Electrical problem might have ended badly

[RobJ]

I'm not sure why you would not run the dehumidifier once the wires were fixed unless there was a problem with it. Connections like this go out all the time...over time, especially the ones outside or in an area like this. I just fix and go on.

??

Rob

 

[SPIKER]

I agree with PR:

and others that small arc will melt a lot of stuff and not trip a properly functioning breaker, not sure if the arc fault breakers will detect this or not, but I believe that this was they basis for their design... also that these breakers are more prone to nuisance tripping over the OLD NON-ARC FAULT breakers but that was why they were made. some ares they are too sensitive for use in such as garages and the like where older AC type drills ect will be used. these types of equipment operate with a certain amount of normal arching inside as the unit runs.

also as far as finding these small burnt areas, they are actually fairly common from what I've noticed...

mark M

 

[DocHeb]

The Inspector will answer PMs, but I don't think he answers electrical questions in the forums spontaneously any longer.

 

[podagrower]

An arc-fault breaker should have prevented this.
A better practice for installing receptacles is to "pig-tail" the wires rather than "daisy-chain". By tying the two or three hot (ungrounded) wires together and taking a pig tail to the receptacle and doing the same thing with the nuetrals (grounded), you allow the load to bypass the receptacles between the load and panel.
For example-- if the dehumidifier is plugged into the last outlet on the circuit (furthest from the panel).
With the wires daisy-chained, the load travels thru each receptacle.
With the wires pig-tailed, the load travels thru the wires, bypassing the receptacles.
I hope I don't confuse anyone too much with this

 

[Inspector507]

Chris I would think that a good question for the inspector. Is he still actively posting?

Mike, I actively read, but rarely post. But I will answer the question that was asked. Yes an Arc-Fault breaker would probably have identified that arc signature and tripped off. Arc-Fault breakers will identify multiple arc signatures. That one sounds like a series arc. They are also designed to trip off with a parallel arc, i.e. hot to neutral or hot to ground.
Starting in 2008, in the areas that adopt the newest version of the NEC, all 120V 15 and 20 amp circuits in a dwelling unit will need to be protected by Arc-Fault breakers or combination devices. I'm sure we will encounter all sorts of problems along the way in doing this, but I feel it will be the best thing to stop residential fies from starting.

 

[MossRoad]

...I'm sure we will encounter all sorts of problems along the way in doing this, but I feel it will be the best thing to stop residential fies from starting.

Yeah. I guess. It might end up being a pain but having seen people that have lost everything or worse to a house fire, well, you know, it is probably worth a little inconvenience.

 

[SnowRidge]

Yeah. I guess. It might end up being a pain but having seen people that have lost everything or worse to a house fire, well, you know, it is probably worth a little inconvenience.

There are additional costs, too. The breakers are several multiples more expensive than standard breakers. I also understand that additional neutrals are required. I have seen estimates that the new requirements will add about $1,500 to the cost of a house.

 

[RobJ]

An arc-fault breaker should have prevented this.
A better practice for installing receptacles is to "pig-tail" the wires rather than "daisy-chain". By tying the two or three hot (ungrounded) wires together and taking a pig tail to the receptacle and doing the same thing with the nuetrals (grounded), you allow the load to bypass the receptacles between the load and panel.
For example-- if the dehumidifier is plugged into the last outlet on the circuit (furthest from the panel).
With the wires daisy-chained, the load travels thru each receptacle.
With the wires pig-tailed, the load travels thru the wires, bypassing the receptacles.
I hope I don't confuse anyone too much with this

I did this on the house I built, mainly because it was easier. I put the pigtails on the receptales while watching tv at home, then wired them up at the house.

 

[hitekcountry]

What's the amperage draw of that dehumidifier?

 

[PineRidge]

Mike, I actively read, but rarely post. But I will answer the question that was asked. Yes an Arc-Fault breaker would probably have identified that arc signature and tripped off. Arc-Fault breakers will identify multiple arc signatures. That one sounds like a series arc. They are also designed to trip off with a parallel arc, i.e. hot to neutral or hot to ground.
Starting in 2008, in the areas that adopt the newest version of the NEC, all 120V 15 and 20 amp circuits in a dwelling unit will need to be protected by Arc-Fault breakers or combination devices. I'm sure we will encounter all sorts of problems along the way in doing this, but I feel it will be the best thing to stop residential fies from starting.

Inspector thanks for the input

 

[MossRoad]

There are additional costs, too. The breakers are several multiples more expensive than standard breakers. I also understand that additional neutrals are required. I have seen estimates that the new requirements will add about $1,500 to the cost of a house.

Yeah, thanks for that tidbit... Just kidding. Each year we are closer to building and each year it costs more.

 

[LBrown59]

1*Plastic doesn't conduct electricity?
2*You can use metal in a house if you want to.

#1 is why I don't do #2

 

[SnowRidge]

Yeah, thanks for that tidbit... Just kidding. Each year we are closer to building and each year it costs more.

We are facing the same issue, including a drive that may be a quarter mile long, plus clearing a 30' easement for the power, and there's no telling yet if they will be in the same place.

 

[MossRoad]

We are facing the same issue, including a drive that may be a quarter mile long, plus clearing a 30' easement for the power, and there's no telling yet if they will be in the same place.

To top it off, if you take house plans to the county building department here, they cannot tell you what your property taxes will be until after the house is completed and assessed at market value. YIKES!!! Makes it hard to plan expenses.

To get back on topic, I have been using these push in connectors a lot lately. I like them. I can make up pig tails to recepticles and such and then just push them in and go. I was never too good with wire nuts.

 

[SnowRidge]

Interesting. I have not run into those before. I like easy. I like cheap, too. If they are both, they have a winner.

 

[PineRidge]

Moss those connectors are interesting. I'm only familiar with the push connections used on the backside of switches and receptacles but I'm sure it's very similar in the way they work.

 

[MossRoad]

Yeah, I bought one box each of two hole, three hole and four hole connectors. I keep a handfull of each in my toolbag. They say they are reusable and there is a hole where you can push a small nail in to release the grip, but I don't like to reuse that kind of stuff. I'm always worried about it being looser the second usage, and then we would be back to the thin wire in the terminal scenario. So if I mess up something, I just clip it off and start over.

I'll tell you where these things come in real handy... you ever get into a box and undo the wire nuts and the wire is too kinked to straighten out to re-nut, and if you clip off the kinked part there isn't enough to pull out of the box to strip and re-nut? As long as you can get the ends parallel to each other and strip the required length, these things work great!

 

[Inspector507]

To get back on topic, I have been using these push in connectors a lot lately. I like them. I can make up pig tails to recepticles and such and then just push them in and go.

David, I like them as well. I have used a different brand but they are real hard to try to remove and reuse. Some people may not like the idea of them because they resemble the "quick-wire" on the back of receptacles and switches. But I will say in 32 years in the trade, I have personally seen less than a dozen "quick-wire" device failures.

 

[VA_Joe]

Ideal used to sell the in-sure connectors rated for #12 stranded. Does anyone know why they discontinued that version of the product? I still have a couple of half jars sitting around.

Joe

 

[Inspector507]

Ideal used to sell the in-sure connectors rated for #12 stranded. Does anyone know why they discontinued that version of the product? I still have a couple of half jars sitting around.

Joe

I'm just guessing, but they may have lost their listing by a nationally recognized testing laboratory. That type of pressure connector has not been very reliable on stranded wire.