brain55
Veteran Member
That's for sure. I only fire up my compressor for airing tires and blowing out radiators any more. If my Snap-On cordless impact won't do it, I typically have to get out the 3/4" air impact.
Brian
Electric VS Air
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That's for sure. I only fire up my compressor for airing tires and blowing out radiators any more. If my Snap-On cordless impact won't do it, I typically have to get out the 3/4" air impact.
Brian
ericher69
Veteran Member
I was merely stating the "not so obvious" about air tool CFM ratings method. My home shop is just that. Not using air tools all day everyday. I do know that my Iron Horse 6.5hp 230V 60 gallon V-Twin compressor cannot keep up with the cabinet sandblaster if I am on the trigger steady. It will progressively lose the battle till the pressure drops below 80psi creating a lot of moisture.
The 1/2" Ingersoll impact (can't remember model) when working on a large nut (CV axle nut) or a tractor implement nut will make the compressor run quite a bit.
I've had smaller 20 gallon 2.5hp compressors in the past and thought they where doing the job but in reality they would run continuously at times.
Scooby074
Super Member
Throw a pneumatic sander on the average home shop compressor and prepare to sand 1 minute and wait for 5, lol. (been there, done that, bought a new compressor as a result!)
I have close to 20CFM @90PSI available delivered (key) and even with that my compressor runs all the time and can barely keep up with my Dynabrade 6" pneumatic rated at 16CFM continuous. I bet its closer to 18 in practice.
One thing you have to watch is manufacturers ratings. They are notorious for under rating air consumption. When you see something like 6CFM on a sander, thats like an instantaneous rating, in practice, during use, you can more than double that.
For something like an impact that will see intense use for a few seconds or minutes while putting on a tire, for example, you can get away with manufacturers stated air consumption because the compressor has a chance to rebuild, but something like a paint gun, sander, grinder, drill etc. etc. that sees continuous use for minutes at a time can overload small compressors without issue.
The most important thing with an intermittent tool like an airgun is hose diameter. You need to get VOLUME of air at pressure to the gun to get the most out of it. Large hoses help a lot there.
When we'd have to get a 1" or bigger gun out, we'd break out an approx 100 gallon wheeled "surge" tank to take to the machine being worked on. This was filled from our normal 3/8" air hose hose, but had a large diameter hose coming off it, 3/4" or so that was used to run the air hog large air guns. It makes a huge difference. Even a 3/4" gun was noticeably improved running off the portable tank . @90PSI a 3/8 hose can only flow about 40CFM @100' (typical length, 50' air hose with associated plumbing), not taking into consideration the hose ends and other restrictions which can really restrict flow. Bare in mind this was a professional shop, with a large compressor. Even with the large compressor and surge tank, you could only hit things with the big guns for a few minutes, then youd drain the surge and have to wait for it to refill.
Even 20 CFM is small if youre using air hogs. I wish I had closer to 40. You cant have too much air.
I have close to 20CFM @90PSI available delivered (key) and even with that my compressor runs all the time and can barely keep up with my Dynabrade 6" pneumatic rated at 16CFM continuous. I bet its closer to 18 in practice.
One thing you have to watch is manufacturers ratings. They are notorious for under rating air consumption. When you see something like 6CFM on a sander, thats like an instantaneous rating, in practice, during use, you can more than double that.
For something like an impact that will see intense use for a few seconds or minutes while putting on a tire, for example, you can get away with manufacturers stated air consumption because the compressor has a chance to rebuild, but something like a paint gun, sander, grinder, drill etc. etc. that sees continuous use for minutes at a time can overload small compressors without issue.
The most important thing with an intermittent tool like an airgun is hose diameter. You need to get VOLUME of air at pressure to the gun to get the most out of it. Large hoses help a lot there.
When we'd have to get a 1" or bigger gun out, we'd break out an approx 100 gallon wheeled "surge" tank to take to the machine being worked on. This was filled from our normal 3/8" air hose hose, but had a large diameter hose coming off it, 3/4" or so that was used to run the air hog large air guns. It makes a huge difference. Even a 3/4" gun was noticeably improved running off the portable tank . @90PSI a 3/8 hose can only flow about 40CFM @100' (typical length, 50' air hose with associated plumbing), not taking into consideration the hose ends and other restrictions which can really restrict flow. Bare in mind this was a professional shop, with a large compressor. Even with the large compressor and surge tank, you could only hit things with the big guns for a few minutes, then youd drain the surge and have to wait for it to refill.
Even 20 CFM is small if youre using air hogs. I wish I had closer to 40. You cant have too much air.
Shield Arc
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Tor Arne
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The most bad *** "impact wrench" I've seen was at a truck repair shop I worked.
It was practically a trolley with a large electric motor with flywheel and Klutch and 1 inch square to mount sockets. Whole thing could be adjusted in height so one could loosen unreasonable stuborn wheel bolts. Heck that thing delivered a punch that one almost knocked the shoulders out of joint
It was practically a trolley with a large electric motor with flywheel and Klutch and 1 inch square to mount sockets. Whole thing could be adjusted in height so one could loosen unreasonable stuborn wheel bolts. Heck that thing delivered a punch that one almost knocked the shoulders out of joint
Scooby074
Super Member
I wouldnt buy an Emax for $5k.
Chinese pump. Emax ( Eaton Compressors) has a bit of a crappy reputation too. Lots of lawsuits and threats. Google "Eaton Compressors and China".
ruffdog
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I have heard that the soft pliable air hoses that are popular now do NOT work good with impacts. I have not tried one myself though.
A good size pneumatic grinder, or buffer, can tax a 10 HP commercial compressor. As a result of running the compressor hard, they tend to make a lot of water, further adding to the expense of using one without problems.
If you buy a good quality, properly sized electric grinder, you can run it as much, and as hard, as you want. As well as, they tend to be much quieter, and don't get so freezing cold that you can't hold on to it, like air grinders can.
Smaller air grinders, die grinders, and sanders need to be paired with a compressor that can supply the volume needed for your amount of use, or they can also cause your compressor to produce copious amounts of condensed water in your system. In which case, electric versions are also available options.
Most other air tools are fine, because they are generally used intermittently enough, they don't use tremendous amount of air.
If you buy a good quality, properly sized electric grinder, you can run it as much, and as hard, as you want. As well as, they tend to be much quieter, and don't get so freezing cold that you can't hold on to it, like air grinders can.
Smaller air grinders, die grinders, and sanders need to be paired with a compressor that can supply the volume needed for your amount of use, or they can also cause your compressor to produce copious amounts of condensed water in your system. In which case, electric versions are also available options.
Most other air tools are fine, because they are generally used intermittently enough, they don't use tremendous amount of air.
Bird
Rest in Peace
I don't have (or want) one of those gasoline or electric powered leaf blowers, so I just use my air-compressor with a 4' air gun to clear off the driveway and sidewalk after mowing, to "sweep" out the garage, to blow the leaves out of the rain gutters. And those are the times that my compressor produces those "copious amounts of condensed water.":laughing:
dstig1
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Then you've never had to take off the crank bolt from even a weenie little Honda 4cyl engine. The one that was put on by a factory trained gorilla and then tightened through years of use and corrosion. My first try took over 30 total minutes of pounding with the impact. Waiting for recovery once it got too low, and then hitting it again and again. I only had a 60 gal single stage "5 horse (so they say...)" at the time. Now I have a serious 2 stage 80 gal with a REAL 5 horse motor. The difference is astounding. And that was with a good old IR 231 impact too. I upgraded the wrench to the newer Ti 2135 later on too. Much stronger.
Is this for real? 6,000 rpm 5.3 HP Angle Grinder
Depmandog
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In one tool arena, pneumatic wins hands down IMHO, and that's pneumatic nailers. Specifically those small pin, finish and staplers used in furniture building.
I do have a gas cartridge & battery powered framing nailer that's very handy, and I would say I prefer that over dragging a hose across a construction site - but for a shop setting and the smaller finish type nailers I do prefer air powered.
For the impacts, DA sanders and the like, my preference is air powered, especially for the larger projects, requiring more oomph.
I do have a gas cartridge & battery powered framing nailer that's very handy, and I would say I prefer that over dragging a hose across a construction site - but for a shop setting and the smaller finish type nailers I do prefer air powered.
For the impacts, DA sanders and the like, my preference is air powered, especially for the larger projects, requiring more oomph.
Bird
Rest in Peace
:laughing:Yeah, I used to have a 60 gallon compressor with what was labelled as a "6 hp" motor, but the salesman from whom I bought it told me beforehand that they called it an "imitation 6 hp" and he showed me one of their real 5 hp motors on a 2 stage 80 gallon compressor. And the IR231 and CP734 were probably the biggest selling, best liked, most common half inch impacts sold for many years, but there are certainly lots of more powerful ones available now. And of course, I'd recommend a 2 stage, 80 gallon, 175 psi compressor for everyone if you have plenty of money and 230v power handy. But I think I'm safe in saying such is not really needed by 99% of us.:laughing:
I assume that everyone knows that all the impacts that I'm familiar with are rated at 90 psi. You can certainly get more power with higher pressure, although it's harder on the tool. As I've said in the past, high air pressure, moisture and dirt in through the air intake, and lack of lubrication are what keeps an air tool repairman in business.
ruffdog
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I have a cheaper 5hp 60 gal single stage compressor. The air tools I have are the typical impacts, ratchets, hammer, drills, small and big buffers. The big drill and buffer really eat the air and the compressor can't keep up. I don't do much shop work any more, but if I did, I would get a two stage compressor.
Gem99ultra
Elite Member
No doubt this will be viewed as a stupid, inappropriate question...
But - can you use a bottle of compressed air with an air tool, assuming that you regulate the pressure to something reasonable?
But - can you use a bottle of compressed air with an air tool, assuming that you regulate the pressure to something reasonable?
ericher69
Veteran Member
Yes
http://powertank.com
CO2 system but air will work just as well; although you won't be able to use an air tool for any length of time.
When I don't need to do much, such as like run a few nails with a small nailer, and don't want to carry an air compressor to where the job is, I use a portable air tank all the time.
If I put 175 psi in my portable air tank, I have enough air to change one tire, with my 1/2" impact. That can come in handy.
Between those two, Milwaukee hands down. Mostly because Black and Decker/DeWalt's policy is to discontinue offering any parts, once the type number, (version number), of that model is 10 years out of production.
Milwaukee on the other hand, once supplied me parts for a tool that was 35 years old.
Not that these are, but I would avoid variable speed electric grinders all together, they are too easy to burn up.
I currently have a 9" 15 amp Hitachi from Lowe's, (around $130). And, I am very happy with it. It always takes all I can give it.
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