Engine Overhaul Kama 554

[IH3444]

The reality show could be called.

The Man I Wish Was My Brother

 

[3RRL]

lol, those ARE my clean clothes!
No really, it's always so dirty and greasy even clean clothes would look like that in about 5 minutes.

I'm leaning more and more towards leaving the pistons in and not balancing them.
Of course I still don't have the bottom end opened up yet. I hope I haven't let anybody down if I make that decision. But man, there is a lot of work removing just that front timing gear cover and housing. I'm not looking forward to remove the head at all. I'm still confident that the scoring on the old crank journal is the reason for loss of oil pressure. That's why I'm replacing it. Now, with a new pump and crank and new bearings, the bottom end should be good.

Leaving for work today, so I won't be posting until Wednesday.
See you guys later.

 

[3RRL]

Just saw your post IH3444,
You are very kind....
And thank you for all the help via your posts on this thread plus you personal messages.
Rob-

 

[dcyrilc]

lol, those ARE my clean clothes!
No really, it's always so dirty and greasy even clean clothes would look like that in about 5 minutes.

I'm leaning more and more towards leaving the pistons in and not balancing them.
Of course I still don't have the bottom end opened up yet. I hope I haven't let anybody down if I make that decision. But man, there is a lot of work removing just that front timing gear cover and housing. I'm not looking forward to remove the head at all. I'm still confident that the scoring on the old crank journal is the reason for loss of oil pressure. That's why I'm replacing it. Now, with a new pump and crank and new bearings, the bottom end should be good.

Leaving for work today, so I won't be posting until Wednesday.
See you guys later.

I think I speak for everyone, when I say that you won't be letting us down. Your doing a great job. Keep it up.

I'm looking forward to the day when the Kama's running again, and we get to hear more about all the great things you do with it!

 

[3RRL]

Thanks Cyril,
I appreciate that.
Before I leave today, I will try to get the bottom off. I'm leaving the oil pan on since all the bolts holding the engine and what they call "main oil housing" are separate from the pan. I need to get that off to get to the journal caps. But like I said, I will look at if it is possible to remove the pistons safely without damage. But more important, that I can install them safely. If I don't feel confident about it, then I'll leave them in.

 

[dcyrilc]

Thanks Cyril,
I appreciate that.
Before I leave today, I will try to get the bottom off. I'm leaving the oil pan on since all the bolts holding the engine and what they call "main oil housing" are separate from the pan. I need to get that off to get to the journal caps. But like I said, I will look at if it is possible to remove the pistons safely without damage. But more important, that I can install them safely. If I don't feel confident about it, then I'll leave them in.

That sounds like a solid plan.

 

[Diamondpilot]

I think its unnecessary to balance them on a engine that does not even turn 3,000rpm. You will not disappoint me Rob.

Chris

 

[Willl]

the first thing I did was mark all the gears that would be coming off.

Curious as why you didn't use the original timing marks ?

 

[SPIKER]

Rob:
I'm glad I have not had to go that far yet into my JM284... I have to do the clutch very soon as I noticed when snow plowing it is getting even more weak. I think it may have cracked and or damaged spring washer... It happened a while back when my back was messed up and my brother was using it so I don't know exactly WHAT happened ya I know never loan out the tractor... I have a clutch, that I ordered when I ordered the tractor, though so far none of the parts I ordered have fit MY tractor. I think I got someones spare parts order and they got mine???

Mark M

 

[dfkrug]

After taking the cover off, the first thing I did was mark all the gears that would be coming off.
Maybe you can see the markings in the close ups? That way, I can line up the meshing teeth exactly the same as when they came off.

WILLL beat me to it. Weren't we just talking about the timing marks
on the gears? Or was that the Yanmar thread? I can see the factory
marks very clearly. I am glad Kama is doing it like the other Diesels.

You DO have to rotate the engine a few times, but miraculously that
little 'A' on the lower tooth will line up with the 2 'A's on the middle tooth.
Why didn't you use them?

 

[3RRL]

Regarding the timing marks:
I saw the lettering on all 4 gears. I rotated the crank a few times and the large gears are exactly twice the diametrical pitch as the small crank gear...so their relationship will never change. However, If you look (or if you can see it) the Idler gear was not placed correctly. That is, the corresponding AA and DD on the Idler gear did not line up to AA and DD on the fuel injector pump and cam shaft gear.

Not wanting to disrupt the gearing, I marked tooth for tooth as a precaution.
What I plan to do then, is set all the gears exactly as I marked them. Then if I want, I can remove the Idler gear and set the respective markings ... line them up to the fuel injector pump and cam gears using the AA and DD like they are supposed to be. But when you think about it, all that idler gear does is transmit rotation to the other gears from the crank gear. Being 2:1 , their respective alignment would remain constant. So in fact, it doesn't matter how the idler gear is installed, as long as the crankshaft, injector pump and cam shaft gear are in the correct position relative to each other. And I think that is exactly what they did on this engine.
Does that make sense now?

 

[IH3444]

I agree with not balancing the rods, or pistons. Just get her back together. I would like you to inspect the old oil pump for wear.

 

[dcyrilc]

Regarding the timing marks:
I saw the lettering on all 4 gears. I rotated the crank a few times and the large gears are exactly twice the diametrical pitch as the small crank gear...so their relationship will never change. However, If you look (or if you can see it) the Idler gear was not placed correctly. That is, the corresponding AA and DD on the Idler gear did not line up to AA and DD on the fuel injector pump and cam shaft gear.

Not wanting to disrupt the gearing, I marked tooth for tooth as a precaution.
What I plan to do then, is set all the gears exactly as I marked them. Then if I want, I can remove the Idler gear and set the respective markings ... line them up to the fuel injector pump and cam gears using the AA and DD like they are supposed to be. But when you think about it, all that idler gear does is transmit rotation to the other gears from the crank gear. Being 2:1 , their respective alignment would remain constant. So in fact, it doesn't matter how the idler gear is installed, as long as the crankshaft, injector pump and cam shaft gear are in the correct position relative to each other. And I think that is exactly what they did on this engine.
Does that make sense now?

Probably a smart move on your part. IMHO. As far as changing the idler gear, if it's not broke... don't fix it. That's my 2 cents worth. Nothing is worse than trying to correct something which looks wrong, but works, just to have it not work right when you get done. Been there... done that... more than once.

 

[3RRL]

I agree with not balancing the rods, or pistons. Just get her back together. I would like you to inspect the old oil pump for wear.

Yeah, I found out the journal cast webs in the block in fact do prevent me from removing the pistons out from the bottom. So the head is remaining on and I will not balance the pistons and rods after all. (Save that for another day) I'll post photos of that when I get home.
Also, I posted a photo earlier of the new oil pump I bought. I got it to make sure that was not going to be a problem in the future. I figured it was cheap insurance.

I agree that marking the gears like I did can't hurt.

 

[dcyrilc]

Yeah, I found out the journal cast webs in the block in fact do prevent me from removing the pistons out from the bottom. So the head is remaining on and I will not balance the pistons and rods after all. (Save that for another day) I'll post photos of that when I get home.
Also, I posted a photo earlier of the new oil pump I bought. I got it to make sure that was not going to be a problem in the future. I figured it was cheap insurance.

I agree that marking the gears like I did can't hurt.

The biggest thing at this point should be just remembering to put pieces of rubber hoses over the bolts for the rod caps. I forgot to do that once and damaged my crank. Granted you have a new one, but it can't hurt to get them on early so you dont forget to do it before putting the crank in.

 

[3RRL]

The biggest thing at this point should be just remembering to put pieces of rubber hoses over the bolts for the rod caps. I forgot to do that once and damaged my crank. Granted you have a new one, but it can't hurt to get them on early so you dont forget to do it before putting the crank in.

Yes, I got this information several times.
Even from mechanic buddy in Montana. However, if I recall correctly, the bolts on this engine come from the cap half and go into the connecting rod and mains do the same. What I did last time is seat the connecting rod half (with bearing in) onto the crank journal. Then I placed the cap (with bearing in) onto the other side of the journal. While holding the two together, I put the bolts in. The bolts, then, never had the opportunity to touch either the bearing nor journal. The only place they could go was into the threaded hole in the connecting rod half.
Perhaps I'm not getting what you guys are talking about?

 

[MtnViewRanch]

Rob, a lot of rods have studs mounted in the rods and the cap then fits on the end, then secures with nuts. But since you have bolts that thread into the rod, you do not need to worry about this problem.

 

[dcyrilc]

Rob, a lot of rods have studs mounted in the rods and the cap then fits on the end, then secures with nuts. But since you have bolts that thread into the rod, you do not need to worry about this problem.

Yup, that's exactly what I would have expected to see. Guess the manufacturer took the problem out of the equation. Definately should make it easier.

 

[3RRL]

OK, that makes sense then, thanks for explanation.
You can see how much experience I have with "other" connecting rod types.

When I was at the shop, I had to make an order from MacMaster Carr, so I ordered some of the rubber and paper gasket material I need. They come in large sheets so I can make my own for the front timing gear housing and cover, and also for the main oil sump. I got 1/64" thick high pressure general purpose for that, and 1/32" thick rubber for a new oil pan gasket. I also got several packages of "Stat-O-Seals" which are to replace all those steel washers with molded rubber inside them. I think I got enough of every size to change all the banjo bolt washers on the entire tractor.

What kind of gasket sealer should I use for between the main oil sump and engine, and the timing gear cover and housing?
The Shellac type or that sticky stuff?

Got home late today (instead of yesterday) because I stopped by to see an old friend who is in one of those convalescent homes. He is pretty bad off and we've been best friends for over 52 years! Tomorrow I will start taking off the caps to remove the crankshaft. I'll snap some more photos for my little documentary.
Rob-

 

[SPYDERLK]

What kind of gasket sealer should I use for between the main oil sump and engine, and the timing gear cover and housing?
The Shellac type or that sticky stuff?

Rob-

1st oil and then wipe off the gasket. Then....A thin patina of rtv silicone rubber on one slde and grease or nothing on the other. If you ever take it apart again the silicone will release cleanly leaving the gasket stuck intact on the other side. Reapply rtv for reuse.
larry