Fighting 'Solar Farm' Installation

[bnold]

Burning fossil fuels = not clean
Nuclear = not clean
Hydro = not clean
Solar = not clean
Wind = not clean
Tidal = not clean
Wood/biomass = not clean
Geothermal = not clean

*Add the word ‘clean’ in front of any of the above categories = not clean

Perhaps we need a new metric

Is there a rating system that could possibly compare all the elements of just how ‘not clean’ all of these producers could be?

 

[Fuddyduddy1952]

Well, we've come a long way with clean technology. Take coal for example: "Coal cleaning by 'washing' has been standard practice in developed countries for some time. It reduces emissions of ash and sulfur dioxide when the coal is burned. Electrostatic precipitators and fabric filters can remove 99% of the fly ash from the flue gases – these technologies are in widespread use."
My cousin has 25 foundries and people call about smoke coming out of his stacks and he has to explain it's steam not smoke.
I'm certainly no expert but planting trees and plants that turn CO2 to O seems to make a lot of sense. Gas and diesel vehicles today are the cleanest they've ever been.

 

[Hay Dude]

Burning fossil fuels = not clean
Nuclear = not clean
Hydro = not clean
Solar = not clean
Wind = not clean
Tidal = not clean
Wood/biomass = not clean
Geothermal = not clean

*Add the word ‘clean’ in front of any of the above categories = not clean

Perhaps we need a new metric

Is there a rating system that could possibly compare all the elements of just how ‘not clean’ all of these producers could be?

That would be nice, but that list would be “skewed” by the researcher, since all science is now political science.

 

[Hay Dude]

Well, we've come a long way with clean technology. Take coal for example: "Coal cleaning by 'washing' has been standard practice in developed countries for some time. It reduces emissions of ash and sulfur dioxide when the coal is burned. Electrostatic precipitators and fabric filters can remove 99% of the fly ash from the flue gases – these technologies are in widespread use."
My cousin has 25 foundries and people call about smoke coming out of his stacks and he has to explain it's steam not smoke.
I'm certainly no expert but planting trees and plants that turn CO2 to O seems to make a lot of sense. Gas and diesel vehicles today are the cleanest they've ever been.

I agree with everything you say, but those who oppose fossil fuels are on a “religious crusade”. there’s no stopping them.

 

[orezok]

A deflection on your part for sure, but I think it’s my right as an American citizen to inquire how much G_______t “assistance” is being given to solar and wind power?

It you want to talk subsidies, how about the Department of Agriculture data show that between 1985 and 2021, a total of 19,654 farmers received payments every year. The average recipient collected $942,458 over the 37-year period, for a total of $18.5 billion.

 

[riptides]

What do you do in a dope state? Just work harder to pay more taxes so the dope heads can be paid to stay home? Pretty soon, I'll just stay home too.

Have some cheetos. Crunchy are best.

 

[riptides]

It you want to talk subsidies, how about the Department of Agriculture data show that between 1985 and 2021, a total of 19,654 farmers received payments every year. The average recipient collected $942,458 over the 37-year period, for a total of $18.5 billion.

Especially those claiming crop losses.

 

[Grumpycat]

$40k for 40 array solar panel mounted on ground.

The parts for that is only $20k. The installer has marked up labor and "system design" by $15k because with the ignorance of the market they can.

 

[Grumpycat]

If solar panels were built like roofing panels and served both functions for residential homes, it wouldn't be obnoxious to me. But then there are those who hate metal roofing and think everything has to have asphalt shingles.

Tesla makes exactly what you describe. Costs about double that of generic PV panels so they don't do very many.

Solar Roof | Tesla

Solar Roof transforms your existing roof and brings it to life with beautiful solar tiles that can power your home for decades with the energy you produce.

www.tesla.com

 

[Grumpycat]

Gosh grump...how'd you get to be so smart?
I went back to the county and said what the heck...200+ft. towers with flashing FAA red lights on top are much better than more short towers and antennas on EXISTING electric poles.
Thanks a lot for your wisdom!

Would take several hundred mini-cells on telephone poles to equal one 200' tower.

How is it you like many hundred telephone poles and do not like one cell towers?

 

[Hay Dude]

It you want to talk subsidies, how about the Department of Agriculture data show that between 1985 and 2021, a total of 19,654 farmers received payments every year. The average recipient collected $942,458 over the 37-year period, for a total of $18.5 billion.

That’s a tiny fraction of what just the last budget passed put into “green” energy subsidies. We are and will be putting 100’s of billions into green energy subsidies. All the while making it impossible to use fossil fuels.

Is that the way to go? Is it fair to make one guys way of making energy cost more, while feeding the other guy taxpayer money to make his way of making energy cheaper?

Is that “fair”? Is it free market?

If you’re bringing up the “farmer subsidy” thing to twist a knife in ME personally because I am a farmer, it won’t work.
Outside of no PA sales tax on farm equipment, I have received NO subsidies.

 

[bnold]

That would be nice, but that list would be “skewed” by the researcher, since all science is now political science.

But we can agree that none of them are clean, non-impactful, producers correct?

What are the categories that would have to be considered for ‘overall impact?’

Human impacts
Mining impacts
Drilling impacts
Seismic impacts
Air quality impacts
Waterway impacts
Animal impacts
Atmospheric impacts
Local impacts
City impacts
Rural impacts
International impacts
Economic impacts
‘Relationship’ impacts

All of the producing means I listed fit in every category. Nothing has zero impact. Each would ‘score’ differently in every category. How would you weight each category and it’s impact?

I’m all for ‘clean coal’ over coal burning from 50yrs ago.

I’m all for nukes over just about any fossil fuel

I don’t have much issue with solar, works well for me, but not for many.

Don’t particularly like wind, the technology or the aesthetic.

Hydro seems pretty clean, but what about that river ecosystem it wiped out? (I love the water, so I’m all about the lake, very pro hydro for this reason! also, living in Texas I’m glad to have water in the tap, without damned reservoirs, that isn’t going to happen)

These are all personal opinions. I could score and weight, but it would fit my opinion.

Researchers will be influenced the same.
Politicians would also be influenced to support a narrative.

I’ve never seen an unbiased study that compared ALL of the impacts for each.

Some lean on water quality, some on CO2, some on other emissions (air, water, waste) some on birth defects, some on life expectancy, some on ozone, some on deforestation, some on marine life, some on labor. Of course most ‘studies’ are internet memes or media headlines.

Everyone’s argument on here is based upon limited knowledge or experience on a particular subject (or headline), but like me, ultimately is just an opinion of matters not founded on 100% fact.

In short, I find it interesting how folks can be so certain of their viewpoint with a guaranteed shortened view of reality.

 

[Citydude]

Why is it for you to decide what I do with my land?

Because I'm the government and I'm here to help.

 

[bnold]

Well, we've come a long way with clean technology. Take coal for example: "Coal cleaning by 'washing' has been standard practice in developed countries for some time. It reduces emissions of ash and sulfur dioxide when the coal is burned. Electrostatic precipitators and fabric filters can remove 99% of the fly ash from the flue gases – these technologies are in widespread use."
My cousin has 25 foundries and people call about smoke coming out of his stacks and he has to explain it's steam not smoke.
I'm certainly no expert but planting trees and plants that turn CO2 to O seems to make a lot of sense. Gas and diesel vehicles today are the cleanest they've ever been.

Sure thing, tons better than 50 years ago. Would you consider it clean and not impactful now?

Economically, that technology shut a lot of plants down. Close to me a lignite plant survived by adding many round of pollution controls as the EPA tightened its grip. Finally having to mix in Wyoming coal to burn ‘cleaner’, then nearly 100% Wyoming coal, then the economics just didn’t work anymore. Too expensive to burn ‘clean coal’ there any longer. Imploded a decade ago, strip mines are still in reclamation. Was that impactful?

 

[bnold]

It you want to talk subsidies, how about the Department of Agriculture data show that between 1985 and 2021, a total of 19,654 farmers received payments every year. The average recipient collected $942,458 over the 37-year period, for a total of $18.5 billion.

And that doesn’t even touch the market value vs production value argument for areas with property tax. Those calculations are terribly outdated in Tx.

 

[bnold]

The parts for that is only $20k. The installer has marked up labor and "system design" by $15k because with the ignorance of the market they can.

I paid $2.00/W ($1.44/W with tax credit) installed for my system in 2021. Quality panels and inverter (Fronius)

I’ve seen some other quotes that were absolutely outrageous when compared.

 

[bnold]

Tesla makes exactly what you describe. Costs about double that of generic PV panels so they don't do very many.

Solar Roof | Tesla

Solar Roof transforms your existing roof and brings it to life with beautiful solar tiles that can power your home for decades with the energy you produce.

www.tesla.com

Seems to only come close to penciling out with ‘needing’ a roof replacement. Pretty neat product though.

 

[Jstpssng]

And that doesn’t even touch the market value vs production value argument for areas with property tax. Those calculations are terribly outdated in Tx.

I believe that doing away with subsidies gradually would make people realize the true cost of their necessities. Perhaps they would be more inclined to shell out as much for what it takes for them to survive, vs the luxuries we enjoy.

I also tilt windmills occasionally, because it seems like the right thing to do.

 

[ROUSTABOUT]

Have some cheetos. Crunchy are best.

Crunchy are best. We can agree on that one.

 

[Fuddyduddy1952]

I agree with everything you say, but those who oppose fossil fuels are on a “religious crusade”. there’s no stopping them.

Very true my friend...