Engine Went Today on 3204 Series

[GTSRider]

It's been coming for a long time... and today at 760 hrs. engine called it retirement.
It still barely runs enough to move it a few feet....rods are knocking bad, no oil pressure, and sounds like one head gasket blew on starter side
.... need opinions....tractor is in very good condition...had the typical O-rings replaced by dealer in the top of tranny last summer...
mower deck has new belt and idler pulley and a new spindle bearing , and seal... BUT
is it worth it to put a new Kohler crate engine in ?
Anyone been in this situation ?
Oh..one more thing....anyone know the shaft on the CH 20 engine....
is it 3" by 1/18 ?
I called Kohler, and they said the engine in the 3204 series was obsolete in 2011, so they won't sell me one.
But there must be a Command engine that will fit.
All comments appreciated.
Pete Hudson Valley NY

 

[Gary Fowler]

Many times you can find good used engines for lawnmowers for less than $500. Or find a good engine with a blown transmission and swap out and have some spare parts for your mower. I think I would swap it out if I could find one that would fit for $500 or less. ANY more than that I don't think it would be worth it.

 

[Gary Fowler]

Oh, if the transaxles are not perfect then it isn't worth the effort as they would cost as much as a new mower to replace.

 

[wolftree]

Home - Small Engine Warehouse

 

[scoutcub]

Wow that's an early retirement for a Kohler Command engine......the cub 3000 series had multiple Kohler engines in them, I don't see any reason why you can't swap in a different Kohler motor. As others have said, find a low hour machine with bad tranny, or just order new from small engine warehouse.....always check eBay as well.....

 

[GTSRider]

Thanks...I'm not giving up on tractor just yet...going to see how the numbers work out.
I'd rather go with new engine ...afraid of getting another formally abused engine.

 

[GTSRider]

Does anyone know of a formal, or informal cross reference guide to matching old Kohler Command engines with new ?
Pete

 

[rcbe]

Pete - don't think I've ever seen such a cross-ref... but, kohler does keep a good set of documents for each of their engine models on their website, including dimensions, parts lists, etc... and as you run across possible substitute engine candidates, wouldn't take too long to d/l the detail for you to make a comparison - all you need are the engine p/n details off it's ID plate...?

 

[RandyT]

The best way to match up a new Kohler is check the crankshaft size of the old engine, and find engines with that size crank. Most likely 1 1/8 or 1 7/16. Then find if you also need some sort of drive from the flywheel end. Like a stub shaft or drive shaft adapter. Does the old engine have fuel pump, then make sure the new engine has fuel pump. Find an engine with those features, with your crankshaft size and about everything else can be adapted.

Panel or basic engines with the throttle and key switch on the engine can be converted to remove start and throttle. If the crankshaft is too long, it can be shortened. If somebody wants to do some engineering, you can about fit any engine in anything.

You may be able to even install one of the new EFI engines in your mower.

 

[Jack Vines]

Wow, only 760 hours - I'd expect any Kohler, with regular maintenance, to wear out the transaxle and driveline. I've got 12hp and 16hp Kohler singles with way more hours than that which still run strong and don't make noise. The Kohler 7hp on my Troybilt is more than 40 years old; same story. Usually all they ask is fresh oil in the spring.

The real champion is my 40+ year-old Briggs & Stratton with more than 2000 hours and it still starts immediately and runs strong.

jack vines

 

[Kernopelli]

If you go to Kohler Engines: Owners and Service Manuals: Manuals and Maintenance you can find your engine and spec number and it will tell you the crank diameter and length. Kohler has a ton of crossover from engine to engine in the CH line. Any other engine from a Ch18-22/23- CH 620-670/680 with the same crank dimensions will be a direct bolt in with same color coded wiring.

I replaced my John Deere CH20 ( $1800+) with a CH670 from a Cub Cadet. I watched and watched Ebay and OPE Engines started selling single engines from a lot of 20 that they had. I waited and every auction got a little cheaper. I got my crate engine for $600. The one caveat is it was offseason ( late September). The engines that I watched were definitely going for bigger money during mowing season. Here is the thread about my swap http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/...80-kohler-engine-swap-how.html?highlight=f680

 

[GTSRider]

Hi Jack.... yes I agree with you.... I changed oil and filter every 50 hrs with quality Rotella oil.
I am thinking it had a bad oil pump, because it could not keep up oil pressure...lite kept flickering.
What I'd like to know is if anyone has a 20 hp Command engine out of tractor....could they give me crank size,
and mount pattern holes, then I can match with a new Kohler engine. I could take mine down and measure myself...but I don't want to lose,
the ability to move tractor on it's own.
Thanks.
Pete
Hudson Valley NY

 

[rcbe]

is this your engine? (see Pp 6) http://kohlerengines.com/onlinecatalog/pdf/sm_24_690_06.pdf

 

[Jack Vines]

FWIW, when I was discussing engine life, a CC parts manager told me, "Better keep those old singles going as long as you can. The newer twins aren't lasting half as long." Anyone confirm or refute this?

jack vines

 

[Kernopelli]

Looks like 1-1/8" x 2-3/4 but I am not 100% on your engine spec number. Go here Kohler Engine Tech Data to verify.

 

[GTSRider]

Engine Spec # is 64631....

 

[Kernopelli]

Finally found what I was looking for.....Kohler Engines: Parts Lookup. Log in as "Guest". Click on Command Pro/ CH/CV17- 25.Click on CH20. Find you engine ( CH20 64631) and click on the part you want ( crankshaft), then click again on the upper right on the crankshaft's part number. A window will open and it shows your shaft is 1 1/8"X 2.79". In that same window, on the bottom left it says "Where used"...click on that and it will tell you every other CH18- CH 745 engine that crank was used in ( 104 different engines) Any of these engines will replace yours. They all will bolt in. You may have to cut Your Cub wire harness and splice it to the new engine but they are all color coded the same where they come out of the block. I had to do some minor drilling for my exhaust shield but that was as complicated as it got.

If by chance your Cub is like my Deere, it doesn't even use the crankshaft to drive the pulleys/pumps etc. My drive was off the optional PTO that bolts to the flywheel. All Kohler flywheels are drilled and tapped for the front PTO. When I figured this out, I realized I could take the front PTO off the Deere engine and put it on ANY engine from that family group....that REALLY opened the door. I had probably 1000 choices.

If your Cub uses the crankshaft as the drive, you still have 104 engines to choose from that will bolt right in. That makes price shopping much easier.

 

[GTSRider]

Hey Darryl...THANKS !
You made my Day !
I will look up a new engine for this old girl....
Pete
Hudson Valley NY

 

[GTSRider]

Hey Darryl.... I can't get into the site...but I just wanted to confirm that it does say 1 1/8 x 2.79 for the CH20 64631.
Best I can measure while engine is in tractor, ( as on Cub Cadet PTO does run off front of shaft with 2 pulleys ) is that that seems to be correct.
Thanks again or your help.
Pete

 

[Kernopelli]

I'll repost the link. Kohler Engines: Parts Lookup To the left of "username" it says "Guest", click on that to enter the site ( you have to mark "I Agree" on the user statement as well).

Sounds like you are set up similar to my Deere. Here is what my flywheel PTO looks like Kohler Command 18 20 CH18 CH20 Crankshaft Extension PTO Drive Shaft 24 144 22 S | eBay but there may be more than 1 style.