Fighting 'Solar Farm' Installation

[MossRoad]

And they are cutting back now without the additional capacity anyway. Because they know that we need it, we shut off our own spigots, and they can pick our pockets. Unlike when we were expanding domestic production just a few short years ago to where we became a net EXPORTER.

And we haven’t even gotten to the looting of the SPR…

Our own spigots? That's funny.

The US does not produce any oil. It sells leases to private companies that sell it on the open market for profit. The US has not and never will be energy independent. Unless you are proposing a government takeover of the oil industry.

Here's a map of the world's largest state-owned oil companies. See the US there on the map. The US doesn't own any oil companies.

(click to enlarge)

 

[walhondingMF]

But the Pwers-That-Be want to eliminate it, regardless (or possibly even because they want) the repercussions.

take a step back for a sec… You want options. I want options. The Green Matia wants to take away options. They screwed over Germany by getting them to shut down their nuke plants because of Fukushima — even though Germany is not threatened by tsunamis! But is was a convenient excuse.

youncannot get to your solar and wind utopia without hydrocarbons. You cannot refine the structural materials without hydrocarbons. We do not have the ink capacity to fun electric foundries and keep everyone’s fridge running.

And you cannot bring in any manufacturing if you do not have the power to run it. I don’t care if it is solar manufacturing, greeting card manufacturing, kewpie doll manufacturing - and the energy and resources put into manufacturing “green energy” never will go into a net positive gain. Nuke is the way, but it is politically unsavory. Hydrocarbons have the energy density, portability, and convenience (you cannot bring a 5 gallon jug of windmill to your EV when it runs out…).

Doesnsolar have a place? Yes.
Does wind have a place? Yes.

(I have a vintage Winco windmill generator tucked away for SHTF)

but the push to eliminate hydrocarbon energy BEFORE sufficient alternative energy capacity is reached (sufficient meaning replace and Provide for GROWTH) is self-destructive. Especially when it replaces farmland.

Great points, we are not far apart. However, you are telling me that the powers that be want to eliminate hydrocabons. Yes they do, eventually. We all do. They are a limited resources (why there is very little coal mining in my region now) and fusion will eventually replace everything (hopefully). Just because a few people who are part of a political party say something does not mean that 1. everyone believes that and 2. that the policy will reflect that. NG has been pushed strongly by the current administration, as well as the 2 previous administrations. Some action towards green energies doesn't mean only action towards green energies. It's just not coal anymore and EVs have been added to the list.
Let's look at the auto industry for example. Oil companies don't like EVs. Well they should also hate the ecoboost, ecodiesel and the cylinder shut off engine in my chevy. Those options are still hydrocarbon based and use less gas (oil). Consumers wanted better gas mileage options, government encouraged this through gas mileage marks for manufactures, which they have meet. The average american wanted something, the government helped it along and here we are. Some "greenies" want everyone to walk. That doesn't mean it will happen. But a trend towards what the majority of Americans wanted is what happened, with help.

 

[walhondingMF]

I wonder how many solar panels would be needed to run, say, the Lodge Cookware foundry… and how many storage batteries would be needed, not just for regular production but to cover periods of bad weather . . . Over how much acreage…

Then don't use it there. Use NG. But there are many factories, especially out west, that use exclusively alternatives. Love them or hate them, but how do you think Musk powers his factories?

 

[WM75Guy]

I live in it also. I teach these peoples's kids. My son is friends with their son's. The pipelines were not built by locals. They were all from Texas. And they are gone now. A lot of the drilling is employing locals, not long term. They will have all the holes drilled soon, and then what? The NG power plant employed 500 construction workers. The local labor unions had to fight to make those jobs local and not bring in outside, temporary labor. It will only retain 25 long term jobs. My nephew works for a rig clean up company. He knows all the holes will be drilled soon. That's why he started a residential concrete construction company because people want sidewalks and patios from the money they get for leasing their land. NG has no long term employment options. Where do you propose these long term employment jobs come from?

Yep, we have lots of pipeline welders. At least when they all came back home the price for welding work went down.

 

[MAX-24-Dean]

So, how do you run an EV tractor for 24hrs for two weeks when harvest hast to come in? I know that drivers hot-swap in motion, refueling can be done in motion, but how can you do that with EV? And what are you charging them with?

The only way this will be feasable is to recharge the harvesting equipment in motion by having a diesel generator running. Or the farmers will have to buy extra $$$$$ expensive batteries and take the time to swap out them out, which will increase the time it takes to harvest the crop.
Option #2, is to have an extra Combine (harvester) on hand, just doesn't make economic sense.
EV farm equipment at this stage of technology is just virtue signalling, in my opinion.

 

[walhondingMF]

The only way this will be feasable is to recharge the harvesting equipment in motion by having a diesel generator running. Or the farmers will have to buy extra $$$$$ expensive batteries and take the time to swap out them out, which will increase the time it takes to harvest the crop.
Option #2, is to have an extra Combine (harvester) on hand, just doesn't make economic sense.
EV farm equipment at this stage of technology is just virtue signalling, in my opinion.

Completely agree. Some day, maybe, if there is a market for it. But you know what they could realistically move towards? Natural Gas/Propane tractors. There are semi's on the highways using it. The only thing holding back more of it is enough filling locations. I have to assume if the market pushes it enough, and the government, there will and should be more NG filling stations. It's cheaper than gas/diesel (oil) and the global market benefits us more.

 

[bvanek]

None of it would have done anything for the average person in the US.

This has data that clearly refutes this.....now I could ask you; hows the weather? and you could sit in your cubical and tell me it's sunny and yet the people standing outside in the rain have a different opinion.......

 

[Hay Dude]

Completely agree. Some day, maybe, if there is a market for it. But you know what they could realistically move towards? Natural Gas/Propane tractors. There are semi's on the highways using it. The only thing holding back more of it is enough filling locations. I have to assume if the market pushes it enough, and the government, there will and should be more NG filling stations. It's cheaper than gas/diesel (oil) and the global market benefits us more.

But the G________t picks winners and losers. The G________t decided that EV charging stations are what they want to spend taxpayer dollars helping get built, not NG filling stations. Again, they pick winners & losers and it ALWAYS fails.

Starting to understand now?

 

[Hay Dude]

Let's build stuff that accomplishes nothing to provide temporary jobs. Splendid.

At best, it was projected to provide a few thousand temporary jobs, and around 30-40 permanent jobs. The bang for the buck wasn't there. Nor was any relief at the pump for US citizens.

I saw 6,000 jobs and you darn well know that pipeline could have attracted oil refining at a terminal.
We will never know now, because those jobs and opportunities are forever lost.

 

[WM75Guy]

Unfortunately, CNG is still not a viable alternative for vehicles. If you buy a CNG vehicle make sure it is dual fuel capable. When I worked for one city in the NE suburbs of Fort Worth, my brother was in charge of fleet services the next city over. Cities were mandated to have a certain percentage of their fleet purchases with alternative fuel. This was before electric vehicles. He bought 1 CNG Chevrolet pickup that was not dual fuel to test them out. It was only used to take water samples to the lab in Dallas as it had a range of 100 miles on a tank of CNG. There was 1 fill station in NE Fort Worth. The pickup would leave the shop, go 10 miles to fill up, go to the lab, and return to the shop. Normally they would have enough fuel the next day to make it to the fill station. Occasionally the truck would get stuck in Dallas traffic, run out of fuel, and have to be towed to the fill station.

There are currently 2 CNG fill locations in Fort Worth.

 

[Hay Dude]

As of 2021, there were 255,000 people employed in the US solar industry. Next report due in summer of 2023.

Solar Jobs Census

IREC's annual Solar Jobs Census is the authoritative account on solar jobs and the state of the workforce.

irecusa.org

And how many FF jobs were lost because of those jobs?

You can’t keep going on spouting off about solar jobs being amazing without understanding it costs jobs on the other end by elimination of the existing FF jobs!

 

[walhondingMF]

But the G________t picks winners and losers. The G________t decided that EV charging stations are what they want to spend taxpayer dollars helping get built, not NG filling stations. Again, they pick winners & losers and it ALWAYS fails.

Starting to understand now?

Actually they are making NG refill stations more and more common, especially throughout the Midwest where cross country semis run. The government is picking NG along with EV.

Hay Dude, I have understood very well that the government picks and chooses. I have repeatedly stated that in my posts, several of which in direct response to you. I have understood that long before you attempted to educate me on something I already know and have shown I know. Please attempt to read, and comprehend, my posts. You are simply ignoring what I say to continue your narrative with no formative or new responses to my statements so you can stick to a narrative. An attempt at gas lighting.
I am attempting to tell you that the government is picking one of the winners you want along with others. So, I believe saying that it ALWAYS fails is inaccurate. You wanted the government to pick the XL pipeline. The land owners and native tribes wanted the government to choose them.

Starting to understand now?

 

[walhondingMF]

And how many FF jobs were lost because of those jobs?

You can’t keep going on spouting off about solar jobs being amazing without understanding it costs jobs on the other end by elimination of the existing FF jobs!

Jesus this has happened in pretty much every industry for as long as industry has existed! Every time a job is automated, someone loses a job. Coal miners in Ohio and Penn have lost jobs, but NG has created many in turn. People that made buggies lost jobs when the car was created. How about the guy that made wooden buckets when the metal bucket was made. You claim that people want good, long term jobs, but then complain about the type. Pipeline work is temporary work, but a factory (regardless of what it makes) lasts a lot longer.

 

[tbaker4]

Some people have got together in one of our communities and are planning on installing a huge multi-acre solar farm on property adjacent to my daughter's and sister-in-law's property. They will be surrounded to the north and south of their properties and across the road. Their property value will go to nearly nothing.

Has anybody fought the installation of one of these?

Any ideas?

RSKY

My best friend talked me into being his legislative aide when he was elected to the Nebraska Legislature in 2016. We represent a very large, sparsely populated district. Since then, we have been introducing bills to kill industrial wind turbines and solar farms from ruining our state with mixed results. They are a scam that makes electricity more expensive and less reliable. They have a well-funded lobby and they are hard to defeat. I strongly recommend you become active in your local units of government. A city council or a county board of commissioners/supervisors can kill a wind/solar project with local zoning ordinances much quicker than the state legislature can. The very best way to fight these things is to find good candidates for city and county boards, and then get behind them. Support their campaigns, knock on doors, put up signs, organize events, and get them elected. Good luck!

 

[bvanek]

The US does not produce any oil. It sells leases to private companies that sell it on the open market for profit. The US has not and never will be energy independent. Unless you are proposing a government takeover of the oil industry.

Corporate America runs the government. They elect and appoint representatives to influence their cause....For the last several decades China and the global elites have a huge presence in how we run our country. So essentially we are already state run.
The last administration was taking steps to return power to the people and in the process preserve what has built strong economies around the world. there was no adverse effects on our local pollution levels. So depending on who's in charge we can be energy independent as a nation. That is, one geared towards serving it's people as intended.

Any business is in it for profit and often the consumer gets gouged in the process. However that was generally not the case for this brief moment in time 2017-2020......the dollar got stronger, peoples wages were up, stock market went up, inflation down, trade deficits reduced, etc. Essentially a thriving economy and the fossil fuels industries finally had the inside track on producing and drilling domestically.....The leases were stopped .....and regulations applied instantly in 2021. incentives removed away from fossil fuels and into wind and solar. (they don't want nuclear either)

No matter how you wish to spin it, the bottom dropped out. Some wind and solar promoters in here are on board with natural gas but war was declared on all fossil fuels and natural gas exploration and fracking was also on the chopping block....You see it's not about a systematic progress to cleaner energy, its about eliminating choices under authoritarian measures......The "deep state" if you will

Remember replacing fossil fuels might be inevitable....But not without enormous cost. The US is 32 trillion in debt and counting, essentially we are bankrupting ourselves. If the world switches off the US dollar we will collapse. We are in no position to a "cart before the horse" green energy advancement The "green new deal" is a socialist platform that will only be affordable and then controlled by a selected few at the top of the world stage. I do believe wind and solar will play a minor role on a small scale, perhaps in local areas, but we have a national grid that is not in place and falling apart...... nor is it protected from sabotage such as EMP's that China and our other adversaries have capabilities to knock out.

I say we wise up......

 

[KilroyJC]

Our own spigots? That's funny.

The US does not produce any oil. It sells leases to private companies that sell it on the open market for profit. The US has not and never will be energy independent. Unless you are proposing a government takeover of the oil industry.

Here's a map of the world's largest state-owned oil companies. See the US there on the map. The US doesn't own any oil companies.

(click to enlarge)

View attachment 798596

“funny.

The US does not produce any oil.”

Pedantry.


OK fine.

HYDROCARBONS EXTRACTED FEOM WITHIN THE TERRITORIAL BORDERS OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA.

Happy?

 

[Fuddyduddy1952]

Lots of people to argue turn to internet research.

 

[KilroyJC]

Great points, we are not far apart. However, you are telling me that the powers that be want to eliminate hydrocabons. Yes they do, eventually. We all do. They are a limited resources (why there is very little coal mining in my region now) and fusion will eventually replace everything (hopefully). Just because a few people who are part of a political party say something does not mean that 1. everyone believes that and 2. that the policy will reflect that. NG has been pushed strongly by the current administration, as well as the 2 previous administrations. Some action towards green energies doesn't mean only action towards green energies. It's just not coal anymore and EVs have been added to the list.
Let's look at the auto industry for example. Oil companies don't like EVs. Well they should also hate the ecoboost, ecodiesel and the cylinder shut off engine in my chevy. Those options are still hydrocarbon based and use less gas (oil). Consumers wanted better gas mileage options, government encouraged this through gas mileage marks for manufactures, which they have meet. The average american wanted something, the government helped it along and here we are. Some "greenies" want everyone to walk. That doesn't mean it will happen. But a trend towards what the majority of Americans wanted is what happened, with help.

You cannot eliminate hydrocarbons.

how many gallons of lubricants are required for a wind generator?

How do you insulate electric cables with sunbeams?

hydrocarbons are essential and saying “We all do” (want to eliminate hydrocarbons) is a blatantly ridiculous assertion.

I like my hydrocarbons, especially since I am made up of so many.

 

[walhondingMF]

Corporate America runs the government. They elect and appoint representatives to influence their cause....For the last several decades China and the global elites have a huge presence in how we run our country. So essentially we are already state run.
The last administration was taking steps to return power to the people and in the process preserve what has built strong economies around the world. there was no adverse effects on our local pollution levels. So depending on who's in charge we can be energy independent as a nation. That is, one geared towards serving it's people as intended.

And how is putting money into American jobs (energy components production, microchip factories, etc) not doing the same thing. You really don't believe that any legislation changed under the previous administration that had an overall positive on the American economy, and didn't also have an adverse affect on other parts of the economy. Like it or not, Ford moved to Mexico along with Carrier and Saudi Arabia became our friend (because of our dependence on them for oil). China makes things that our economy needs, like it or not. And until we start making those things here, you are only hurting the people, especially in America, that make products with components from China.
The only way for America to be energy independent is to us our NG (which we are doing) and use alternative options where they work best, while making all of these products in American factories. I'll say it again... saying you did something and having actually done it are two different things...

 

[walhondingMF]

Corporate America runs the government. They elect and appoint representatives to influence their cause....For the last several decades China and the global elites have a huge presence in how we run our country. So essentially we are already state run.
The last administration was taking steps to return power to the people and in the process preserve what has built strong economies around the world. there was no adverse effects on our local pollution levels. So depending on who's in charge we can be energy independent as a nation. That is, one geared towards serving it's people as intended.

Any business is in it for profit and often the consumer gets gouged in the process. However that was generally not the case for this brief moment in time 2017-2020......the dollar got stronger, peoples wages were up, stock market went up, inflation down, trade deficits reduced, etc. Essentially a thriving economy and the fossil fuels industries finally had the inside track on producing and drilling domestically.....The leases were stopped .....and regulations applied instantly in 2021. incentives removed away from fossil fuels and into wind and solar. (they don't want nuclear either)

No matter how you wish to spin it, the bottom dropped out. Some wind and solar promoters in here are on board with natural gas but war was declared on all fossil fuels and natural gas exploration and fracking was also on the chopping block....You see it's not about a systematic progress to cleaner energy, its about eliminating choices under authoritarian measures......The "deep state" if you will

Remember replacing fossil fuels might be inevitable....But not without enormous cost. The US is 32 trillion in debt and counting, essentially we are bankrupting ourselves. If the world switches off the US dollar we will collapse. We are in no position to a "cart before the horse" green energy advancement The "green new deal" is a socialist platform that will only be affordable and then controlled by a selected few at the top of the world stage. I do believe wind and solar will play a minor role on a small scale, perhaps in local areas, but we have a national grid that is not in place and falling apart...... nor is it protected from sabotage such as EMP's that China and our other adversaries have capabilities to knock out.

I say we wise up......

So, what is your plan?