Fence posts and CCA

[Illiniwek]

I know that most fence posts are CCA treated, which means (I guess) that they have arsenic in the treatment solution. Pressure-treated lumber available from the bigger hardware stores has ACQ and not the CCA junk, but it looks like the fence posts on sale at Tractor Supply still have the CCA.

How much do I have to worry about working with these posts and/or sinking the posts into the ground when I'm on a well? I've heard some horror stories about children and playground equipment and people inhaling sawdust and such...

 

[Illiniwek]

Oops...just found some great stuff in another thread on composting...

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=projects&Number=268606&

 

[Anonymous Poster]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Pressure-treated lumber available from the bigger hardware stores has ACQ and not the CCA junk,..... )</font>

The PT lumber I bought at HD the other day was CCA treated--not ACQ, and they had warning signs posted. It was the first time I've noticed the signs.

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( I've heard some horror stories about children and playground equipment and people inhaling sawdust and such... )</font>

Were these rumors or documented occurrences? I know a lot of people that have been around and worked with CCA and creosote treated lumber for much of their adult lives. I don't know anyone who claims to have been harmed by it.

How far is your well from the post location? What type of soil do you have? How high is the water table in your area? How deep is the well? These would all factor into the equation, as would the ground migration rates for CCA in different soil types. There is a study posted somewhere on the web (sorry, I forget where) that discusses ground migration rates of CCA. You could try searching for it using Google or your favorite search engine.

SnowRidge

 

[cowboydoc]

You will be fine. Virtually no way your wellwater is going to be contaminated. These post like this have been in the ground for decades and there has not been any well contamination.

 

[dmccarty]

Illiniwek,

I don't think CCA treated wood is junk. I few years ago I read
up on CCA. From what I could read the hysteria about CCA is
a bunch of bunk. If you search the EPA web site you should
find some studies about CCA and form your own opinion.

I read the study which was the one that was used to phase
out CCA use. No where in the study did I ever see that CCA
WOULD cause health problems in normal use. I saw lots of
MIGHT kind of language. I don't worry about my kids playing
on a CCA treat playset.

On the other hand I would not want to burn CCA wood. I
would not play with the ashes of burned CCA wood and I
would not want to breathe in ALOT of CCA sawdust.

Ask this question. If CCA is SOOOOOO bad why has the
EPA NOT recommended or ordered the removal of all exposed
CCA treated wood?

Later,
Dan McCarty

 

[rdln]

It seems to me the cheap fence posts are just dipped into CCA solution and not forced into the grain by pressure.

Look for cedar posts as an alternative.

 

[Alan L.]

Thats troubling information. I have a dog fence with the tractor supply fenceposts. One of the posts is 2 feet from my wellhead. It is a 500 foot well.

 

[cowboydoc]

Look for cedar posts as an alternative.

I know a fencing company who is facing bankruptcy over cedar posts. Back when the rage was cedar posts these guys put in thousands. Now 10 years later they are all rotting and people are wanting new fences. The posts were supposedly good for 30 years. If you have any doubt go shake some 10 year old posts around here and see how sturdy they are. Most around break off at the ground.

 

[Chuck52]

Alan,

Copper, chromium and arsenic are everywhere. Kinda like anthrax. Some areas of the country have sufficient natural arsenic in the ground water to give a concentration above the EPA guidelines. Even at normal, background concentrations of those metals, imagine how much is in the soil and rock separating your aquifer from those fence posts. I wouldn't want to use a freshly CCA treated bucket to draw water from my well, but after soaking it for a few years, I'd bet the available/exchangeable copper, chromium and arsenic would be low enough to be undetectable in any water moved in the bucket. I am not saying that CCA treated lumber is safe for all uses, but fence posts sure seem like a good use to me.

Chuck

 

[Bird]

Richard, I know nothing about the cedar posts that have been cured, etc. specifically for use as fence posts, but I can certainly believe what you just said. A neighbor had some large cedars removed from his place, and I cut a bunch of it for fence posts and they didn't even last 6 years. /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif I'll bet I don't use cedar again. /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

 

[SteveBenson]

>Ask this question. If CCA is SOOOOOO bad why has the
EPA NOT recommended or ordered the removal of all exposed CCA treated wood?

It's just a matter of time? CCA is the next abspestos. I agree, it's a load of huey. But these decisions are not generally rational.

 

[gws]

All the radon testing people needed somthing new to test because people figured out that was BS... So CCA, Yea, if you worked in a manufacturing plant and spent most of your life there you might get poisended. If your built decks for a living you might have an issue. The average Joe doesnt have an issue. CCA has been around for a long time for children playgrounds, decks, fence post.

 

[turnkey4099]

re Cedar posts lasting only 10 years (or 6). My experience with both cedar and cca 4x4 is the same. If you get 10 years out of either one you are lucky.

Harry K

 

[Anonymous Poster]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( My experience with both cedar and cca 4x4 is the same. If you get 10 years out of either one you are lucky )</font>

What CCA treatment level did those posts have? I've seen as low as .25 sold in box stores, which isn't rated for ground contact. For a while in Florida, Lowes and HD were selling PT lumber for exactly the same price. Trouble was, the Lowes PT was .40, while the HD stuff was only .25.

It pays to check and see what you are getting--or how bad you are getting had. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

SnowRidge

 

[turnkey4099]

I did (and do) check. I have used them at various times over the years and buy them at a -real- lumber yard. All were ground rated. My lates ones were the fence arount my dish antenna. rotted at ground level in ca 10 years (not sure exactly. Of course the usual 4x4 post are -not- made of the greatest grade of wood.

Harry K

 

[Anonymous Poster]

If you are near saltwater, you might be able to find PT with much higher retention ratings. I used to buy PT with a 2.5 rating. The yard that I bought it from specialized in lumber for saltwater applications, and I think the lowest rating they carried was .60.

Interestingly, most of their stuff wasn't dimensional either. When you bought a 2x10, you got lumber that really was 2 inches by 10 inches. Of course, it all cost quite a bit more than the stuff at the 'Borg.'

By the way, it all came from a supplier in Georgia--and was for 'Professional Use Only." /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

SnowRidge

 

[mikim]

I've got cedar posts in Bastrop that I cut and skinned myself that I planted 18 years ago and they're still there -- They're showing age - but they're still doing the job. I think skinning the bark off is key.