Fighting 'Solar Farm' Installation

[TN8Man]

Actually they do, but there are only a couple. The utility uses excess electrical power to pump water up to a mountain reservoir. Then when power is needed that water is used to drive turbines connected to generators.

All you need is a tall mountain with a reservoir on top.

I was talking a energy storage system that can store enough energy to power the grid of a mid to large city for an extended period of time, say a month to account for days of no sun or wind.

 

[Grumpycat]

I was talking a energy storage system that can store enough energy to power the grid of a mid to large city for an extended period of time, say a month to account for days of no sun or wind.

So was I.

 

[LouNY]

Name one. Cite your source.

National Grid, net metering grid ties systems may not have battery backup.

also as;
Grid connected solar systems do not require batteries to operate because the excess energy produced is in effect stored with the utility company in the form of NET metering. What many homeowners fail to realize when they purchase a standard grid tied system is when the grid goes down, so does the power being produced by the solar panels. Why? The IEEE-1547 standard requires that utility interactive inverters cease to export power (Means your meter spinning backwards) if the voltage measured at the Point of Common Coupling (PCC) (That mean your homes electric service meter) exceeds +10% or -12% of nominal. If that were not the case, the result would be an unintentional island of power generation that would energize a portion of the utility power grid that the local utility has de-energized. The importance of grid connected home solar systems is clearly recognized, but as home systems continue to make inroads into America’s utility grid, national guidelines were needed to stipulate how homes and businesses could connect to to the grid. To this end, the Institute of Electrical and Electronic Engineers (IEEE) worked with the United States Department of Energy (DOE) to develop the IEEE 1547 standard, which provided in 2003 a set of requirements in America for the interconnection of home solar systems into the utility power grid. When the grid goes down, most homeowners with an existing solar system quickly become frustrated because the potential power that is readily available nearby is useless

When I found this issue I quit considering any kind of grid tied system.
However with more modern research there are some systems available now that can use storage batteries in conjunction with dual metering, not the nice net metering that runs the meter backwards so excess power is paid at your actual cost including distribution, but just the few cents per kwh that you are charged for the "electricity" cost.

 

[TN8Man]

So was I.

Do you have the manufacturer name?

 

[bigtiller]

urban sprawl...
In the last 25 years, 200,000 acres of cropland in Iowa has been lost to homes and businesses built farther and farther from city centers.

Now, we are loosing 175 acres an hour to it.

 

[Grumpycat]

National Grid, net metering grid ties systems may not have battery backup.

No no no. Grid tied systems may absolutely have battery backup. You pasted a bunch of words below that you have no comprehension of what it says.

also as;
Grid connected solar systems do not require batteries to operate because the excess energy produced is in effect stored with the utility company in the form of NET metering. What many homeowners fail to realize when they purchase a standard grid tied system is when the grid goes down, so does the power being produced by the solar panels. Why? The IEEE-1547 standard requires that utility interactive inverters cease to export power (Means your meter spinning backwards) if the voltage measured at the Point of Common Coupling (PCC) (That mean your homes electric service meter) exceeds +10% or -12% of nominal. If that were not the case, the result would be an unintentional island of power generation that would energize a portion of the utility power grid that the local utility has de-energized. The importance of grid connected home solar systems is clearly recognized, but as home systems continue to make inroads into America’s utility grid, national guidelines were needed to stipulate how homes and businesses could connect to to the grid. To this end, the Institute of Electrical and Electronic Engineers (IEEE) worked with the United States Department of Energy (DOE) to develop the IEEE 1547 standard, which provided in 2003 a set of requirements in America for the interconnection of home solar systems into the utility power grid. When the grid goes down, most homeowners with an existing solar system quickly become frustrated because the potential power that is readily available nearby is useless

When I found this issue I quit considering any kind of grid tied system.
However with more modern research there are some systems available now that can use storage batteries in conjunction with dual metering, not the nice net metering that runs the meter backwards so excess power is paid at your actual cost including distribution, but just the few cents per kwh that you are charged for the "electricity" cost.

I do not believe you understood anything above.

Simple grid tie inverters require a 60 Hz pilot signal to match their output. This is a safety feature to halt production when the grid fails, nominally so as not to shock a lineman repairing downed lines who expects the lines to not be powered. That has absolutely nothing to do with battery backup.

Battery backup is no different than generator backup. Both require a disconnect system so as not to backfeed the power grid when power is out.

If interested study how Solar City installs systems, especially those with Tesla Powerwalls, which are commonly used to load shift power consumption. Many install Powerwalls without solar to charge at night when power is cheap so as to have backup and to have power during the day when the prices are high.

Solar City starts with a Tesla Energy Gateway between your electric meter and everything else in your home. This Gateway is capable of taking your home completely off-grid when it detects a grid outage.

The really sneaky thing Tesla Powerwalls do is integrate battery, charger, and inverter in one package. Sneaky because the Powerwalls will source the 60 Hz pilot signal to keep inexpensive Grid Tie PV inverters in operation. All the while the Gateway has taken your home offline.

Things get tricky when the power grid comes back online. The Gateway and Powerwalls somehow figure out how to get back in sync with the grid before the Gateway reconnects.

 

[Grumpycat]

Do you have the manufacturer name?

Pumped-storage hydroelectricity - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[MossRoad]

Do you have the manufacturer name?

From here:

Pumped Storage Hydropower

Pumped storage hydropower (PSH) is a type of hydroelectric energy storage. It is a configuration of two water reservoirs at different elevations that can generate power as water moves down from one to the other (discharge), passing through a turbine.

www.energy.gov

A clip from the article. Pretty interesting.

"The first known use cases of PSH were found in Italy and Switzerland in the 1890s, and PSH was first used in the United States in 1930. Now, PSH facilities can be found all around the world! According to the 2021 edition of the Hydropower Market Report, PSH currently accounts for 93% of all utility-scale energy storage in the United States. America currently has 43 PSH plants and has the potential to add enough new PSH plants to more than double its current PSH capacity."

 

[MossRoad]

 

[ROUSTABOUT]

Yes, he is smart guy. Growing up in the 60's and 70's smoking pot was very popular. I know several very intelligent people who smoked pot back in the day including scientists and engineers. I never saw a smart person turn dumb from smoking pot.

Known some smart alky haul it's too. A real fart smeller he was.

 

[Jstpssng]

Snow is one of the best known black bodies. Snow is its own worst enemy against melting in the sun. About the only energy it reflects is in our visible light spectrum, absorbs most everything else.

"Blanket of snow" literally helps keep the ground warm.

It actually can warm the soil, from creating a thermal blanket. If there is just a few inches of frost in the ground before it snows, the frost will be gone because of the heat seeping up.

 

[Hay Dude]

Your question is myopic. Doesn't matter "how much power". What matters is, "How much does it cost?" The cost in dollars is the only accurate metric of resource consumption. If the cost of production is less than the value of what is produced, then the endeavor will succeed.

Does that include 100’s of billions in “green new deal” taxpayer funded support?

 

[TN8Man]

Pumped-storage hydroelectricity - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Thanks for the link.

This Pumped-storage hydroelectricity system is used for load balancing during peak high electrical demand in conjunction with other primary energy sources.

What I was referring too was a energy storage system to be used when a city's primary energy source of solar and wind are not producing, like during darkness and no wing conditions. This system was not designed to solely supply the grid of a mid to large city during times when solar and wind systems are not producing.

 

[ROUSTABOUT]

Wow, I will say right now, I appreciate each and every one of you contributing to this wonderful discussion. Finally, after all this time, this website is becoming the place for the exchange of ideas. It don't get any more American than that. Keep them coming. This is so valuable. Anyone who comes across this will read it all from the beginning, you can't help it. We are covering so many topics in this discussion, with so many bright minds that add to the wisdom.

 

[lman]

There's a few crooks out there installing solar panels.

New Jersey solar company allegedly pressured vulnerable populations into contracts for 'a shoddy product'

A class-action lawsuit accuses Vision Solar of targeting vulnerable populations and misrepresenting the benefits of installing solar panel systems.

www.usatoday.com

 

[kenmbz]

Does that include 100’s of billions in “green new deal” taxpayer funded support?

You would argue with a stick that it's a rock

 

[MossRoad]

Some people have got together in one of our communities and are planning on installing a huge multi-acre solar farm on property adjacent to my daughter's and sister-in-law's property. They will be surrounded to the north and south of their properties and across the road. Their property value will go to nearly nothing.

Has anybody fought the installation of one of these?

Any ideas?

RSKY

So.... how's the information gathering going?

 

[Fuddyduddy1952]

Yes, he is smart guy. Growing up in the 60's and 70's smoking pot was very popular. I know several very intelligent people who smoked pot back in the day including scientists and engineers. I never saw a smart person turn dumb from smoking pot.

We have including my own brother. In his case it could be alcohol also, but anything...alcohol, marijuana, coke, heroin, LSD...I'm sure causes brain damage (quantity & frequency). I'm not a physician just observation. Pot users will defend it's use vigorously.

 

[kenmbz]

A deflection on your part for sure, but I think it’s my right as an American citizen to inquire how much G_______t “assistance” is being given to solar and wind power?

While I agree, I don't think anyone else is disagreeing.

 

[Hay Dude]

And more importantly, are We The People being told that wind/solar energy competes on a level playing field with NG, coal, nuclear power in terms of subsidies?

I’m all for clean air, water & soil, but there has to be a system in place that allows market forces to determine which is best. If it’s clean fossil fuels, then that’s the way to go.

Solar and wind are not clean. The process to create the equipment requires billions of gallons of fuel oils, mining of metals some of which are hazardous, and reliance on hostile foreign countries. I for one, am not comfortable with giving my national security up along with substantial subsidies.