dumb question about HST

[Torvy]

To the best of my knowledge yes that is still a semi common feature. I believe Deere 2,000 series, some Kubota B series and BX series, TYM Branson have dual, etc.

Huh? My T574 has 3 range. The 20 series has a 4 range.

The only models with a 2 range are the little sub-compacts.

 

[CloverKnollFarms]

Yeah, I have the 4 range hydro. Love it

 

[Gregster613]

Huh? My T574 has 3 range. The 20 series has a 4 range.

The only models with a 2 range are the little sub-compacts.

Torvy, My 2009 TYM273 is 27hp and has a two range HST. Granted I don't plow or do much ground work other than use a 5' box blade and a 5' Woods cutter, but it works well for my uses. Pulls everything I've hooked to it so far. Again though, I'm almost always in low range. I just wanted to point out that mine is also a two range. Greg

 

[Torvy]

Interesting. Not the case with any new models except the little ones.

To be fair, I'm almost always in M. I use L sometimes. I have nowhere that makes H practical. I tested it out once. Maybe if I ever get around to leveling the ground in the few spots that aren't trees.

 

[Beeenvenue]

1) those who advocate throttling as an advantage for gear don’t understand the negative on a modern DPF machine where you need to keep it at or above 2000 rpm. The old days of throttle control for speed are gone
2) whine? Change to premium hydraulic fluid and the whine goes away
3) rob power? Check the specs they will tell you exactly what you lose. In the kioti 3510 I have my hst has 28.x at pto, gear has 29.x (I can’t remember exactly it’s been years since I’ve looked). One hp.
4) mowing on MY land I can’t imagine not having an hst. I go from heavy thick prairie weeds to nice coastal Bermuda. I also go up and down over 3’ swales. I’m constantly feathering and advancing my ground speed to accomodate. Without an hst I would be stuck in a lower speed or continuously shifting. (I do have cruise for the areas where I can use it). Your experience will vary!
5) hst maintenance? What maintenance? I’ve not done anything other than my 50 and 400 hour filter with full fluid change at 400 (Mobil delvac for the win!). It may be a one off warranty issue or inexperience but a neighbor has a gear and had to have his clutch changed at 300 hours.

I think it is personal preference just like treadle pedal vs dual pedal on hsts. But worrying about the other issues is not worth it; pick based on functionality.

 

[ning]

Interesting. Not the case with any new models except the little ones.

To be fair, I'm almost always in M. I use L sometimes. I have nowhere that makes H practical. I tested it out once. Maybe if I ever get around to leveling the ground in the few spots that aren't trees.

Mine has 3-range and similarly I'm 90% in M, L if I'm carrying something really heavy up a hill or I'm maneuvering in a very tight spot so I want to make sure I don't hit anything.

Half of my property is a decently steep hill but the tractor does fine in M if not loaded, though I occasionally throttle up manually as the linked throttle advance is too aggressive for the steeper parts of the hill.

I did road my tractor a few months ago for a mile each direction, and part of the way going out I started in H, but halfway there there's a little hill and I had to stop and shift to M. I do gear down quite a bit on my bicycle for that hill to but the bike doesn't have to come to a complete stop! It was H the whole way back.

 

[CloverKnollFarms]

I'm usually in B range, D is road gear, A is creeper, C is a slow transport gear.

 

[Slowpoke Slim]

My HST is 3 range. I'm almost always in M range. I load and unload it off my trailer in L range, but that's usually the only time I'm in L at all. I very seldom road my tractor anywhere due to how far away my mowing jobs are from me. I trailer it to my jobs. I mow small, up to large jobs, occasionally really large jobs. Unless it's very steep, I'm mowing in M range. Sometimes if it's very steep I have to shift to L range, and engage both the diff lock and the front diff.

I've mowed some large fields, and some long utility right of ways. The comments about HST's "getting hot" on large jobs is just pure nonsense. Only time my tractor gets hot is if chaff starts blocking air flow through the coolers and radiator. And the A/C starts getting warm and the engine temp gauge starts climbing LONG before there's any issues with the HST getting "hot". You would have the exact same issue with blocked radiators and coolers in a gear tractor. So in either case, you're going to have to stop and blow the chaff out. Sometimes I have to stop several times a day and blow the radiator and coolers free. Also, run good fluids. I'm using synthetics for engine oil, hydro and diff gears.

Here's a good sized field cut in summer (stretches quite a ways off to left and behind me):

Here's a utility right of way that I cut. Went on for miles, and I'm just getting started in this pic (first pass completed and heading back, I think I'm at the midpoint here, iirc). Grass is hood high or better through most of this:

If the field I'm cutting is rough as a cob, I can easily moderate my ground speed while keeping the engine at full pto speed. If I actually get a section that's not very rough, I can switch on the cruise control and all I have to do is steer.

 

[Mtsoxfan]

My 2025 CK3520 has 3 range. Almost all my work is in M, except when carrying heavy loads or brush hogging up short steep hills. Then I go back into M after I get to top. 28 hp at PTO. dealer could have sold me a smaller flail, but said the one I bought would be no issue, except on those short hills, then I'd need to go in L.

 

[Slowpoke Slim]

I am so glad that I re-joined this list and asked some questions.

I've owned my current tractors for 20+ years. My newest tractor is 40 years old. I first joined the list in 2002, but I left the list in 2005 and have remained largely clueless about HST tractors that have (it seems to me) greatly increased in popularity.

On the suggestion of a buddy, I was thinking about going HST on my (first ever!) new tractor purchase.

But after reading here (and other sites) about performance issues of HST when pressed to and beyond their rated performance capabilities, I did some more searching, and found this objective test of two identical tractors (except one was geared and the other HST):

WOW. I thought that HST performance lagged behind gear by "a few percent". While that may be true in general, it certainly doesn't appear to be the case under extreme conditions.

Very surprised that gear developed 3X the pulling force of HST.

And since the gear tractor spun (all four) tires, we don't know what the maximum pulling force would have been with better traction since the geared tractor lost traction (the old coefficient of dynamic friction < coefficient of static friction rule). With better traction, what would the pulling force difference be? 4X? 5X?

And the topper was the geared tractor besting HST by 50% when geared tractor was put in high gear.

Thanks to many on this list, I think I can answer my question about "is HST a good option for me".

Thanks again.

Neil actually received so much blow back for the way he "set up" that original test. He had to do a second video to talk about it. Said it was his most attacked video he ever put out (to that date anyway). You could tell he was not expecting that much heat.

If you wanted to design a test to guaranty a "win" for the gear tractor, that would be the way to do it. Run the same test with the HST in Low, and the gear tractor in it's highest gear and highest range, and compare the results. That would not be a fair test either, but it makes the point.

 

[LouNY]

It's much easier then that, just take two tractor as close as possible to the same to a transfer sled tractor pull.
Most local pulls will allow exhibition pulls.
They can weigh the tractors to verify the weights, measure the drawbar heights, set the tire pressures the same and then see what happens.
Do so in 2wd and 4wd.

 

[Gregster613]

Interesting. Not the case with any new models except the little ones.

To be fair, I'm almost always in M. I use L sometimes. I have nowhere that makes H practical. I tested it out once. Maybe if I ever get around to leveling the ground in the few spots that aren't trees.

I can easily believe and understand that. I'm sure if mine was 3 range I'd probably be using M mostly also. For me, low is geared really well for most of everything I do; H is only for speeding from the garage to where the attachments are parked and the job is at. Most of what I do is loader work or bush-hogging and low seems most appropriate for them.

 

[RjCorazza]

My first 2 tractors were straight geared, next 2 HST. I could never go back to a geared machine for my use. I road my tractor between jobs a lot in High, do the majority of work in Medium, only use Low for stump grinding and pulling real heavy stuff.
I have a Hi-Lo in each range which is a big plus.

 

[Torvy]

My first 2 tractors were straight geared, next 2 HST. I could never go back to a geared machine for my use. I road my tractor between jobs a lot in High, do the majority of work in Medium, only use Low for stump grinding and pulling real heavy stuff.
I have a Hi-Lo in each range which is a big plus.

Great example we can all learn from...solutions are not one size fits all. We all use our equipment as it suits are situations and abilities.

 

[Sawyer Rob]

1) those who advocate throttling as an advantage for gear don’t understand the negative on a modern DPF machine where you need to keep it at or above 2000 rpm. The old days of throttle control for speed are gone
2) whine? Change to premium hydraulic fluid and the whine goes away
3) rob power? Check the specs they will tell you exactly what you lose. In the kioti 3510 I have my hst has 28.x at pto, gear has 29.x (I can’t remember exactly it’s been years since I’ve looked). One hp.
4) mowing on MY land I can’t imagine not having an hst. I go from heavy thick prairie weeds to nice coastal Bermuda. I also go up and down over 3’ swales. I’m constantly feathering and advancing my ground speed to accomodate. Without an hst I would be stuck in a lower speed or continuously shifting. (I do have cruise for the areas where I can use it). Your experience will vary!
5) hst maintenance? What maintenance? I’ve not done anything other than my 50 and 400 hour filter with full fluid change at 400 (Mobil delvac for the win!). It may be a one off warranty issue or inexperience but a neighbor has a gear and had to have his clutch changed at 300 hours.

I think it is personal preference just like treadle pedal vs dual pedal on hsts. But worrying about the other issues is not worth it; pick based on functionality.

Where do you guys come up with this BS?? I think the same piles must just keep on getting repeated instead of doing your own homework.

1. NONE of my "modern" tractors use DEF or need regen or any other crapola, not even the new one I bought a few months ago, so YES I can ajust my speed using the throttle on any of them.
2. Changing to premium oil to stop the whining does NOT work on all whiner trans! It may have on yours, but it doesn't on all of them. The only thing it makes go away FORSURE, is more money leaving your pocket!
3. With a small tractor, 2 or 3 hp is quite a bit, I choose to have the HP instead of the loss of hp in the tranny!
4. I don't know anything about your land, just like you don't know anything about mine.
5. NO QUESTION it cost more $ to do oil/filter changes on the whiner, and the whiner is much pickier on what oil is used. (as you said) As for clutches, I've never had to change a clutch on any of my tractors, and here's the hours on the one I was running today,

You don't suppose a 300 hour clutch could be "operator error" do you??

SR

 

[oldnslo]

Where do you guys come up with this BS?? I think the same piles must just keep on getting repeated instead of doing your own homework.

1. NONE of my "modern" tractors use DEF or need regen or any other crapola, not even the new one I bought a few months ago, so YES I can ajust my speed using the throttle on any of them.
2. Changing to premium oil to stop the whining does NOT work on all whiner trans! It may have on yours, but it doesn't on all of them. The only thing it makes go away FORSURE, is more money leaving your pocket!
3. With a small tractor, 2 or 3 hp is quite a bit, I choose to have the HP instead of the loss of hp in the tranny!
4. I don't know anything about your land, just like you don't know anything about mine.
5. NO QUESTION it cost more $ to do oil/filter changes on the whiner, and the whiner is much pickier on what oil is used. (as you said) As for clutches, I've never had to change a clutch on any of my tractors, and here's the hours on the one I was running today,

You don't suppose a 300 hour clutch could be "operator error" do you??

SR

Only 5742 hrs, just getting broke in

Be curious to guess hours on some of the old tractors like A & B John Deere’s, H & M Farmalls, 8N Fords, etc. that were built before they had hour meters.

 

[paulsharvey]

My first 2 tractors were straight geared, next 2 HST. I could never go back to a geared machine for my use. I road my tractor between jobs a lot in High, do the majority of work in Medium, only use Low for stump grinding and pulling real heavy stuff.
I have a Hi-Lo in each range which is a big plus.

Straight hunt and peck transmission, 28.5 engine HP to HST, 24.8ish HP here. I'm 95% in medium, and there are times I miss that 4ish HP, but never the transmission. Power Shuttlea are a great option for loader work; actually probably better than HST. Smallest PS i know is theMF 1840M?

 

[ptsg]

Where do you guys come up with this BS?? I think the same piles must just keep on getting repeated instead of doing your own homework.

1. NONE of my "modern" tractors use DEF or need regen or any other crapola, not even the new one I bought a few months ago, so YES I can ajust my speed using the throttle on any of them.
2. Changing to premium oil to stop the whining does NOT work on all whiner trans! It may have on yours, but it doesn't on all of them. The only thing it makes go away FORSURE, is more money leaving your pocket!
3. With a small tractor, 2 or 3 hp is quite a bit, I choose to have the HP instead of the loss of hp in the tranny!
4. I don't know anything about your land, just like you don't know anything about mine.
5. NO QUESTION it cost more $ to do oil/filter changes on the whiner, and the whiner is much pickier on what oil is used. (as you said) As for clutches, I've never had to change a clutch on any of my tractors, and here's the hours on the one I was running today,

You don't suppose a 300 hour clutch could be "operator error" do you??

SR

Regarding #3, they don't even realize that those 2 or 3HP difference between gear and HST is just a stationary rating on the spec list. Once it starts moving, that HP difference is bigger, much bigger.

Like you said, same BS gets spread over and over again and preached by folks who most likely never ran a tractor with gear transmission, don't know any better or never seen one being operated properly.

If a clutch is being changed at 300 hours, that IS an operator issue. If I'm not getting at least 2500 or 3000 hours out of the clutch on my tractor, I'm doing something wrong and that's on the low side.

 

[shooterdon]

Since I got my LS six years ago I thought I was doing something wrong. I could never do any "work" in 3rd range. Almost always run in 2nd range. Even running on the road to a neighbor's place, if I had it in 3rd, it would bog down going up a hill.

Now I know that others have the same experience.

As to what to buy, some good advice has been given. IMO for most "hobby" users like me, HST seems a better fit for general purpose use.

 

[paulsharvey]

As always, every single one of these threads in this topic; different machine is better at different jobs.

Ground engaging; ie, plowing, disc, harrow, hay rake, especially long straight lines; gears are ideal; were ground speed is the critical factory, that needs to be in a fairly tight band. While HST with cruise control will do this, it's not its perfect place. Power shuttle can, but again, its not the ideal power train.

Constant PTO speed, with varying ground speed; HST is fantastic for this. For constant RPM, varying speed, shuttles aren't ideal. Gear isn't good at this. Think mowing, got to keep at 540 or atleast 540E RPM range, but you can slow down to a crawl through heavy stuff, or when you pick up a mower and make the return path.

Varying speed and power requirements, with lots of reverse, stopping, ect; and power shuttle is ideal for this.

There are things about HST that is kinda annoyin; having to run basically PTO rpms at all times for instance, when using loade, or even just driving..