oil flow to get the speed needed to saw wood. Usually around 20gpm at about 2500psi to get 3000rpms and need about 34hp to get the full benefit of the motor. Lots of smaller processors dont have 34hp motors. Most, well practically every one I ever watched, had extremely slow cutting hydraulic chainsaws. They cut, but without much power, and very easy to stall the chainsaw out. Switching to a axial piston motor will give better speed than a gear motor and provide more hp than a gear motor with less psi, but also require more flow. A 1.3cuin axial piston motor at 25gpm and 1800psi will give you about 4400rpms and only takes a 31hp motor to pull it. Couple that motor to a 13tooth .404 sprocket and you are matching chain speed with 3120 Husquvarnia chainsaw with 3 times the cutting hp and 5 times the torque. If you want to figure out your chains speed, Take the chain pitch and multiply by 2. Multiply the above number by the number of teeth of the saw sprocket.
Multiply that number by the saw R.P.M. The final answer will be the chain speed in inches per minute, just divide by 12 to convert to feet per minute.

I am building my hydraulic saw based on the specs of the Husquvarnia 3120 chainsaw, specs are ,8.4hp, 9000rpms, and a chain speed of 66fts or 3960fpm. I dont have my math in front of me, but I should be around 3times the hp, 5times the torque and cutting speed within about 40fpm of the Husky. I wont know how well it works until I get the processor built, but I think it will work well.

 

[mikehaugen]

Do you think the chain will hold up to the increased power/torque? Are you using some kind of harvester chain and is it stronger?