FEL repair kit

[bearhawk]

I think they will do a recall once the first cracking arms fail and cause injury to someone

There is virtually no chance that *normal* operation of the loader could cause injury to anyone.

You could completely remove the crossbar, then the hydraulics and the bucket would keep everything aligned. A little more deflection yes, but injury no.

Stop feeding the fire.

 

[Gittyup]

There is virtually no chance that *normal* operation of the loader could cause injury to anyone.

You could completely remove the crossbar, then the hydraulics and the bucket would keep everything aligned. A little more deflection yes, but injury no.

Stop feeding the fire.

Unless, the failure caused a sudden shift in the bucket load such that the tractor rolled over, or something like that.

Also, I know of one failed loader: mine. Didn't crack in half, but doesn't sit level anymore. It's now useless for ground finish work. That, to me, is a failure.

I think it's criminal that Kioti would charge for new arms on the KL130's. They've known about this problem for well over a year now. If they can't provide a "repair kit" that works, then they should replace the arms. After all, how long is reasonable before a fix must be made available to everyone? That time, in this case, certainly has come and gone.

 

[IXLR8]

The dealer I talked with that is putting the kits on the KL130's, did say that of the 15-20 that he has done, one did not fit correctly. I did not ask him what he did about it.

 

[gravel13]

Also, I know of one failed loader: mine. Didn't crack in half, but doesn't sit level anymore. It's now useless for ground finish work. That, to me, is a failure.

Do you have the KL130 or the KL120? If you have the KL130 I'd be interested in how large the cracks are. Mine still have not extended past the inspection plate (I have 122 +- hrs with probably half loader and half backhoe time) Just curious as to how large the cracks get before you start to notice something going on with the loader, as in this case not sitting level. (Also not trying to add fuel to the fire.)

 

[Gittyup]

Do you have the KL130 or the KL120? If you have the KL130 I'd be interested in how large the cracks are. Mine still have not extended past the inspection plate (I have 122 +- hrs with probably half loader and half backhoe time) Just curious as to how large the cracks get before you start to notice something going on with the loader, as in this case not sitting level. (Also not trying to add fuel to the fire.)

I have 190 hours on my machine. About 130 of those are backhoe time, another 10 or so of post hole digging, another 10 or so of chipping, about 5 more of back blading. That leaves less than 45 hours of work involving the loader, which was mostly moving mulch. I did a small amount of digging into a bank, and moved some loose dirt, with a little back dragging. Also pushed brush into piles and ferried wet cement to a foundation pour in it. Pretty much all light duty stuff. My cracks extend slightly into the bend starting up the orthogonal face of the cross member, all four places. Bucket sits out of level by about 1.75" side to side. You can see it twist if put under even the slightest load. If you can help it, don't wait 'til this happens to you.

 

[Gittyup]

BTW. It is a KL130 loader.

 

[laurencen]

Hi, not feeding anything, if the cross brace is not realy needed then why make a heavier one, if the cross brace was not functioning, say you had a load one side of the bucket or digging a root and the one side caught the solid lift then would the side trapped stay down and the other lift, the cylinders work on a teed pressure line so if you restrict one the other extends out fully, who knows what effect this would have on the pivot links, not winding anyone up, if I did sorry, if you have a cracking loader its simple, cut it out and its not cracked anymore, problem solved. Now, injury can happen on any equipment no matter how safe its made, I think Kioti have somewhere made a note that if any equipment upon inspection is not in good order then do not use it, obviously cracking is not included, if you flex anything long enough it will fail, lets hope its still under waranty

 

[gravel13]

Thanks for the reply Gittyup. Right now my cracks are still rather small, as I said they don't extend past the inspection plate. I'll have to try to contact my dealer, unfortunately he was the one who no longer carries Kioti tractors , but he still gets parts and will do repairs. I remember him saying he had kits but they didn't fit any of the loaders on his lot at the time. Who knows, maybe he still has them and they will fit mine.

 

[IslandTractor]

Also, I know of one failed loader: mine. Didn't crack in half, but doesn't sit level anymore. It's now useless for ground finish work. That, to me, is a failure.

I'm not convinced that "not sitting level" is a result of the torque tube cracking. To my knowledge no one else has reported this particular problem as a manifestation of the cracking issue. On the other hand, there are numerous reports of loaders that don't sit level on other tractors (check out posts on the Kubota B3030 from a year or so ago, other tractor brands involved too) where there has not been any cracking issue. I think I recall that lack of level has been reported on brand new tractors too.

Your FEL use sounds minimal and certainly not severe duty. I used my cracked KL120 quite aggressively with a grapple and despite putting heavy and sometimes asymmetrical loads on it I never saw unusual flexing or distorted level of the bucket. Most of my 180 tractor hours were grapple use and I often lifted the rear of the tractor while digging out stumps etc. The cracks did extend over the course of a year but not nearly as badly as yours did. I wonder why 1) your cracking is so severe and 2) how that could lead to not just more flexing but a fixed 1.75 inch distortion.

As a general point, tractor FELs are not nearly as strong as bulldozer blades and using them do do more than simply lift dirt/sand etc could potentially twist the arms so they are slightly out of alignment. Either lifting an asymmetric load or hitting an obstacle off center when "bulldozing" could potentially damage the long arms of a tractor FEL. These things are not reported often so I'm not saying that the FELs are weak just that by design they are more vulnerable than we'd like to believe.

Has your dealer looked at the loader? Is the bucket itself straight?

 

[Gittyup]

I'm not convinced that "not sitting level" is a result of the torque tube cracking. To my knowledge no one else has reported this particular problem as a manifestation of the cracking issue. On the other hand, there are numerous reports of loaders that don't sit level on other tractors (check out posts on the Kubota B3030 from a year or so ago, other tractor brands involved too) where there has not been any cracking issue. I think I recall that lack of level has been reported on brand new tractors too.

Your FEL use sounds minimal and certainly not severe duty. I used my cracked KL120 quite aggressively with a grapple and despite putting heavy and sometimes asymmetrical loads on it I never saw unusual flexing or distorted level of the bucket. Most of my 180 tractor hours were grapple use and I often lifted the rear of the tractor while digging out stumps etc. The cracks did extend over the course of a year but not nearly as badly as yours did. I wonder why 1) your cracking is so severe and 2) how that could lead to not just more flexing but a fixed 1.75 inch distortion.

As a general point, tractor FELs are not nearly as strong as bulldozer blades and using them do do more than simply lift dirt/sand etc could potentially twist the arms so they are slightly out of alignment. Either lifting an asymmetric load or hitting an obstacle off center when "bulldozing" could potentially damage the long arms of a tractor FEL. These things are not reported often so I'm not saying that the FELs are weak just that by design they are more vulnerable than we'd like to believe.

Has your dealer looked at the loader? Is the bucket itself straight?

I was so aware of the cracking issue that I checked for cracks after every use. The loader became unlevel EXACTLY coincident with the cracks. Further, the CK25 is something like 1000 lbs or so heavier than the CK20. Yet, the 25's loader arms are marginally, if at all, any heavier duty than the 20. This added weight puts more force on all components, and therefore generate considerably higher forces on the loader. And you can't carry or put more force into the loader than the hydraulics and weight of your tractor permit. The bigger CK25 provides both more weight and more hydraulic capacity than the CK20. Some "non Kioti guys" have long maintained that the tractor is too heavy/powerful for the loader. They are right.

Further, I don't understand any reasoning where one would think that a twist of the loader at the arms wouldn't cause it to be unlevel. A variation in level, left to right, would happen quite often under such a circumstance. I can see it happening live, right before me on my Ck25. Sure, there are many reasons for a loader to be unlevel, but not in this case. It's also no coincidence that when I put even the slightest pressure on one side of the loader that it twists quite easily. Now some twist or "give" is expected, but not as much as I'm seeing. This loader is just plain poor design. It's time to stop making excuses for it.

 

[IslandTractor]

No one is making excuses for the loader but the design flaw is just with the torque tube. The design otherwise is pretty much standard as is the construction quality.

As you point out, loaders do normally twist a bit with asymmetric loads but then they straighten out when the load is released. Yours appears to have become permanently out of balance. Do the cracks still have flush edges or is the loader so twisted that the torque tube itself is now unable to come back to it's normal unloaded level state? If the crack edges still are closely approximated to each other when not loaded doesn't that argue that the lack of level is due to something other than the torque tube flexibility? If the torque tube can return to normal after loading why don't the FEL arms?

You are correct that the weight difference with the CK25/CK30 could be a factor but the loader is not really that much undersized for that tractor. There are not many tractors at 25hp-30hp that are as heavy as the CK25 but some close matchs like the Kubota L2800 (2600lbs vs 3000lbs for the CK25) with the LA463 loader has almost exactly the same lift capacity as the KL130.

One would think that modest lift capacity would actually be protective as you are less able to exert extreme forces. Where the heavy tractor weight could have a bigger impact is if you have the bucket down "bulldozing' and hit an obstruction with one side of the bucket. The greater mass of the CK25 could be a factor with that sort of stress.

Another reason I don't buy the "undersized loader" argument is that cracks also seem to occur with about equal frequency with the CK20/KL120 which weighs about 1000lbs less than the CK25 (maybe that is a slight exaggeration I haven't checked). The CK20 loader is almost as powerful by lift capacity as the KL130 and is pretty close to the top of the heap in comparing 20hp tractor/FEL combos. If you consider a ratio of lift capacity to tractor weight, the CK25/KL130 would be relatively lower and the CK20/KL120 higher than "average" yet the incidence of cracking seems to be about the same.

I appreciate your point that the level problem occurred about the same time that you saw the cracking get worse but I still wonder if they are directly related. Has a dealer looked at it?

 

[laurencen]

One thing I would be interested in is the pivot pin of the arm on the tractor and the pivot of the bucket centers, are they the same, I could see one pushing and hitting a rock, the force could easily compress one arm, this would twist the arms, this was a problem on older thomas skid steers, if you hit hard with the bucket the arm bent, on the bright side crowning a driveway should be easy

 

[twigpig]

For those that don't believe the KL130s have cracked torque tubes here is mine with the dealer Frankenstein repair. I took these pictures about 10 months ago. I haven't checked the cracks lately.

 

[IslandTractor]

For those that don't believe the KL130s have cracked torque tubes here is mine with the dealer Frankenstein repair. I took these pictures about 10 months ago. I haven't checked the cracks lately.

You don't have the same dealer as Highbeam do you. He had the Mother of all Repairs done to his by some amateur bridge builder which is how we all started learning about this issue almost a couple of years ago.

 

[twigpig]

Yep. Same one. To add insult to injury the dealer told me that since I was not the original purchaser I was on my own. He could sell me a set of replacement loader arms he had in stock for the bargain price of $1000. They too were the old style. Not the 130B. I think the dealerships are left holding the bag on this issue too but this dealer isn't even trying to make it right.

 

[Gittyup]

No one is making excuses for the loader but the design flaw is just with the torque tube. The design otherwise is pretty much standard as is the construction quality.

That's a pretty major design flaw. Enough for me to say that it is NOT up to standard construction equipment quality.

The weight of the tractor can easily put much more force on the loader arms than can the hydraulics. Throw in a little momentum of motion and the force caused by weight is further amplified. Comparison to the CK20 has limited value here. From Kioti's website:

CK20
Weight 2125 lbs.
loader lift to full height 1074 lbs.

CK25
Weight 3042
loader lift to full height 1155 lbs.

The CK25 weighs 43% more than the CK20. Yet, the loader capacities differ by less than 10%. It's also interesting that the relief valves are set to much different values. Something close to 2600 psi for the KL120, but only 2000 psi for KL130. Seems like the engineers were trying to limit something a bit more on the KL130.

I agree that the Dealer's are bearing too much of the burden here. But, the real burden is on us poor owners. We are the ones stuck with an under designed loader not up to the capabilities of the tractor. I so wish I had gotten a Woods!

 

[Mastertech]

Pardon my ignorance, but just where do the cracks appear? On the weld joints? In the plate itself?

 

[HODAK]

Ahhh, a trip down memory lane.............. Glad to accomodate you with some pictures. These were taken as I was preparing to upgrade.

 

[kentrodngun]

No offense to anyone but I'm getting a little tired of this subject. Seems to me we should open another Kioti sub-site and call it Kioti Cracks .

I know this is an important issue to many of you but it's been beaten to death. Let's make a 2008 resolution to get back to business and start regular posting again and only revisit this issue when truly new information is available.

There, I've said it, and yes, I know I don't have to read the posts, but I do anyway. OK, so I'm donning my Kevlar and awaiting the incoming.

Happy New Year to you all.

 

[HODAK]

No offense to anyone but I'm getting a little tired of this subject. Seems to me we should open another Kioti sub-site and call it Kioti Cracks .

I know this is an important issue to many of you but it's been beaten to death. Let's make a 2008 resolution to get back to business and start regular posting again and only revisit this issue when truly new information is available.

There, I've said it, and yes, I know I don't have to read the posts, but I do anyway. OK, so I'm donning my Kevlar and awaiting the incoming.

Happy New Year to you all.

My answer with pictures were a benefit, (I hope), to someone who has not followed this topic. Can there be someone out there who doesn't know the story of these loaders? I suppose so......... I just tried to help the guy out so that he will know where to check. And yes, he should be looking.

Happy Tractoring.........