Fireplace advice appreciated

[texasjohn]

Eddie, as regards your wood shed, what if you made it do double duty.

How about a combination wood shed and tornado shelter? Fill it up with wood after tornado season is over, burn it in the winter, empty in spring for storm shelter.

If you make it strong enough, 4 sides, bottom and top, then it will be available when you need it, hopefully, never!

 

[Blackbird_BX]

Eddie:I handled the "looks like a beached submarine" issue by aiming the tank directly at the house, so it looks smaller, and putting it in the woods about 200' away from the house.

Our 500 gallon propane tank is buried, so only the top of the "conning tower" is visible. It is a fairly common practice here, even for leased tanks.

 

[EddieWalker]

What type of line, and how big, do you run from the propane tank to the house?

I think I'll have time this week to stop in at the propane dealer this week. I'm clueless on this, so I'm just going to go in and ask for advice and what's available.

One day when I open the RV Park, I plan on selling propane. I have an area cleared and leveled with a road to it for RV's to drive up to. My initial thought is to get a small tank for just the house, then upgrade it to one in the thousands of gallons range when I open the park. If I plan on it, then I can run the lines that I need now, or have it as part of my plan for the park.

Thanks,
Eddie

Here's a picture of a fireplace that we realy, REALLY LIKE!!!!

 

[CurlyDave]

You must live in a high-rent district.

When I researched propane tanks, I thought I wanted a buried one, but none of the suppliers around here had any experience with them.

I live with a bunch of cheapskate rednecks...

 

[CurlyDave]

What type of line, and how big, do you run from the propane tank to the house?

I ran a 1-1/2" electrical conduit from the house to the pad for the propane tank. The propane company came out and ran plastic tubing through it and then set the tank.

As I recall, this was some overkill, since they only needed the conduit under the driveway, and under any concrete in the path of the line. They could have put the rest of the plastic line in an open trench.

The conduit was cheap insurance against something going wrong and having to replace the line a few years down the road.

The line needed to be a minimum of 18" deep.

Check around for prices. A lot of companies will give you your first fill of a new tank at a rate which is competitive with what the local gas stations charge for refilling tanks brought to them, but will then charge about $1/gallon more for subsequent fill-ups. I found one which delivers for the same price as it fills carry-in tanks.

 

[westbrooklawn]

Eddie -

When you check on propane, compare the cost of buying a tank vs. leasing it. In our area you can get much better prices on propane if you own your own tank (even from the same company that leases to you!). I know that sounds crazy, but around here the payback on the purchase is about 2-3 years via the lower price on propane coupled with avoiding the annual lease cost.

In my case I was leasing a 100 gal. tank at a trailer I own at the lake. My lease was $65/yr., and I was paying $1.95/gal. (this was about 6 years ago). I wasn't too happy with the company I was dealing with, so I called another one to come fill my tank... their price was $1.75/gal, but, the kicker... "we can't fill your tank if you don't own it". I went back to my original company and found out I could buy the tank from them for $260, and guess what... If I bought the tank from them, not only would I eliminate my annual lease cost, but then they could also offer me their "customer owned" tank rate of $1.75!!! It seems like if you own your tank, and any company can fill it, you suddenly put yourself in a position of being able to have all propane companies compete for your business!! I told several friends about this, and those that were leasing all ended up buying their tanks also. Things may have changed since then, but it is worth checking out.

 

[EddieWalker]

Awesome advice!!! I'll be sure to ask about buying the tank and rates for propane comared to leasing the tank. Thank you.

Eddie

 

[Blackbird_BX]

Hmmm, I need to go and check on what the deal is with the propane company. We just picked up what the previous owner had set up. My memory is that the only time money is involved concerning the tank is that if we change companies, we have to buy the tank or return it. Not sure who digs it up. I imagine that I could dig it up with the backhoe on the BX24, but don't think I'd want to (vision of tractor lying next to a large crater with the reminants of an exploded tank at the bottom).

 

[rox]

Eddie & also REALLY like that fireplace. I think it would look really nice in the sise home you have. I like how the stone does not go all the way to the ceiling but it still has height. It is enough to make a statement but now overbearing. I have seen stonework goe all the way up and lked it but the size of the room has to be big enough to handle it. I also like on the one you have picked out the marble (or is it granit?) that is the same green color marble we had in our previous home. that smooth ste marble/granit gives it a bit of class. I know you like the 'lodge" rustic style and i think the fireplace conveys that but I think the marble gives it jsut a touch of class.. those are not very big slabs of marble/granit (it looks like marble to me) I wonder if you start ow if you can't get a deal on some cut offs from the countertop people.www.craigslist might be a source for you on that. Again i REALLY like the design you and Steph have picked out.

 

[EddieWalker]

Rox,

Thanks, that one really cought our eye and is by far our favorite so far. We're still in the dreaming stage of this, so it could be awhile until we actually get moving on it. I've got a list of things I want to get done this year and the fireplace is one of the most expensive, and least needed on our priorities. I still haven't made it to the propane company yet.

Eddie

 

[mikim]

Eddie - I'm on the free standing stove side of the house - with your brick/rock wall behind. also -- I wouldn't put a TV above a heat source ..unless you really want to replace it every year. I've been looking because we want a wood stove in the house we are hoping to build. I like this one - has the storage below, glass face, and you can cook on it. kinda pricey though at $1500.

 

[EddieWalker]

Mike,

If I could figure out a way to incorporate the fee standing fireplace with a rock backdrop and add a place for a flat screen, it might be an option. I just keep hitting a wall on ideas on how to make that type of setup work with what we want it to look like.

We'd only actually use the fireplace on weekends a few times a month for two months. It's only cold here in January and February.

Steph suggested that we just build the rock fireplace and mantel and not bother with a real functional fireplace, but I can't quite grasp that concept either. If I'm going to build it, then I'm going to do it all out.

I spent 15 hours in an attic yesterday and I'm on my way back up there today. I don't know when I'll get to the propane dealer, but it's still somethign that I want to look into.

Thanks,
Eddie

 

[txdon]

Mike,

If I could figure out a way to incorporate the fee standing fireplace with a rock backdrop and add a place for a flat screen, it might be an option.
Thanks,
Eddie

It's March!!!! The wind howling, 35 degrees outside, (40 degrees warmer inside) and using no propane or electricity. Keeping it simple (7 ft. of wall space).

 

[CurlyDave]

We'd only actually use the fireplace on weekends a few times a month for two months. It's only cold here in January and February.

Eddie:

Propane is definitely the right fuel for that kind of use. Essentially, the annual cost of propane is going to be so low that even if you got 100 years worth of free wood it would not be worth the extra trouble wood causes.

 

[Sigarms]

We'd only actually use the fireplace on weekends a few times a month for two months. It's only cold here in January and February.

Eddie:

Propane is definitely the right fuel for that kind of use. Essentially, the annual cost of propane is going to be so low that even if you got 100 years worth of free wood it would not be worth the extra trouble wood causes.

Agreed, however, there is something about sitting around a wood burning fireplace, and not only seeing it, but listening to it. Guess it's all personal opinion. I'll be the first to admit that an open wood burning fireplace is a total wast of money if you're trying to use it as a heat source.

However, if heat is your primary use for the fireplace, depending on the application, a ultra high efficient gas furnace will actually save you more money on the fuel use (assuming you have existing duct which will save on your overall cost), and both appliances (LP furnace /LP fireplace) cost about the same. This is where wood can be cheaper to use as a supplemental heat source than a LP fireplace (insert type for both applications), assuming you have access to free wood and you don't overcharge yourself by the hour to get the wood

Plus the fact that getting wood from your own land builds character

 

[Egon]

Ambiance is the word Eddie used. That includes the crackle, spark, pop, smell and the heat felt from burning wood.

It cannot be duplicated.

 

[NuBota]

Eddie,

You've been given a ton of good advice so I'm am only gonna stress one thing - concentrate on the "ambiance" as others have mentioned - but consider heat output as well. With your square footage and mild winter temps - any high efficiency unit might cook you guys. Picture 20-30 degrees outside, stove fired up and you're in shorts and tank top, with a couple windows open, cause your sweating watching football in your recliner. Oh - and get the humidifier going cause it's gonna be as dry as the desert.

Don't get me wrong - wood heat is great - still amazed how the old man heated the entire 2800 SQ FT split level home with a free standing stove in the family room. A Vermont Casting unit he put in in the 70s (and now still looks like it did new, BTW) - very slick mixture of vents and damper - could control the burn rate and heat output. But when it was real cold and stove rolling, family room was too warm, even though ceiling fans distributed the heat comfortably through the rest of the house.

Had a cheaper type stove in my first house (1800 SQ feet), but didn't have all the fancy vent controls - burned full bore all the time - even in the teens, at night , with 2 feet of snow falling, had to open windows and vacate the family room. I hardly used it because unless you were in the remote chilly bedroom, you were sweating

I'm not expert - but I believe it is best to burn wood "hot" so as not to allow creosote buildup, etc. So if you can control the burn rate, and keep it slow to maintain a reasonable temp, you may be cleaning the chimney more and dealing with smoke smell in the house

Wood stoves nowadays might be totally different and/or maybe I did things all wrong - but if not, just another reason to consider gas since you should have greater control over the output. The design you guys picked is great - would stink if you end up never getting the ambiance or heating benefit because it's to uncomfortable to be around it....

 

[Sigarms]

I've got to admit Eddie, after re reading your first post and what you're looking for (and where you're located), I have to agree with NuBota.

 

[EddieWalker]

Thank you guys. All the advice is much appreciated and we're considering every option. The free heat from firewood isn't actually free, so the propane thought is one that we like too. Of course, the freestanding stove isn't totally out of the question if we can find a way to do it that we both like the way it will look.

I'll through a new one out there that Steph brought up. With only two months of heating, and even then, it's mostly for af few hours in the evening when we do heat, why not make it a fake fireplace?

I'm against that just on principle, but don't know if it's such a bad idea. We're wanting a certain look for the room more then anything. Most homes never burn a fire in their fireplace anyway, so I'm ok with not having a fire. We have burn piles and an outdoor fire ring for real fires if we want one anyway. What scares me, is that I'm starting to lean towards making a fake one just for the looks and a place to mount a flat screen TV.

I've been in homes with inserts that get too hot to be confortable. That's something I'd forgotten about. Thanks.

Ambiance and year round use is almost totally about what it looks like. The actual fire and heat output is secondary, but something I'd like for it to do. (Maybe)

Eddie

 

[NuBota]

Here's what you do - get the fireplace built, mount your flat screen, then get a smaller TV for the burn pit and run the video of the flames.....



-Eric