Electrical Panel update New house

toolaholic · Mar 22, 2007

I'm a lic. ca. gen contr. Nice neat work . code is flex connectors to the W. H. in Ca for earthquakes. Also any wiring below 7' 6" has to be protected [conduit]
also washer drain needs a trap with stand pipe and vent within 5 ft.
You don't want sewer gas in home!
Congrats on the progress, You both are amazing folks!

KennethBrown · Mar 22, 2007

I'm in the process of building my house. I've hired out the framing, siding, roof, drywall work and a/c. Everything else is mine. I have always helped my dad do shade tree electrical work ie, his shop, his cabin, well pumps, etc so I knew just enough to get me in trouble. SWMBO bought me a couple of books for MY birthday so I would know the right way to wire HER house. Best gift I've ever gotten. I'm pretty proud of mine too.

EDIT: The other pic was WAY too big so I put up a smaller version, wish I had one inbetween.

toolaholic · Mar 23, 2007

Tell Dad ,He's a great teacher. Did the same with My son,We're both in the trades togeather

gemini5362 · Mar 23, 2007

KennethBrown said:
I'm in the process of building my house. I've hired out the framing, siding, roof, drywall work and a/c. Everything else is mine. I have always helped my dad do shade tree electrical work ie, his shop, his cabin, well pumps, etc so I knew just enough to get me in trouble. SWMBO bought me a couple of books for MY birthday so I would know the right way to wire HER house. Best gift I've ever gotten. I'm pretty proud of mine too.

EDIT: The other pic was WAY too big so I put up a smaller version, wish I had one inbetween.

Kenneth that panel looks good. Since you had some books to guide you then you probably did it the way it should be done. The problem I have seen people have with doing their own wireing is the small things. Did you made sure to run the neutral wire to the white screw on your light sockets The other big thing that people tend to disagree about is wire nuts. There is one group that says all you have to do is to put the wires in the nuts, twist the nut and let it make the mechanical connection. There is another group on here that says to take pliers, twist the wires together and make a good mechanical connection then twist on the wire nut and let it be the insulation. I am in the twist the wires together then twist the wire nut on it. I tried letting the wire nut make the connection when I originally replaced the wiring on my house. I had the overhead light in my dining room quit working. I checked out the problem and found that I had evidently not gotten the wire nut tight enough. The wire was arcing inside the wire nut and burnt the wire nut up. After I realized how close I was to burning my house down I went back and took the wire nuts off twisted the wires together and then replaced the wirenuts on every connection in my house. A group of inustrial electricians taught me to take black tape and wrap around the wire nut to help hold it in place so I do that now also. I am sure that you did everything right and I wished I could make my panels look that neat. I am good for functionality but could be better in the neatness department

Farwell · Mar 25, 2007

Gemini,
I have finally reached the point where I have found that twisting the wires together prior to adding the wire nut is the way I will wire from now on. I have found too many loose wires inside of wire nuts, a few times the wires were black from arcing. I strip around 1 1/4 inch of insulation off of the wires, twist the wires together with a pair of pliers and cut the ends square with a pair of angle pliers before adding the wire nut.
I also wish I could wire my panels neatly. Guys I worked with could make an electric panel filled with wires look like a plastic surgeon did the work.
David B

gemini5362 · Mar 25, 2007

Farwell said:
Gemini,
I have finally reached the point where I have found that twisting the wires together prior to adding the wire nut is the way I will wire from now on. I have found too many loose wires inside of wire nuts, a few times the wires were black from arcing. I strip around 1 1/4 inch of insulation off of the wires, twist the wires together with a pair of pliers and cut the ends square with a pair of angle pliers before adding the wire nut.
I also wish I could wire my panels neatly. Guys I worked with could make an electric panel filled with wires look like a plastic surgeon did the work.
David B

Farwell I know what you mean I have a friend that is an alcoholic I almost never see him sober. He can wire a panel in no time flat and every wire looks exactly perfect. I can spend a day on a panel and not have it looks like a kid did it.

gemini5362 · Mar 25, 2007

Farwell said:
Gemini,
I have finally reached the point where I have found that twisting the wires together prior to adding the wire nut is the way I will wire from now on. I have found too many loose wires inside of wire nuts, a few times the wires were black from arcing. I strip around 1 1/4 inch of insulation off of the wires, twist the wires together with a pair of pliers and cut the ends square with a pair of angle pliers before adding the wire nut.
I also wish I could wire my panels neatly. Guys I worked with could make an electric panel filled with wires look like a plastic surgeon did the work.
David B

Farwell I know what you mean I have a friend that is an alcoholic I almost never see him sober. He can wire a panel in no time flat and every wire looks exactly perfect. I can spend a day wiring a panel and it will be electrically correct but it will not look that neat.

mudcat · Mar 26, 2007

I think I might be drunk. I am seeing double!

TwinWillows · Mar 27, 2007

Farwell: I too twist the wires together w/pliers & cut the end off square before putting the wire nut on. I also give each nut a quick wrap of electrical tape when the nut is tight. One last step is to give each switch or receptical a wrap of electrical tape around the sides where the screws are. It's probably overkill but it works for me & so far I've not had any arcing or shorting.

gemini5362 · Mar 27, 2007

mudcat said:
I think I might be drunk. I am seeing double!

I said I had a friend who was an alcoholic not me. I am just fumble fingered and hit the send button twice I guess.

mudcat · Mar 28, 2007

gemini5362 said:
I said I had a friend who was an alcoholic not me. I am just fumble fingered and hit the send button twice I guess.

I know what you said. I read it twice.

Sorry if I offended. Just trying to make a funny.

gemini5362 · Mar 28, 2007

thank you for the apology but I spent a lot of time in the military and then working for them for years after. I am pretty thick skinned you did not offend me but thank you for your reply

KennethBrown · Apr 1, 2007

Gemini- All of the little details are right too, I'm a perfectionist when it comes to my families safety.
Wire nuts are like synthetic vs dino oil. I spend quite a bit of time on various boards seeing the mistakes others make so I don't do the same. One of the boards I frequent is for geniune professionals only, I kinda snuck in. Even with these guys its an arguement about wire nuts. My dad believes in twisting the wires, twist the nuts on, and then a wrap of tape. I look at the package of nuts I'm using and follow whatever directions are on it. All so far have said to just twist the nut on. The only thing that was different that that was 2 cieling fans I just put up today. It said to wrap them in tape after twisting the nut on. I prefer to use the nuts with wings as I can put the pliers on them and get it good and tight. Come to think of it the only wires to give any problems are the can lights. They have stranded wire and it wanted to slip out even when gorilla bear tight. I was using the non wing on them to though. We switched to the wing style and wrapped with tape to be sure.

gemini5362 · Apr 2, 2007

KennethBrown said:
Gemini- All of the little details are right too, I'm a perfectionist when it comes to my families safety.
Wire nuts are like synthetic vs dino oil. I spend quite a bit of time on various boards seeing the mistakes others make so I don't do the same. One of the boards I frequent is for geniune professionals only, I kinda snuck in. Even with these guys its an arguement about wire nuts. My dad believes in twisting the wires, twist the nuts on, and then a wrap of tape. I look at the package of nuts I'm using and follow whatever directions are on it. All so far have said to just twist the nut on. The only thing that was different that that was 2 cieling fans I just put up today. It said to wrap them in tape after twisting the nut on. I prefer to use the nuts with wings as I can put the pliers on them and get it good and tight. Come to think of it the only wires to give any problems are the can lights. They have stranded wire and it wanted to slip out even when gorilla bear tight. I was using the non wing on them to though. We switched to the wing style and wrapped with tape to be sure.

Let me point out that if you use the wrong kind of oil in your car it might cause you to have to replace an engine. If you have a connection come apart and arc it might burn your house down with you or your family in it. I realize you were trying to say that everyone has favorites they defend but You said you are a perfectionalist when it comes to your families safety.

I realize there are lots of arguements about wire nuts. Let me repeat a really good arguement about wire nuts. I used to just twist the wire nuts and came very close to burning my house down. When I found the problem the wire nuts had litterally burned off and was just a small pile of ashes below the connection. I started twisting the wires and putting on the wire nuts and have not had a problem since. I know that the arguement is that you use pliers and twist them tight. I thought that I had twisted them tight also. I have heard a lot of arguements on both sides. The one thing I have not heard is that it is a safety hazard to twist the wires first and then put on the wire nuts. The comments about twisting wires are of the you do not really need to do this. They do not say it is unsafe. It takes more time to twist the wires but you dont have to worry about the connection that way. If your dad twists wires and uses wire nuts then tapes them it sounds to me like he has the right idea and probably has never had any bad connections.

Highbeam · Apr 3, 2007

Maybe it's safer if you just don't do any wiring and hire an electrician to do all of your work. Oh wait, he'll just put the wire nuts on and tighten them just like the directions say. Oh wait, every other connection in your home (unless you did it) were all done without first twisting the wires. You'd better rip off all your sheetrock and double check.

The sky is falling.

A good tight wire nut is plenty sufficient and in accordance with the instructions of the wire nut manufacturer. If one of your nutted connections come apart then I suggest you consider that an installation mistake was made.

Inspector507 · Apr 3, 2007

Hmm.........I just checked one of the largest manufacturers of wirenuts, who by the way has a registered trade mark on the wirenut name. 9 out of 12 styles on their website said no pre-twisting required. So not twisting wires could also be "right".

woodlot · Apr 4, 2007

Actually there can be a problem. As stated before the manuf. will define the proper method to use their nuts. Another item stated on the box will be wire capacities. These capacities will be contingent on using the defined installation procedures. So if you pretwist, in most all cases, you will not have wire capacity charts to go by, and risk "overstuffing" your nuts. Don't even get me started on soldering your nuts...............a doctor once told me excess heat on your nuts can reduce your chance of having children......wait.....thats a diffrent topic altogether.

Highbeam · Apr 4, 2007

Good point woodlot, the wirenuts that I own have a labeled number of conductors that can be connected within the wirenut. If you have a big booger of solder in there or you twist the wires into a knot then you may have made that wirenut too small.

I am not ready to agree that following anything other than the wirenut manufacturer's instructions is acceptable. That includes pretwisting.

I was hoping that Inspector507 was perhaps wise to whether or not an inspection has been failed for either pretwisting or not pretwisting the wires.

Credentials are fairly meaningless here, more than a few electricians have done it the "wrong" way all their lives. This is a specific issue and perhaps the NEC has a specific answer.

mudcat · Apr 4, 2007

Most instructions I have read say to twist the nut onto the wire until there are atleast two visible twists in the insulation.

Inspector507 · Apr 4, 2007

Highbeam said:
I was hoping that Inspector507 was perhaps wise to whether or not an inspection has been failed for either pretwisting or not pretwisting the wires.

Since I only have knowledge and control over what happens in my building department, I can say that either way would be approved.
The manufacturer said