Electric selector valve

[davesisk]

Alright, I've been researching how to plumb in a standard, open-center, 4-way, 3-position, single-spool valve, and I'm not sure that I'm any further along than I was this morning! (However, I have learned a few things from talking with folks!)

I've been told by someone at PT to plumb it in with "T's", but a hydraulic supplier said that would never work...the fluid would flow the path of least resistance and all go through the unactivated valve's open center. Sounds right to me.

The same supplier said that I might be able to plumb it in series, but that might not work based on any relief settings in the original vavle or the system in general.

I'm thinking Charlie's diverter valve sure sounds simpler to me. And the more I think about it, the more I like the electric one even though it costs about twice the price of the manual one.

Here's a link to the electric one on Surplus Center


Since, as I understand it, the selector valve essentially goes inline with the lines going to (for instance) the curl cylinder, this sounds like it would not be rocket science to install and get it working. Also, since there's little or no "uncertainty" around whether it will actually work or not, sounds like it would be a much better choice over plumbing something into the "guts" of the machine's hydraulic system.

I think I just talked myself into this... /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

 

[Charlie_Iliff]

Dave:
Without a diagram, I can't tell if that valve does exactly what mine does. It sounds as if it does. You have to be careful to verify that it is a stand alone diverter, connected only by hoses, and not one that fits in a stack and/or needs an adapter block of some sort.

 

[davesisk]

Thanks, Charlie. I will verify that...

I was looking at the hoses that go to the curl cylinder this morning...they're both on the front of the machine and within easy reach. This looks like it would be a pretty simple install.

Dave

 

[davesisk]

I just talked to surplus center, and looks like this one would actually be the better choice for what I want to do:

http://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?UID=2003032715315196&item=9-1782&catname=hydraulic

This one has 6 ports: two are the pressure/return ports of course, then two are default output ports when no voltage is applied (would go to the original curl cylinder), and the final two are diverted ports when a voltage is applied (would have quick connects on the ends to plug into another cylinder).

The one I posted in the first post has no default ports. With a voltage on one solenoid you get a flow to one set of ports, a voltage on the other solenoid gets you a flow to 2nd set, and (I think) a voltage on both gets you a flow to both (or something like that).

Cool beans.

Does anyone recall right off if the hoses to the lift and curl cylinders are 1/4" NPT or 3/8" NPT? I'll need adapter fittings to convert the female SAE 6 ports on the diverter valve to the correct size male NPT ports...

Dave

 

[Charlie_Iliff]

That one looks right to me. Can't help you on hose sizes. I took the valve and a hose to the hydraulic place and assembled a kit without really knowing the sizes or types - just that they went together.

 

[davesisk]

Here's a manual selector valve:

<a href="http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=6970&langId=-1&catalogId=4006970&PHOTOS=on&TEST=Y&productId=20870" target="_blank">http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=6970&langId=-1&catalogId=4006970&PHOTOS=on&TEST=Y&productId=20870[/url]</a>

So, I guess the question is do I really need the convenience of an electric switch on the joystick, or should I just mount this mechanical valve on the "dash" left of the steering wheel? The hoses would have to be longer.

Charlie, any idea how well the solenoid on these electric selectors stand up to being wet and dirty?

Thanks!
Dave

 

[MossRoad]

Bad link on that last one Dave.

A manual selector valve is pretty inexpensive(under $30.00) but you have to push it in to do the other function, then pull it out for the other function. The plumbing would probably be the same as for the electric one, right? So, for only about $110 or so more(plus switch and wires) you could have the electric one. I'd go for the electric one. Of course, I'm spending your money, not mine /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

 

[davesisk]

Strange on the URL....? Anyway, the product# is 2071 on www.northerntool.com.

Yes, I believe the plumbing would be exactly the same, with the exception that (in my case) the hoses would need to be longer. I'd mount the electric one on the front of the PT near the hoses, but I couldn't do that with the manual one, it would actually need to be mounted where I could physically reach it /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif, which means on the dash, probably left of the steering wheel. I'd have to use longer hoses to insert it between the joystick valve and the original cylinder.

MR, did you ever decide how you're going to go on the grapple you're building? How's progress on that, just out of curiosity? (Come on down to NC and let's weld that sucker up! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif)

Dave

 

[Charlie_Iliff]

<font color="red">Charlie, any idea how well the solenoid on these electric selectors stand up to being wet and dirty?
</font>

So far so good with mine. It's been plenty wet and plenty dirty, and so far still works.

[This morning, I got caught in the rain, dragging an old 8' chain harrow around a pasture. Now I'll probably get home to find the diverter solenoid dead.]

 

[davesisk]

[This morning, I got caught in the rain, dragging an old 8' chain harrow around a pasture. Now I'll probably get home to find the diverter solenoid dead.]

Doh! Didn't mean to jinx ya!

Dave

 

[MossRoad]

Grapple is waiting for me to buy a cylinder, then plumb everything to use the quick connect circuit just like the power angel for the snow plow.

Here's the link to the selector valve at Northern.

 

[davesisk]

Picture of thumb switch?

Charlie:

Any chance you've got a picture of the thumb switch mounted to your joystick that you would post? What type of switch did you use? Surface mount?

Thx!
Dave

 

[davesisk]

OK, so I think I figured out how to make this decision. If I were going to build the grapple as a seperate attachment (with upper jaws and lower jaws, not as part of the current bucket), then I think I'd go with the manual selector. If I were going to build the grapple jaw onto the current bucket (which I use 90% of the time), then I should go with the electric selector, as I'll be using that capability more often. I've thought about which type of grapple I want to add, and I think I'll add a grapple to the current bucket...that's easier to build, and unless I make the grapple jaw just too darned big, then I don't think it will "get in the way" when I don't need it's capability. (Has anyone else got any experiences to share on when the grapple on a grapple bucket "gets in the way"?)

Right now, I'm leaning strongly toward the electric selector valve!

Dave

 

[MossRoad]

Having not finished mine, I couldn't tell you when it will get in the way. I'll brobably tip my bucket all the way back and see how far I can open the jaws. Then put a temporary stop in to limit the jaws to that point. Then I'll see if the opening is wide enough to do functional work. I originally planned to make them open as wide as possible(and still might) but I have to be careful to see if it hits anything. A few more weeks and I'll have time to work on it again....... I hope /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

 

[Charlie_Iliff]

Re: Picture of thumb switch?

I used the W.R. Long button which is at the top of a handle that slides over the joystick and clamps on.

Button thread

 

[davesisk]

Ordered!

Well, I decided to go with the electric selector valve. If anyone is interested, here are the Surplus Center part#'s:

9-1782: SAE 6 8gpm 3000 PSI solenoid activated selector valve ($139.50)
9-4634: SAE 6 Male to 1/4" NPT Female swivel fitting (6 of these @ $1.29)

I'll probably still need to put in 6 - 1/4" NPT to 1/4" NPT elbows to mate up to the hoses the way PT does them, but those should be easily available locally (at, say, one of the two local Northern Tool stores).

Thanks for all the help selecting (no pun intended) the correct components, Charlie and MR! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Dave

 

[davesisk]

Re: Picture of thumb switch?

Hey Charlie:

Thanks for the link to the pic. Can I ask one more question about your thumb button? /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif How did you get the ball off of the end of the joystick? Does it just unscrew? I'm thinking I'll just find a water-proof switch mount it to the ball somehow. Surface mount would probably be ideal, but most switches are recessed, so I'm wondering if I could just drill a big hole in the ball (you know, trying to make it look all neat and tidy, etc.)

Thx!
Dave

 

[davesisk]

MR:

Have you decided what size cylinder you're going to use? Probably one of the smaller ones, like a 2x6 or 2x8?

Dave

 

[Charlie_Iliff]

Re: Picture of thumb switch?

Dave:
The knob on mine unscrewed easily.

I shopped a bit for switches before I decided to go with the pre-fab setup. I couldn't find one that would work for a neat installation, but there surely are a lot more out there. Grainger and a boat store didn't have anything. Push - to - talk buttons for aircraft radios are possible, but current to the solenoid may be a bit much.
Although probably not heavy duty enough, there are a lot of handles with buttons on various game joysticks.
Joystick handles from airplanes are available if you hunt. It's been a bunch of years since I had a Trade-a-Plane, but I'll bet someone on TBN has one and can check for handles with gun triggers, etc.
The joystick on mine is solid. If yours is, maybe you want to cut it off down low and weld a piece of tubing. That opens up all sorts of elegant solutions. Or, if laziness prevail, the handle with button, wires and clamp is a little over $50 at
W. R. Long, Inc.
P.O. Box 460
1607 Cedar St.
Tarboro, NC 27886
800-823-4570
Fax 252-823-4570

 

[MossRoad]

I'm more concerned about the closed dimensions than anything else. I can adjust the link to get the proper throw, but around 8" travel will be just about right.