Fighting 'Solar Farm' Installation

[lman]

Attached is info regarding the country's largest solar project under construction south of where I'm at.

Mammoth Solar | Doral Renewables

gegrenewables.com

‘It’s got nasty’: the battle to build the US’s biggest solar power farm

A community turns on itself over the aptly named Mammoth solar project, a planned $1.5bn power field nearly the size of Manhattan

www.theguardian.com

 

[TN8Man]

Attached is info regarding the country's largest solar project under construction south of where I'm at.

Mammoth Solar | Doral Renewables

gegrenewables.com

‘It’s got nasty’: the battle to build the US’s biggest solar power farm

A community turns on itself over the aptly named Mammoth solar project, a planned $1.5bn power field nearly the size of Manhattan

www.theguardian.com

From the "Its got nasty" article: "“This is no longer really about the solar applications; it’s more about driving the community apart”

Isn't interesting that this politically partisan "green energy" agenda is dividing communities where green energy projects are built.

My question is why are we shutting down our traditional proven and reliable energy infrastructure and replacing it with a inferior technology that can't provide adequate energy to run our nation?

We can't even afford this transition as its driving our economy into the ground.

Who is making all this big money from the "green agenda"? China? Politicians?

How is this impacting our national security?

 

[LouNY]

I've mentioned before that an 1100 acre solar farm is going in west of us. It's on some great farmland. With that said, here's some pros for this solar farm:

- the families that own the land are leasing it to a solar company, so the farmers are retaining the ownership of THEIR land.
- That land usually brings in about $80K in taxes annually.
- The solar farm will bring in $2.7M in taxes annually at first, and will bring in $30million over 30 years. So $2.4 million AG over 30 years VS $30 million SOLAR over 30 years in taxes.
- The land will be idle during that 30 year term, so it will rebuild VS being worked.
- No chemical applications.
- No fertilizer applications.
- No water usage (it's currently irrigated with center pivot).
- It will be planted with native grasses and pollinator crops under the panels, so it will be used for honey production.
- Sheep are another possibility under the panels.
- The plants will stabilize the soil, so no wind or rain or erosion.
- There will be 200 construction jobs.
- There will be 3-5 permanent jobs created.
- There will be an educational opportunity for local schools, K through College.
- It won't require any new public support, as no roads, water, sewer, or extra police or fire services will be needed.
- There will be an educational opportunity for local schools, K through College.
- After 30 years, the panels can be removed or replaced. If they are removed, the land will be well-rested, and can go back in to crop production. If they are replaced, the process starts over again, more than likely with better solar panels than before.
Anyhow, just some interesting reading. The families that own the land are the ones driving the bus, using THEIR LAND for THEIR BUSINESS.

Honeysuckle solar project in Indiana | Lightsource bp USA

Learn more about Lightsource bp's Honeysuckle Solar farm project in St. Joseph County, Indiana.

lightsourcebp.com

I'll agree with most of the listed items.
However not these;
- The land will be idle during that 30 year term, so it will rebuild VS being worked. not much
- No chemical applications. I'd be surprised
The plants will stabilize the soil, so no wind or rain or erosion. wait and see
- There will be an educational opportunity for local schools, K through College. bull, smoke and mirrors
- After 30 years, the panels can be removed or replaced. If they are removed, the land will be well-rested, and can go back in to crop production. If they are replaced, the process starts over again, more than likely with better solar panels than before.
The removal process is going to be very disruptive if done, I have to wonder about the possibilities that it will fail to be done unless the panels are being replaced with housing. With the rapid turnover of companies "owning" the panels and leases I expect that much of the guaranties will be absolutely worthless.

 

[turbo36]

View attachment 794333

Yep, this one picture alone proves that solar energy won't work! However, the truth is the snow will melt quickly, and some systems are starting to incorporate heating elements so your picture is pretty much invalid.

Let it Snow: How Solar Panels Can Thrive in Winter Weather

Winter is here and many parts of the country have already seen snow. Although at first blush it may seem that solar power is ideal for the summer, solar panels actually produce useful power throughout all four seasons — including when they're covered...

www.energy.gov

 

[turbo36]

I've mentioned before that an 1100 acre solar farm is going in west of us. It's on some great farmland. With that said, here's some pros for this solar farm:

- the families that own the land are leasing it to a solar company, so the farmers are retaining the ownership of THEIR land.
- That land usually brings in about $80K in taxes annually.
- The solar farm will bring in $2.7M in taxes annually at first, and will bring in $30million over 30 years. So $2.4 million AG over 30 years VS $30 million SOLAR over 30 years in taxes.
- The land will be idle during that 30 year term, so it will rebuild VS being worked.
- No chemical applications.
- No fertilizer applications.
- No water usage (it's currently irrigated with center pivot).
- It will be planted with native grasses and pollinator crops under the panels, so it will be used for honey production.
- Sheep are another possibility under the panels.
- The plants will stabilize the soil, so no wind or rain or erosion.
- There will be 200 construction jobs.
- There will be 3-5 permanent jobs created.
- There will be an educational opportunity for local schools, K through College.
- It won't require any new public support, as no roads, water, sewer, or extra police or fire services will be needed.
- After 30 years, the panels can be removed or replaced. If they are removed, the land will be well-rested, and can go back in to crop production. If they are replaced, the process starts over again, more than likely with better solar panels than before.

Anyhow, just some interesting reading. The families that own the land are the ones driving the bus, using THEIR LAND for THEIR BUSINESS.

Honeysuckle solar project in Indiana | Lightsource bp USA

Learn more about Lightsource bp's Honeysuckle Solar farm project in St. Joseph County, Indiana.

lightsourcebp.com

Moss, good post.
Solar panels are just something new that will take a while for people to get used to them, kind of like when you move from the farm to the city, everything grabs your attention and your head spins around like the girl in the Exorcist movie.

I drive out west to Utah and Colorado a lot and there are a lot of wind farms on that route. At first, windmills were a bit disruptive, because I had't seen lot of windmills in my life. But after a while I got used to them, and in fact I actually started looking forward to the next batch of them. At night all the blinking red lights are really something to see, especially in the fog.

 

[Rockbadchild]

Yep, this one picture alone proves that solar energy won't work! However, the truth is the snow will melt quickly, and some systems are starting to incorporate heating elements so your picture is pretty much invalid.

Let it Snow: How Solar Panels Can Thrive in Winter Weather

Winter is here and many parts of the country have already seen snow. Although at first blush it may seem that solar power is ideal for the summer, solar panels actually produce useful power throughout all four seasons — including when they're covered...

www.energy.gov

yeah lets use power so you can make power make sense ...usually these heat trace grid are pretty spars from one to the other so it can take a while if its pretty cold and thick snow plus lots of existing one are not equipped with them. So it is still a reality and the reality is there for anywhere from 3 to 7 days a winter ... that means you are not getting the power during these days so you can't depend on that power during these days plus the days it is overcast ... so it is valid regardless

 

[turbo36]

yeah lets use power so you can make power make sense ...usually these heat trace grid are pretty spars from one to the other so it can take a while if its pretty cold and thick snow plus lots of existing one are not equipped with them. So it is still a reality and the reality is there for anywhere from 3 to 7 days a winter ... that means you are not getting the power during these days so you can't depend on that power during these days plus the days it is overcast ... so it is valid regardless

If we didn't use power to make power, there wouldn't be any power generation in the world! How much power does it take to mine coal? How much power does it take to cool the generation plants either coal or nuclear? And then how about all the power that is used in the transportation of the components that are needed for power generation? You made a non-serious statement that makes the rest of your argument seem less valid.

 

[dodge man]

I don’t know this for a fact but I‘m pretty sure it true but when a wind farm near here built it generated quite a bit of property tax for a small school district. The state cut back its contribution so they didn’t really come out ahead.

 

[Mtsoxfan]

I don’t know this for a fact but I‘m pretty sure it true but when a wind farm near here built it generated quite a bit of property tax for a small school district. The state cut back its contribution so they didn’t really come out ahead.

It's possible. While living in CT, when they were proposing the lottery, casinos, scratchers etc. they claimed the majority of the money would go to education. It pretty much went into the general fund, where some did go to education, but no more than they had done previously. just gave the state more funds to spend on what they wanted.

 

[MossRoad]

How are the getting the power into the "system" will new lines and a substation have to be built?

That's the biggest issue we face here. The integration points for the farms traverse other people properties and well....120 foot tandem towers are not pretty sitting a few hundred feet from a house.

There are existing transmission lines and sub station in the area. I'd much rather see solar farms down low than wind farms that forever alter the horizon.

 

[kenmbz]

One day Nuclear energy will be realistic, it's a great source but leaves a huge mess behind.
Coal is dirty even with scrubbers. When I was a kid rain washed cars, now it just covers them with dust. Scranton used to have black sky year round. London fog was coal.
Natural Gas is cleaner and is a great source until it either runs out or gets to cold.

So we need to spend time/effort to look for what happens when oil/gas run out. You can say it will take a thousand years, but no one knows and it gets more expensive every year to get more.

Fracking caused earthquakes, so it needs to be planned better, and not by greedy oil companies.

Solar, wind, water electrical have high maintenance, but seem to produce less waste, yet to be seen and we will run into disposal problems if recycling isnt's at the forefront, which it is not as it costs money that has no financial return as far as producers are concerned.

I still would rather have solar fields than nuclear as they are currently. A tornado, earthquake or other natural disaster (like in Japan) creates problems for thousand of years with nuclear.
And burying the waste is one of the silliest disposal methods I have ever heard of. How long do the barrels last vs. the spent fuel??

There are two types of uranium used for fuel in nuclear reactors, U-238 and U-235. [3] The half-life of U-235 is 700 million years, while U-238 has a much larger half-life of 4.5 billion years

 

[MossRoad]

LouNY bold, MossRoad bold blue

I'll agree with most of the listed items.
However not these;
- The land will be idle during that 30 year term, so it will rebuild VS being worked. not much The plants they will plant are proven to add to the soil as they decay.
- No chemical applications. I'd be surprised Compared to farming activities currently in the area, I wouldn't.
The plants will stabilize the soil, so no wind or rain or erosion. wait and see After the crops have been harvested, and especially in spring, we have dust storms here that blacken the sky until the crops emerge. I don't have to wait and see, as I've witnessed it for 62 years. Tilled fields VS no till fields and wind and rain erosion control are blatantly obvious. Have been for decades. Proven.
- There will be an educational opportunity for local schools, K through College. bull, smoke and mirrors The University of Notre Dame is located here. They have set up many educational programs on many topics in the area. I would not be surprised at all if they got involved, as they already have made a commitment to lower their use of fossil fuels and use cleaner natural gas VS coal. They pull from an existing 200 acre solar farm, are building a small solar farm on campus, are just finishing up a hydro-electric plant in downtown, and are currently tearing out all of the coal equipment that powered the university for the last 100 something years; coal boilers, boiler house, coal storage, ash disposal, etc. as they recently converted to NG. no smoke - plenty of mirrors.
- After 30 years, the panels can be removed or replaced. If they are removed, the land will be well-rested, and can go back in to crop production. If they are replaced, the process starts over again, more than likely with better solar panels than before.
The removal process is going to be very disruptive if done, I have to wonder about the possibilities that it will fail to be done unless the panels are being replaced with housing. With the rapid turnover of companies "owning" the panels and leases I expect that much of the guaranties will be absolutely worthless. That is about the only thing I'll agree with you on as a wait and see. With past track records of companies leaving brown field areas in our community, it's a real possibility.

 

[Jstpssng]

^^^
At any rate I won’t be around in 30 years, making them somebody else’s problem. Hopefully we will have that figured out before then.

 

[MossRoad]

Moss, good post.
Solar panels are just something new that will take a while for people to get used to them, kind of like when you move from the farm to the city, everything grabs your attention and your head spins around like the girl in the Exorcist movie.

I drive out west to Utah and Colorado a lot and there are a lot of wind farms on that route. At first, windmills were a bit disruptive, because I had't seen lot of windmills in my life. But after a while I got used to them, and in fact I actually started looking forward to the next batch of them. At night all the blinking red lights are really something to see, especially in the fog.

I do not like the view of wind farms. They permanently disrupt the view of the horizon, and the red lights all at once for as far as you can see would drive me nuts. I like looking out my windows at night and seeing stars.

I noticed another wind farm off to the east of US 31 somewhere on our drive home north from Indy on Friday. I probably wouldn't have noticed it had it not been for the blinking synchronized lights.

At least solar farms are down low, and pretty easy to to planting around the perimeters to limit the view of them. And they don't glow at night.

 

[Hay Dude]

Some people have got together in one of our communities and are planning on installing a huge multi-acre solar farm on property adjacent to my daughter's and sister-in-law's property. They will be surrounded to the north and south of their properties and across the road. Their property value will go to nearly nothing.

Has anybody fought the installation of one of these?

Any ideas?

RSKY

I cannot imagine the stress that your family must be dealing with as your daughter and sister in law have to face “big solar” turning their property‘s value significantly downward.
This country is changing so rapidly, many of us can’t keep pace. Extreme inflation, energy dependence on foreign countries, corruption…..it puts us all at risk.

My suggestion would probably be to sell. Maybe even ask the solar company if they would like to buy it?

 

[Hay Dude]

Moss, good post.
Solar panels are just something new that will take a while for people to get used to them, kind of like when you move from the farm to the city, everything grabs your attention and your head spins around like the girl in the Exorcist movie.

I drive out west to Utah and Colorado a lot and there are a lot of wind farms on that route. At first, windmills were a bit disruptive, because I had't seen lot of windmills in my life. But after a while I got used to them, and in fact I actually started looking forward to the next batch of them. At night all the blinking red lights are really something to see, especially in the fog.

Are you serious?
You like the view of windmills interrupting the views of beautiful mountains, valleys & beautiful open spaces?
Blinking red lights in the sky at night blocking the view of the Heavens?
Lord help us…..

 

[turbo36]

I do not like the view of wind farms. They permanently disrupt the view of the horizon, and the red lights all at once for as far as you can see would drive me nuts. I like looking out my windows at night and seeing stars.

I noticed another wind farm off to the east of US 31 somewhere on our drive home north from Indy on Friday. I probably wouldn't have noticed it had it not been for the blinking synchronized lights.

At least solar farms are down low, and pretty easy to to planting around the perimeters to limit the view of them. And they don't glow at night.

Just goes to show how different people are. Blondes, brunettes, redheads, etc. etc.

 

[turbo36]

Are you serious?
You like the view of windmills interrupting the views of beautiful mountains, valleys & beautiful open spaces?
Lord help us…..

Yes, it reminds me of the smell of money. Also, there aren't too many mountains in Iowa and Nebraska last time I went through there.

 

[Rockbadchild]

If we didn't use power to make power, there wouldn't be any power generation in the world! How much power does it take to mine coal? How much power does it take to cool the generation plants either coal or nuclear? And then how about all the power that is used in the transportation of the components that are needed for power generation? You made a non-serious statement that makes the rest of your argument seem less valid.

For one it was only a picture, no word attached you made your own interpretation of that picture, I never said its was to prove that solar won't work... it to show that they are not always reliable and consistent... All you exemple are a investment, using energy to make more energy but once the operation starts you make constant energy, every day until you overcome the deficit and beyond... once solar panel are snow covered not only you are not making power to pay for that investment you are using power to melt the snow, so it is not helping anybody and even worse it increasing the deficit. Yes during the summer you are making more power but if you don't need it on that day or that time that panel won't store that power for when we need it. Out here we have very short days and lots of over cast days so if you are using power to keep them warm all the time (I don't know if that's the case. is it automatic, manual ? ) I would be wondering how much NET power they are really making (after expense) during the winter, therefore how much money on the total investment are they generating... Solar panel are only good for so long, they have a total cost and a total revenue per year and you have to make money with them by the time they need to be replace without the help of our tax.... as long as they are its fine by me, but they are still not dependable.

For everything you mentioned even if you are in a deficit by millions of dollars / energy spend during the construction (the initial investment) once production start you have to make consistently more then you used to pay for that investment ... if something use more energy then it makes then it is a deficit and there is no point doing it. There is resource everywhere that are not profitable so they are not exploited... we will never ran out of oil or minerals on this planet we will run out of affordable resource to exploit.

 

[K5lwq]

At least with windmills the ground can still be farmed. And the lease can help farmers be more profitable. I am ok with anything that helps farmers!