Doin' the PT Pucker

Sedgewood · May 7, 2002

Re: Doin\' the PT Pucker

Charlie I think the hydraulics will lift the back end, even straight on, although not very fast or high.

The hydraulics won't pick up the back end of mine. Did you get the top gun special maybe?

 As you demonstrated, however, when you turn while lifting there is no problem whatsoever in tilting the back end, as opposed to picking it up.

Ah.. let the light shine in... I didn't lift the rear, I only TIPPED it! It is in general taking me some time getting used to intuiting what the outta sight back end is doing. Especially while box blading. In fact I'm thinking some mirrors might be a good thing.

One thing about sitting on the part that moves is the sitter gets way more motion feedback than on a conventional tractor but way less visual feedback from being so far forward. Do they make a slingshot version for top gunners? Its taking a while to retrain myself but I'm getting there and loving every minute of it. When I started playing with big boys toys REAL tractors had THREE wheels. It took a long while to get used to the reduced maneuverability of the fourth wheel - now I'm tickled pink to have it back - in spades!!

Sedgewood · May 7, 2002

Re: Doin\' the PT Pucker

MossRoad Personally, I want to keep my machine as light as possible for lawn work.

Yeah for a while I thought more weight/more traction would be better but the more I run this thing the more I realize I have no traction problem. If I get in any deeper I'll be hung on the belly pan anyway and weight ain't gonna help!

Charlie_Iliff · May 7, 2002

PT Pucker and Tractor Driving Contests

John: You wrote "It is in general taking me some time getting used to intuiting what the outta sight back end is doing."
When I was growing up, we had hotly contested tractor driving contests at the County Fair. They included towing four-wheel hay wagons, and backing them around corners and into tight doorways -- all timed, of course, with penalties for hitting things.
Try to visualize a four wheel trailer behind a Power Trac, backing up. We could have a contest that no top gun in the country could complete.

MossRoad · May 7, 2002

Re: PT Pucker and Tractor Driving Contests

I'd take that challenge. I used to work at an airport. One of my duties was "stacking" hangars. That means putting in as many planes as possible to maximize overnight hangar rental space. And the penalty for bumping into things with an airplane is a visit from the FAA /w3tcompact/icons/shocked.gif. By the way, did you see that Power Trac offers an airplane package for just this purpose? In my opinion, it would make an excellent aircraft tug.

bubenberg · May 7, 2002

Re: PT Pucker and Tractor Driving Contests

charlie,

when, where how ... never thought of participating in a demolition derby .. oh i see, the goal is to not hit anything.

Sedgewood · May 8, 2002

Re: Doin\' the PT Pucker

Charlie Sunday, with the hoe on the front to stir a compost pile, I looked around and found I'd driven all four wheels into a PT 1845 sized hole. Turned out it was no serious problem to get out, but I spent a little time at odd angles and wondering if the belly pan would clear the lip. This time, no external help needed.

The ability of these things to scrabble out of seemingly impossible spots just continues to amaze me.... which surely means that when I do finally stick mine it will be big time, embarrassingly, call for help STUCK!

BTW how goes the hoe? I still want to do something along those lines, perhaps with a thumb but I'm having trouble convincing myself the tractor is heavy enough in front to dig well and that it has enough lift.

Anonymous Poster · May 8, 2002

Re: Doin\' the PT Pucker

Have you guys looked at the Magnatrac site lately? They've introduced a new "front end" hoe for their machines that might be perfect on the PT's. (By design anyway, maybe not fit and price)

Charlie_Iliff · May 8, 2002

Re: PT Pucker and Tractor Driving Contests

David:
Hooking the wagon to the front and pushing it backward would be no problem. That would be the same as hangar work with a towbar. I think the airplane tug attachment is essentially the same as the adapter we put together with a 2" receiver. I use that a lot to push a two wheel trailer backward, and could figure out an airplane or four wheel wagon.
The contest, however, would be to hook the 4 wheel wagon to the back of a Power Trac, as it is done with conventional tractors, and then try to back it up. No fair practicing first, and Hans can't enter, because he probably already has tried it.

Charlie_Iliff · May 8, 2002

Re: Doin\' the PT Pucker

"BTW how goes the hoe? I still want to do something along those lines, perhaps with a thumb but I'm having trouble convincing myself the tractor is heavy enough in front to dig well and that it has enough lift."
John:
I doubt I'll ever be a good information source for how the hoe compares to a real backhoe. I don't have any experience on one. I only have used mine a little, and have found that it seems to dig easily, particularly with the thumb. When I can position it so the thumb is stuck in the ground, the bucket curls back through the dirt to the thumb, so the weight of the machine and ultimate lift capability aren't as important. I still have to back against it a bit to hold, but it seems to go through even firm ground fairly easily. Our place is easy digging, however, with high sand content and few sizeable rocks.

MossRoad · May 8, 2002

Re: PT Pucker and Tractor Driving Contests

I understand hooking it on the back. I still think it would be a piece of cake.

To make it a bigger challenge, put a wide bucket on the front so that it can swing into things as your watching the rear push the trailer /w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif

Charlie_Iliff · May 8, 2002

Re: PT Pucker and Tractor Driving Contests

To make it a bigger challenge, put a wide bucket on the front so that it can swing into things as your watching the rear push the trailer 
And a narrow course between decorative trellises - say at canopy height.

MossRoad · May 8, 2002

Re: PT Pucker and Tractor Driving Contests

Someone's spouse has to have a prized rose garden with trellises that we can convert to a skills test course.

ponytug · Dec 11, 2007

Re: PT Pucker and Tractor Driving Contests

As Charlie implies, this is very difficult, even more so if you have soft ground.

Pushing two wheeled trailers with a single pivot point: easy
Pushing a four wheeld trailer with rotating front wheel pivot: Training wheels off.
Pushing two four wheeled trailers with two pivots: Challenging.
Doing it with large loads: Yikes!

I worked for awhile on an alfalfa farm, where we used double four wheel trailers behind a tractor. (A Deutz!). Despite my best efforts, every so often, I would have to back the double trailers up. Let's just say that it gets into very high order spaces quickly. I did get to the point where I could parallel park them next to the barn, but it did take some seat time to get proficient. Of course, once other people knew, I ended up with task of getting the trailers out of some real SNAFUs that others had gotten stuck in, usually with about three or four tons of alfalfa on each trailer. Sometimes it is better if other people don't know you can do something...

I am always amazed to watch the semi-driver's skill finals, or a professional heavy equipment operator.

I'm still trying to get the hang of the PT and earth moving. Everytime I try to scrape going forward, I make some horrendous scalp that takes me ages to patch up. The 4N1 in reverse has been great; I just don't seem to get the hang of using the blade going forward. Certainly makes me feel all thumbs.

All the best,

Peter

Charlie_Iliff said:
David:
Hooking the wagon to the front and pushing it backward would be no problem. That would be the same as hangar work with a towbar. I think the airplane tug attachment is essentially the same as the adapter we put together with a 2" receiver. I use that a lot to push a two wheel trailer backward, and could figure out an airplane or four wheel wagon.
The contest, however, would be to hook the 4 wheel wagon to the back of a Power Trac, as it is done with conventional tractors, and then try to back it up. No fair practicing first, and Hans can't enter, because he probably already has tried it.

jfh28 · Dec 11, 2007

Re: PT Pucker and Tractor Driving Contests

Same here.....I can't grade going forward to save my life. But I can back drag with the best of them.

Jack

ponytug said:
I'm still trying to get the hang of the PT and earth moving. Everytime I try to scrape going forward, I make some horrendous scalp that takes me ages to patch up. The 4N1 in reverse has been great; I just don't seem to get the hang of using the blade going forward.

J_J · Dec 11, 2007

Re: PT Pucker and Tractor Driving Contests

jfh28 said:
Same here.....I can't grade going forward to save my life. But I can back drag with the best of them.

Jack

I think the reason is that going forward the blade acts as a chisel, and if there is no easy way to control the depth, even though you play with the joystick it will try and dig in. Dragging backward, you are just pulling on a chuck of metal. If it is angled wrong, it will also dig in.

ponytug · Dec 11, 2007

Re: PT Pucker and Tractor Driving Contests

Well, I defer to the experts. Having tried it, it seems complicated to me, but here are my thoughts for what they are worth.

The pulling the 4N1 with the clam blade open and cutting, tends to lift the rear wheel when it sticks, thereby self correcting and lifting the blade back to the set height. (I agree that you can set the blade to dig in too much, but it is easy to correct.)
Pulling the LMB or 4N1 closed, are always less than 90 degrees (normal) to the surface and tends to get pushed up by rocks, etc., and thus doesn't dig in.
Pushing the 4N1 closed, slight variations in the flatness cause the blade to dig in, unless the leading edge is higher than the trailing edge, which then pry up the blade/obstruction. Ditto with the LMB.
Pushing the 4N1 with the clam shell open, i.e. blade only, seems to dig in very readily, I think because of the lever action of the ratio of the distance to the front wheels to the rear wheels tends to enhance the digging by lifting the rear end, unless the blade is less than normal to the surface.

But perhaps I'm not thinking about it correctly. I certainly know that pulling the 4N1 clam open gives me a beautifully flat surface, especially if the attack angle is set slightly in, and the bucket is in float. Pushing, well, let's say I could use all the help I can get.

All the best,

Peter

J_J said:
I think the reason is that going forward the blade acts as a chisel, and if there is no easy way to control the depth, even though you play with the joystick it will try and dig in. Dragging backward, you are just pulling on a chuck of metal. If it is angled wrong, it will also dig in.

woodlandfarms · Dec 16, 2007

Hey, For all of my gripin I got to do the pucker (kinda) today. Skidding a downed tree with a chain off the bucket. Tree in Ravine.The back end got up, maybe a 1/2", but it happened.... Well, now that that anti climax is over...

SpringHollow · Dec 16, 2007

Hi Carl,

I finally got the tractor up and running again. Have the desiccant breather cap installed so hopefully no more water problems.

Installed the used snow plow and was plowing 12" of heavy wet stuff. Decided to try using the float position and did a reverse PT pucker! The plow dug in and the tractor kept going so the middle of the tractor humped up in the air. I guess I will not be trying the float position again!

The plow springs kept tripping at the slightest bump. My other plow was no way near that sensitive. The adjustment nuts are all rusted on so i will have to try the candle wax method. On the plus side, grass is enough to make it trip so it did not dig up the unfrozen driveway or yard.

Supposedly we are getting another 6-12" tonight.

Ken

RegL · Dec 16, 2007

ksimolo said:
Hi Carl,

I finally got the tractor up and running again. Have the desiccant breather cap installed so hopefully no more water problems.

Installed the used snow plow and was plowing 12" of heavy wet stuff. Decided to try using the float position and did a reverse PT pucker! The plow dug in and the tractor kept going so the middle of the tractor humped up in the air. I guess I will not be trying the float position again!

The plow springs kept tripping at the slightest bump. My other plow was no way near that sensitive. The adjustment nuts are all rusted on so i will have to try the candle wax method. On the plus side, grass is enough to make it trip so it did not dig up the unfrozen driveway or yard.

Supposedly we are getting another 6-12" tonight.

Ken

I never use float for plowing snow going forward for the reason you described. I almost always use draft control though. It allows the loader arms to adjust to changes in terrain but not cause the tractor to ride up over the bucket. I do use float to back drag.