Fireplace advice appreciated

[EddieWalker]

When I built my house, I was on a very tight budget. Now that we've lived in it a few years, we've decided to put a little more money into it. One thing that failed miserably for us was trying to stain the concrete floors ourselves. The Quikrete product that we used didn't hold up very well, so now we're going to put in a laminate wood flooring. Before I do that, I want to put in a wood burning fireplace.

I'm not in a rush to do this, but would love to have it done before next winter. There are several things that I want it to accomplish. I want a fireplace insert so it actually heats the house. Another advantage to the insert is that I can run double walled piping for the chimney and not have to build a brick chimney. From what I've read online, it looks like this is the safest way to build a chimney and has become code for all of Canada.

Another aspect of this is that our big screen TV is ten years old and we realize it's just a matter of time until we'll have to buy a new one. The new LCD's are getting to the affordable range, so incoroparting a recessed mounting location above the fireplace with a shelf for electronics built in under the TV will also be part of the plan.

To give us the look that we desire, I'm going to frame it out in wood and Hardi Backerboard, then cover in cultured stone. The mantel will be cut from an oak log from our place. I will also frame in the insert for the TV in oak and stain to match the mantel.

Here are my questions.

1. Who makes a good quality wood burning fireplace insert for a reasonable price? My home is 1,000 square feet, so it doesn't have to be a very large one. Quite is very important important to us, as is apperance, glass doors and price.

2. Does anybody have any experience with wood storage cubby holes built into the wall or side of the fireplace? I dated a girl who's sister had this on their fireplace, but I've never seen it on any others. They had a outside door on the back of their fireplace that they could load the firewood into. Her husband would fill it up in the day and it would last them all night. I like the idea of this, but don't know if it's practical or not?

3. Is there a book or website that you know of with information or code on what's required to do this? I don't live in an area with any building codes, and where they do have codes, there's nothing on fireplaces with inserts that I can find in my books. The insert will handle the issue of keeping the house from burning down, so fireplace brick isn't a concern, and I don't plan on using it. The bigger concern is how I will handle the exhuast and sparks. My roof is metal and the house has Hardi siding on it, so it's very unlikely that it will burn, but never impossible.

4. My thought for the insert is to pour a cement pad/footing onto the back of my wall and tie it into my foundation to support the weight of the insert and help with the added weight of the rock on the wall. I think a 6 inch pad should be plenty for this. The area is part of my covered leanto area and is protected from the weather. I will build a wood frame up to the metal roof overhead and then run the metal pipe up through my metal roof.

5. We're wanting to create a lodge style look and would appreciate any pictures or links to pictures that you may have. We're undecided on the type of rock we want to use right now. We think we want the rock to go all the way to the peak of our ceiling, but nothing is for sure right now.

This picture shows where we will build the fireplace. The bigscreen is where the fireplace insert will go and the shelves will go into my burn pile.

Thank you,
Eddie & Steph

 

[Egon]

Eddie, we have a Regency Fireplace insert in our house. As it fits in an existing fireplace with chimney All that was required was to run a continuous stainless steel liner down to the stove. This was to meet the chimney diameter requirements of the insert. It is an air tight type.

In our previous house we had two free standing Regency stoves that used Selkirk chimneys. These are a stainless steel double walled insulated chimney. Not cheap.

Your best bet may to start searching on Google for wood stoves and chimneys. When you get to individual company sites they may have clearance requirements on line.

Remember there are two types of fireplace inserts. One is air tight and the other is not.

Prices can also vary a lot between brands.

I'd try and explain more but information and pictures on the sites do much better than I can.

Note: A free standing stove will produce much more heat than a insert.

 

[mjarrels]

I agree with Egon... A GOOD quality free standing wood stove would product more heat and be much cheaper to install... and have a nice fire viewing window... I had a Country wood stove in Washington State and it was GREAT.

mark

 

[Wayne County Hose]

Eddie, I love your #1 goal for 2008! I have been researching wood boilers. This has brought me to many wood burner websites. You might want to look at the Harman products. They have a very good reputation. Around here, triple wall insulated stainless is the code for non-block. We put this up at our hunting club. You can install it right up thru the house and come thru the roof. It is cool touch, and comparably priced to a block chimney. If anything, I'd go triple wall, just for safety.

I guess there is no way Steph will let you contact the ex to check out the fireplace. I wouldn't, she does shoot better than you.

 

[Gomez]

Eddie,

We have a Lopi Freedom insert. The insert is just a freestanding stove with the legs removed and sheet metal to cover the open area between the stove and the fireplace opening.

If you have the room, I agree with the other posters, that a stove will be more efficient than an insert in terms of heating. I order to heat more that just the room where the stove is, a blower is usually needed on the insert.

Looking at your picture, I'm not sure you have the room for a free-standing stove.

I also installed a 6" dia flexible SS tube in the chimney. It was fairly easy job (a lot easier job with two people). It also makes for easy cleaning.

As for websites try Hearth.com - Information on Gas Fireplaces, Wood Stoves, Gas Logs, Pellet Stoves, Fireplaces, Chimneys and Hearth Products.

Good Luck!

 

[rox]

Eddie,
When you start a project I love how you write detailed posts you provide a lot of information so it is easier to understand your projects and respond. Strickly from a decorating perspective I am thinking that the ston all the way up to the ceiling is going to overpower your small space. As long as you are busint out a wall and pouring a pad why don't you ask Steph if she would like another closet? We wimin folk never have enough closets...
I also agree with everyone else that a free standing wood stove would be more beneficial than a fireplace, and there are very pretty ones out there. The only thing I can see about the wood stoves is you ahve to cut your firewood smaller than what you can use in a fireplace, others correct me if I am wrong here.

 

[texasjohn]

Eddie, yes, a freestanding fireplace/wood stove will require less wood and give out MUCH more heat.. sorry, I don't have any exact figures, just my opinion.

OTH when we build our fireplace, which is a traditional style with fans on each side to circulate air from behind and an air inlet in front to bring in cold air to exhaust instead of warmed room air, I had it installed BELOW the level of the floor and the steps going down into it are good to sit on.

I made a mistake and put the steps a little too close to the fire... so if there is much fire at all , it is too hot to sit on the steps. However, standing in front of the fire does warm the legs ... whereas if fireplace is at floor level or above, the lower legs stay cold while the upper backside toasts.

My prime purpose in putting the fire pit DOWN was to resolve the daily problem of making sure the fire was out before going to bed... else a log could break and roll out on the floor and cause all sorts of problems. With a lowered fire pit, logs that break stay on concrete and where they are safe(er)

 

[Blackbird_BX]

Eddie,

As others have said, a free standing wood stove will be the most efficient and effective in heating the space and they are easier to install than a fireplace if you have the space for one.

There are quite a number of high quality manufacturers of wood stoves, fireplaces and inserts. I'm looking to replace the fireplace that came with our house with an airtight unit and have found that selection is rather limited compared to free standing stoves and inserts for brick fireplaces. Some web research will give you a good idea what's available. I'd stay away from catalytic units.

A visit to a local dealer should help you determining code issues. Most manufacturers installation requirements exceed or meet local codes and are covered in detail in their installation instructions.

As for a wood cubby, consider the loss of insulation and need for an airtight door on the outside of the wall. I've considered building a box with airtight doors on the inside and outside to provide convenient wood storage next to the fireplace without creating a pneumonia hole.

 

[EddieWalker]

Thank you for the quick replies and suggestions. As most of you know, Texas winters are not gonna qualify as bad in anybodies books. 70 degrees outside today. We only have two months when it's cold out and of that time, we only get down to freezing temps a few times.

The primary reason for the fireplace is for looks. The mantel and place for the flat screen TV are more important than actual heating. I figured that while I'm planning this, I might as well make it functional, thus my reasoning for the insert. Currently we heat the house with two plug in, ceramic heaters. We save $100 a month on electricity using those instead of the central heating system. So maximum heat isn't an issue for us.

We thought about a freestanding stove, but just don't want one. We want the rock fireplace, lodge look for the room.

I haven't heard about triple wall chimeny's, but will look into them. Thanks.

The brands are all new to me, so it's much appreciated to hear of those that you like. I haven't heard of an "airtight" insert. I'll do some searches on those. Thanks.

Rox,

You might be right about to much rock. I'm not sure yet if that's the way to go or not. We have a 53 inch big screen and don't want to go any smaller. We'll probably buy a 52 inch LCD flat screen and I'm not sure how that will look with rock around it. I have all the space that I need to cut it into the wall and recess it in there without too much effort. Sometimes less is more.

Thank you,
Eddie & Steph

 

[hunterridgefarm]

Eddie,

The free standing will produce more heat but it will take up a lot of your space in that room.

My dad had a fireplace insert the heated a 1700 sq ft home with no problem. It was a Buck Stove.

Buck Stove Corporation - Wood & Gas Stoves

The fireplace insert was used for 20 years with no problem. You could open the doors in frnt and lock a metal screen on it to view the fire. We only removed it, when due to health and age, it became hard for them to load the wood. We installed gas logs for them.

The gas logs I have in my new house is Buck Stove and the wood furnace in my basement would have been Buck Stove but I received a good deal at Tractor Supply for the brand I purchased.

Buck Stove has been around a long time and I have actually been to their plant several times and it is a excellent brand. I am sure there are other great inserts out there, this is the only one I personnaly have seen and used.

We were thinking about doing the recessed shelf above the fireplace in our new house but decided our next TV would be a flat screen and would just mount it above the mantel.

Good luck with your decision. If I get time this week I will try to post some links and pictures of some designs we looked at. But with the house almost completed...time is in short supply .

David

 

[mjarrels]

We have a wood burning fireplace in the living room... used about 5 times in 8 years... Harman coal stove in the basement... running at 400 degrees now... 900 square foot basement is HOT now... Upstaires very warm... Third flloor is nice for sleeping... Nothing burns hotter than coal... Wind chill tonight should be 15 below... nice and warm with coal. BUT coal is not cheap anymore... About 200.00 a ton and I can burn a half ton a month if it is really cold.

mark

 

[hockeyhead]

$50 a month for coal that sounds cheap to me. I have a pair of Napolean 1401 fireplace inserts in 2 of our 3 fireplaces. They have been good to us, both are running at 400 plus degrees right now. It is -6 outside as I right this, they say we had 35mph winds today, and it was windy with a high of 7 degrees. now that the sun is down the winds have dies out. The natural gas furnace hasn't kicked on since I fired up the second insert Fri night. Now tomorrow everybody goes back to work and school so the gas furnace will be back at it until I get home and fire up the insert in the kitchen to help out. All that said a free standing stove is much better the a fireplace insert for generating heat.

 

[Egon]

Eddy, sounds like you looking for an "Ambiance" fireplace rather than a heating one.

Take a serious look at the non airtight inserts as they will lend themselves to a more traditional fireplace look yet do provide some heat.

 

[EddieWalker]

Terms are killing me. I figured out that a catylatic insert has higher efficency, but requires replacing the eliments every six years or sooner. It depends on usage, wood and how careful you are. For the same money I can buy a non catalytic insert and not have to worry about all that, but have less efficency. I'm going non catyletic.

I'm still searching on the air tight versus the non airtight models. I don't have a clue which is which or the pros and cons of each. I'm still looking and have found several stores that I didn't know about who sell inserts in my area. The swimming pool places suprised me by carrying inserts.

Egon,

Ambiance. Good word. That's just what we're looking for!!!!

Eddie

 

[Egon]

Regency Wood Fireplace Products


This site will show you a fireplace insert. [ note there are many other brands] These inserts lend themselves to replicating the old wood burning fireplace except they have glass doors that may or may not be used. Heating is a secondary function for these units. They do come with fans to aid in heating. They are usually larger in opening than an air tight.

The air tight have glass doors but they must be kept closed. They are a heating unit and firing rate depends on the amount of air the damper allows to enter.

If you back back tract on the site you will find this type of insert. They will be called wood inserts

The terminology will differentiate between the two = Wood fireplace or the air tight which is called a wood insert.

 

[billbill1]

Eddie, the brands that I am familiar with are Lopi, Earth Stove, and Buck. All make inserts and they do a good job of heating. Do a search of the brands and you will find pictures and sizes. The TV above the stove will cause problems IMHO due to the heat rising and being very hot above the stove. I also had a friend that had a Heat-a-la-tor brand that he heated a very large home with and he liked it as well. Lopi and Buck are sold locally to me and are attractive inserts that can have glass doors, the glass doors on the air-tight stoves usually get dark very quickly but you can view the fire. Do a search on these brands and see what you think.

 

[jejeosborne]

I went through this process a couple of years ago and did extensive research on the web. We too decided on using cultured stone and actually designed our floorplan around the fireplace and wood storage. I will post some pictures of our setup to maybe give you some ideas.

You mentioned an insert. Inserts are typically a metal fireboxes that one would put into a masonry fireplace to achieve more heat output. I think what you are wanting is what is typically called a zero clearance unit which is a stand alone unit that can be framed into a wall in close proximity to combustibles. Our unit is a zero clearance unit made by Napoleon.
NZ6000 Wood Burning Fireplace This unit heats our entire house (3600 sq. feet) in southern Indiana with no problem. I put the fan unit in the basement to move the air down and also to minimize the noise. In fact, you cannot hear the fan run unless you turn it up to its highest setting. This unit puts out so much heat that it turns our ceiling fans 15 feet away.

We also consider a unit made by Fireplace Xtrordinair but like the appearance of the Napoleon.
Product Guide - Wood Fireplaces - Fireplace Xtrordinair

As far as flue pipe, I would recommend a solid fill pipe. This type minimizes heat loss and keeps flue temps up. Air cooled pipe cools the pipe which promotes creosote to condense inside the pipe. Your goal is maintaining high temps. Good info here on design woodheat home

You mentioned airtight units. I would highly recommend an air tight unit. Our unit has two 6" combustion air pipes. All the combustion air comes from outside the house. We lose no heat going up our chimney from the house. Another advantage is that in the summer time you cannot get a smelly downdraft into your house. Our last house we built a large masonry fireplace that was beautiful but very inefficient and smelled in the summer.

These pictures are somewhat dated and taken right as we were moving in. Since I have installed hard maple on the ceilings and finished touching up around the storage door.

You can view the back side of the fireplace here http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/projects/114597-bring-more-firewood-easy-way.html

 

[montanaman]

Yes, exactly what he said! An insert is designed to be used with an existing fireplace. It is not cheap to get a high efficiency zero-clearance fireplace, but the only stone work needed will be the facia used to decorate it with. We have a zero-clearance in our house and I just discovered that you can buy some VERY nice high efficiency ones. Ours is very large and beautiful to watch, but you had better be prepared to go get an arm load of wood during every commercial!!

Some of the new high efficiency ones also have additional ports that you can duct the heated air to other areas of the house.

If time and money was no problem, I would replace our existing zero-clearance fireplace with one of these in a second and duct some of the heat into the basement!

Ken

 

[jejeosborne]

Expensive is very true. I have our reciepts in a spreadsheet and just looked them up.

The nz6000 fireplace was $5700. This was just for the unit with the fan. Don't get me wrong, there is a lot of steel in this thing. It weighs over 900 lbs and is mostly 1/4 boiler plate steel.

Then you add in another $1400 for just the 8" solid fill flue pipe 30 feet up.

I framed and installed the fireplace myself so that was "free". I did have someone apply the cultured stone to my framed concrete board. Stone and labor $15000. This included the inside and outside with the addition of the pillars on the front porch and 12" around the foundation so prorated for the fireplace would be around $13000.

Total for fireplace with me doing the installation..... $21,100. I could have bought a lot of electricity for many years but would miss out on all the firewoood exercise.

We burn only black locust so it does last for a long time. The larger fireplaces do burn much more wood though. Ours will burn all night with a good bed of coals in the morning...........but.........it holds a lot of wood. It will take a 36" log. My splitter will only accept 24" logs so I try to stay around 20". I stuff about 6 pieces in at night and shut down the air.

Eddie, non-catylatic would be fine for you with the minimal run times in Texas. I wish my unit had a catylatic element because I burn for 4 months non-stop. You get a complete burn with much less smoke. Chimney stays cleaner and you have much fewer emissions to the environment. I was amazed to read about how much pollution a single fireplace emits. Fortunately, ours is better than some of the outside boilers that I see smoltering around. I am no environmentalist but am amazed at the pollution incomplete wood combustion creates. Good information again at Environment

 

[gsganzer]

Eddie,
The fireplace in the photo is a "Majestic" insert. It has a fan and "fresh air "capabilities, also gas lighter capabilities. Ours wasn't hooked up for fresh air, but yours will need to be if you want glass doors. Our fireplace is real stone, but they make a lightweight veneer in all sorts of styles (do a search for texas stone veneer)and it won't require any kind of footing or additional concrete work. The veneer you can do yourself. It goes onto a metal lath over plywood and you use a grout bag to fill the joints. There are also "dry stack" veneers that require no grout.

Our fireplace heats a 600 sq. ft room with vaulted ceilings fairly well. The fan noise is low to moderate.