Ethanol Free Gas

   / Ethanol Free Gas #241  
In my mind one problem with ethanol hype is it burns cleaner. I believe that’s true but raising the crops to make it is mostly done by diesel burning tractors and combines, plus all the pesticides, weed killers and fertilizer applied to the fields. Then the energy and pollution that the ethanol plants create. Are we really ahead with the ethanol fuel.
Similar to electric vehicles; sure, there are no emissions out of a non existent tail pipe. All the emissions occur during the mining and processing of the lithium and at the power plant producing the electric "fuel". Of course, the same could be said of petroleum powered vehicles, emissions occur all along the extraction and processing of the fuel. There is no free lunch! Even horses fart!
 
   / Ethanol Free Gas #242  
I am going to say "no" as ethanol has the opposite effect; it cleans any sludge and varnish which might be in the fuel system.
At the same time it's destroying your o-rings, gaskets, and the rubber tips on your float valves.
Yes, ethanol is a good solvent and will clean a dirty system, but it does not destroy modern rubbers formulated to work with ethanol as most rubbers are in post 2000 equipment. Now methanol is a different story, it very corrosive, but it is not mixed with gasoline. Remember, ethanol is what we drink as beer, wine and liquor, a little is good, too much is not!
I have used e10 in all my yard equipment, cars and tractors for many years with no ill effects that I can detect. The yard equipment will sit all winter, wet, and come spring, I will top it off, prime the primer bulbs and a few pulls later, it starts and runs fine.
 
   / Ethanol Free Gas #243  
Yes, ethanol is a good solvent and will clean a dirty system, but it does not destroy modern rubbers formulated to work with ethanol as most rubbers are in post 2000 equipment. Now methanol is a different story, it very corrosive, but it is not mixed with gasoline. Remember, ethanol is what we drink as beer, wine and liquor, a little is good, too much is not!
I have used e10 in all my yard equipment, cars and tractors for many years with no ill effects that I can detect. The yard equipment will sit all winter, wet, and come spring, I will top it off, prime the primer bulbs and a few pulls later, it starts and runs fine.
One "ill effect" that you are experiencing is lower mpg although I guess you don't notice it. Most people don't care about 5% -10% lower fuel mileage but it bugs me. I think it was the ethanol that ruined my fuel hoses on my cheap Chinese brush cutter too. My zero turn Walker mower is a 2000 model and a new replacement is about 15 grand. I prefer to use pure gas in both now, especially since things are going E15 year-round.

I broke my record for mpg for my 35 mile trip home last night with E0. The Mazda mpg computer read 58.5 mpg when I pulled into my driveway. It's been very accurate when hand calculating.
 
   / Ethanol Free Gas #244  
One "ill effect" that you are experiencing is lower mpg although I guess you don't notice it. Most people don't care about 5% -10% lower fuel mileage but it bugs me. I think it was the ethanol that ruined my fuel hoses on my cheap Chinese brush cutter too. My zero turn Walker mower is a 2000 model and a new replacement is about 15 grand. I prefer to use pure gas in both now, especially since things are going E15 year-round.

I broke my record for mpg for my 35 mile trip home last night with E0. The Mazda mpg computer read 58.5 mpg when I pulled into my driveway. It's been very accurate when hand calculating.
Since using non-ethanol fuel in my zero turn, weed eater and SxS I've had no ill effects.
I also use the can fuel for chain saws and leaf blower
 
   / Ethanol Free Gas #245  
There are still stations selling E10, yes. I don't know how long that will last. The station I was at, I believe it was a Pilot, had changed from E10 to E15.
I wonder if it will affect their business, or most people do not know or care? Will it really damage a car? Will it cause any warranty issues? Who knows?

While I have no issues with E10, or E85 for that matter, I don't care for ethanol in general. It's a waste of BTU's to produce it.

A long time ago I read a study that said if all cars ran on natural gas, and we burned corn kernels for home heating, it would be much more efficient, as every time you convert something to something else, you lose BTUs. Natural gas can be burnt in engines with no conversation and corn can be burned in furnaces with no conversion.

It would greatly decrease the need for oil to be converted to gasoline, another high waste of BTUs.

Natural gas is about as clean of a carbon based fuel you can get, and corn kernels are carbon neutral.

Anyhow, it was an interesting study.

One of the first ethanol plants in the country is here in South Bend, IN. It has gone through some changes. At one point, it was shuttered and sold to a scrapper. But another company took it over and has/is invested hundreds of millions to modernize it and make use of everything but the oink in that pig. Carbon dioxide captured for industrial gasses. Animal feed from the waste. A few other things I can't recall off the top of my head.
 
   / Ethanol Free Gas #246  
In Oklahoma, they sell regular gas a most stations, and you have to choose the separate nozzle to get E10.

Local truck stop has ethanol free gas on a dedicated pump.

Thats where I get my gas for all my small engines.
I noticed that when our kid lived in OK.
 
   / Ethanol Free Gas #247  
I've only had problems with ethanol in two pieces if equipment and they both had Briggs and Stratton motors. coincidence????
I doubt it. I had a Briggs that ran on E10 for 29 years that would start first pull every spring with the fuel left in the tank over winter. I couldn't kill that thing!
 
   / Ethanol Free Gas #249  
I doubt it. I had a Briggs that ran on E10 for 29 years that would start first pull every spring with the fuel left in the tank over winter. I couldn't kill that thing!
Them old Briggs engines would run on monkey spit and vinegar

My roommate years ago was cheap..... like miserly cheap

He had a 1960ish push mower with a Briggs engine in it. This engine also fogged mosquitos in the process since it burned quite a bit of oil as well.

He forget to check the oil before mowing one week and locked the engine up.

I pulled the spark plug and started soaking it with hilco lube. It's pb blaster on meth

After soaking it morning and night for a week, I took a wooden dowel and started tapping at the cylinder and got the piston to free up.

I filled it to the line with straight Lucas oil treatment. Cranked the engine over with the spark plug removed several times to lube everything up and to remove the penetrating oil from the top of the cylinder.

Put the spark plug back in. Topped up with gas.

It started on the third crank, quit smoking about halfway through mowing the yard, and ran like a champ
 
   / Ethanol Free Gas #250  
One "ill effect" that you are experiencing is lower mpg although I guess you don't notice it. Most people don't care about 5% -10% lower fuel mileage but it bugs me.
Considering that non-E gas costs 25-30% more than E10 you're still ahead even if your gas mileage is a bit lower. Can't speak for E15, AFAIK it isn't sold around here.
 
   / Ethanol Free Gas #251  
I was traveling to Wichita quite a bit when I noticed it.
Kid lived in Stillwater for 4 years while her husband went to Vet school. It was a looooong drive for us. About 12.5 hrs.

Amazing amount of oil infrastructure in OK.
 
   / Ethanol Free Gas #252  
I've only had problems with ethanol in two pieces if equipment and they both had Briggs and Stratton motors. coincidence????
I dunno. I only have one piece of equipment with a B&S engine and it runs just fine on E10.
 
   / Ethanol Free Gas #254  
Only ever been there once. Man, those oil wells stunk! On par with the pulp mills we used to have here.
Nothing like the steel mills in Gary, IN in the 50s and 60s.

IMG_6777.jpeg

Everything stunk and was orange. Houses, telephone poles, buildings, street signs... all orange. So much smoke they'd have traffic accidents. Blech!
 
   / Ethanol Free Gas #256  
Nothing like the steel mills in Gary, IN in the 50s and 60s.

View attachment 3569437

Everything stunk and was orange. Houses, telephone poles, buildings, street signs... all orange. So much smoke they'd have traffic accidents. Blech!
I remember going through Trail, B.C. in 1958 and looking at the barren land, thinking we'd landed on the moon. If I remember correctly, there was a smelter there.
 
   / Ethanol Free Gas #258  
The truth is none of us really know what we’re talking about in these threads. We say “I ran xxxxxx for my entire life and never had problems”. The truth is that may be valid, it might not be. I’ve personally experienced problems I THINK was because of ethanol fuel but I can’t be sure of it. On three different cases the engine was left with only a 1/3 of a tank or so for months or even a couple of years with ethanol fuel in it. That’s asking for trouble.
 
   / Ethanol Free Gas #259  
Yesterday I hand calculated my first tank of E0 in the Mazda. That included about 1/4 tank of E15 mixed in. I managed almost 43 mpg after traveling about 385 miles on about 9 gallons. I refilled with E0 again and will calculate on next fill. That's about a 3-mpg improvement or almost 10%. Unfortunately, there is an almost 30% difference in price between E0 and E15 and there is no way I'm going to see anywhere near that improvement in mpg. I would have to see about 52mpg to break even.

Even considering all of the above, I plan to run E0 occasionally and will run it in my small engines for the rest of the summer.
 
   / Ethanol Free Gas #260  

Long-awaited guidance, in the form of forthcoming draft proposed regulations, on Section 45Z Clean Production Fuel Credit was released by the Treasury on January 10. The 45Z credit is available for the production of transportation fuels with lifecycle greenhouse gas emissions below certain levels.

Key dates and interim guidance on 45Z credits​

The credit is effective beginning in 2025 and applies to both sustainable aviation fuel and non-SAF transportation fuels. Notice 2025-11 was released and provided initial guidance regarding emissions rates. Industry groups, such as the Renewable Fuels Association, expressed concern regarding the lack of certainty in the guidance.

With the rules not finalized prior to the inauguration next week and a 90-day comment period beginning January 10, certainty regarding the Trump administration’s intentions regarding the Inflation Relief Act that spawned this credit cannot be secure.

On January 15, the USDA released an interim rule to establish guidelines for quantifying, reporting, and verifying emissions associated with biofuel production, in essence defining climate-smart agriculture (CSA) practices required for biofuel producers to reduce their carbon scores and qualify for the 45Z credit. Ideally, these guidelines will be incorporated by Treasury into the final regulations.

The interim rule notably does not include the “bundling” of CSA practices but rather allows a producer to take credit for individual practices such as no-till planting, cover crops, timing of fertilizer application and its efficiency.

Using the USDA feedstock carbon intensity calculator​

The USDA also released a calculator to assist growers in projections of carbon scores. Given that 2025 crop planning is already well under way, it is important to get a handle on the math involved if a producer intends to qualify as a grower for programs with the ethanol producers.

To qualify for 45Z credit, ethanol producers must have a carbon intensity score of less than 50. Currently, most midwestern producers run at a score of about 55. In order to reduce their score, ethanol is relying on a reduction in the carbon score generated from the portion of the product chain within the producer’s control.

Midwestern corn farming averages a score of 29 on its own. Reductions in this score through the CSA practices will result in a 45Z credit to the ethanol producer and what should be premium pricing to cooperating producers.

We ran sample calc for a corn farmer in Bureau County, Illinois, noting that without any sustainability practices the producers CI score is 28.42. With the addition of only the cover crop practice the score falls to 19.88, and with multiple practices we achieved a score of 9.56.

The importance of CSA practices​

Instituting CSA practices can have a big impact on the markets and pricing available for feedstocks and look especially attractive after the last two years of disappointing grain markets. In order to qualify, you’ll need to know your numbers and be willing to share them and your production practices.

Good documentation is key and a willingness to let your local elevator or ethanol processer (if you ship direct) to have insight into your operation and records. Some use the word “audit” when describing their grower programs, but that term is strong.

There is much more to come on 45Z and much to be determined after the new administration takes office. However, the calculators give producers a place to start as they look to premium pricing potential. We will keep you updated as things move forward.
 

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