Electrical Panel update New house

[mudcat]

I said I had a friend who was an alcoholic not me. I am just fumble fingered and hit the send button twice I guess.

I know what you said. I read it twice. Sorry if I offended. Just trying to make a funny.

 

[gemini5362]

thank you for the apology but I spent a lot of time in the military and then working for them for years after. I am pretty thick skinned you did not offend me but thank you for your reply

 

[KennethBrown]

Gemini- All of the little details are right too, I'm a perfectionist when it comes to my families safety.
Wire nuts are like synthetic vs dino oil. I spend quite a bit of time on various boards seeing the mistakes others make so I don't do the same. One of the boards I frequent is for geniune professionals only, I kinda snuck in. Even with these guys its an arguement about wire nuts. My dad believes in twisting the wires, twist the nuts on, and then a wrap of tape. I look at the package of nuts I'm using and follow whatever directions are on it. All so far have said to just twist the nut on. The only thing that was different that that was 2 cieling fans I just put up today. It said to wrap them in tape after twisting the nut on. I prefer to use the nuts with wings as I can put the pliers on them and get it good and tight. Come to think of it the only wires to give any problems are the can lights. They have stranded wire and it wanted to slip out even when gorilla bear tight. I was using the non wing on them to though. We switched to the wing style and wrapped with tape to be sure.

 

[gemini5362]

Gemini- All of the little details are right too, I'm a perfectionist when it comes to my families safety.
Wire nuts are like synthetic vs dino oil. I spend quite a bit of time on various boards seeing the mistakes others make so I don't do the same. One of the boards I frequent is for geniune professionals only, I kinda snuck in. Even with these guys its an arguement about wire nuts. My dad believes in twisting the wires, twist the nuts on, and then a wrap of tape. I look at the package of nuts I'm using and follow whatever directions are on it. All so far have said to just twist the nut on. The only thing that was different that that was 2 cieling fans I just put up today. It said to wrap them in tape after twisting the nut on. I prefer to use the nuts with wings as I can put the pliers on them and get it good and tight. Come to think of it the only wires to give any problems are the can lights. They have stranded wire and it wanted to slip out even when gorilla bear tight. I was using the non wing on them to though. We switched to the wing style and wrapped with tape to be sure.

Let me point out that if you use the wrong kind of oil in your car it might cause you to have to replace an engine. If you have a connection come apart and arc it might burn your house down with you or your family in it. I realize you were trying to say that everyone has favorites they defend but You said you are a perfectionalist when it comes to your families safety.

I realize there are lots of arguements about wire nuts. Let me repeat a really good arguement about wire nuts. I used to just twist the wire nuts and came very close to burning my house down. When I found the problem the wire nuts had litterally burned off and was just a small pile of ashes below the connection. I started twisting the wires and putting on the wire nuts and have not had a problem since. I know that the arguement is that you use pliers and twist them tight. I thought that I had twisted them tight also. I have heard a lot of arguements on both sides. The one thing I have not heard is that it is a safety hazard to twist the wires first and then put on the wire nuts. The comments about twisting wires are of the you do not really need to do this. They do not say it is unsafe. It takes more time to twist the wires but you dont have to worry about the connection that way. If your dad twists wires and uses wire nuts then tapes them it sounds to me like he has the right idea and probably has never had any bad connections.

 

[Highbeam]

Maybe it's safer if you just don't do any wiring and hire an electrician to do all of your work. Oh wait, he'll just put the wire nuts on and tighten them just like the directions say. Oh wait, every other connection in your home (unless you did it) were all done without first twisting the wires. You'd better rip off all your sheetrock and double check.

The sky is falling.

A good tight wire nut is plenty sufficient and in accordance with the instructions of the wire nut manufacturer. If one of your nutted connections come apart then I suggest you consider that an installation mistake was made.

 

[Inspector507]

Hmm.........I just checked one of the largest manufacturers of wirenuts, who by the way has a registered trade mark on the wirenut name. 9 out of 12 styles on their website said no pre-twisting required. So not twisting wires could also be "right".

 

[woodlot]

Actually there can be a problem. As stated before the manuf. will define the proper method to use their nuts. Another item stated on the box will be wire capacities. These capacities will be contingent on using the defined installation procedures. So if you pretwist, in most all cases, you will not have wire capacity charts to go by, and risk "overstuffing" your nuts. Don't even get me started on soldering your nuts...............a doctor once told me excess heat on your nuts can reduce your chance of having children......wait.....thats a diffrent topic altogether.

 

[Highbeam]

Good point woodlot, the wirenuts that I own have a labeled number of conductors that can be connected within the wirenut. If you have a big booger of solder in there or you twist the wires into a knot then you may have made that wirenut too small.

I am not ready to agree that following anything other than the wirenut manufacturer's instructions is acceptable. That includes pretwisting.

I was hoping that Inspector507 was perhaps wise to whether or not an inspection has been failed for either pretwisting or not pretwisting the wires.

Credentials are fairly meaningless here, more than a few electricians have done it the "wrong" way all their lives. This is a specific issue and perhaps the NEC has a specific answer.

 

[mudcat]

Most instructions I have read say to twist the nut onto the wire until there are atleast two visible twists in the insulation.

 

[Inspector507]

I was hoping that Inspector507 was perhaps wise to whether or not an inspection has been failed for either pretwisting or not pretwisting the wires.

Since I only have knowledge and control over what happens in my building department, I can say that either way would be approved.
The manufacturer said

no pre-twisting required

but did NOT say DO NOT PRE-TWIST, so either way is good here.