dog training tips and questions

[CalG]

A verbal release from an executed command (Stay is the command, staying is the execution) is too easily compromised. The dog get's rewarded when "OK" allows him to run to you.

YOU need to come close and release the dog from the command WHEN YOU DESIRE, not when the dog wants to get nearer to you.

The Release needs to be rewarded separately from the stay command.

A simple touch will do, most dogs enjoy this.

Think of it from the dog's perspective.

How does the "come" command differ from "OK" when both are encouragement for the dog to stop doing what it is doing and get nearer to you? Something it likely wants to do any way.

 

[1 Old Man]

A verbal release from an executed command (Stay is the command, staying is the execution) is too easily compromised. The dog get's rewarded when "OK" allows him to run to you.

YOU need to come close and release the dog from the command WHEN YOU DESIRE, not when the dog wants to get nearer to you.

The Release needs to be rewarded separately from the stay command.

A simple touch will do, most dogs enjoy this.

Think of it from the dog's perspective.

How does the "come" command differ from "OK" when both are encouragement for the dog to stop doing what it is doing and get nearer to you? Something it likely wants to do any way.

So I'm currently working with my pup to obey at distance using both hand and vocal command.
Currently mainly playing fetch or "find-it" games. The ball or find-it item may be 30 to 50 yd away when the initial command is given (could be sit, down, or stay, depending.... and sometimes multiple commands). I am not going to walk all the way out to her to release. I am releasing by Come, not touch.
Is this going to cause future problems? If so, how to correct or change training? Thanks for your
input.

 

[CalG]

So I'm currently working with my pup to obey at distance using both hand and vocal command.
Currently mainly playing fetch or "find-it" games. The ball or find-it item may be 30 to 50 yd away when the initial command is given (could be sit, down, or stay, depending.... and sometimes multiple commands). I am not going to walk all the way out to her to release. I am releasing by Come, not touch.
Is this going to cause future problems? If so, how to correct or change training? Thanks for your
input.

Your need is common for "field dogs: as well as avalanche rescue dogs.

The "games" you are playing serve the purpose, as you are always in the activity. Hand commands and other physical triggers are GREAT! Dogs are so tuned in.

But what if you wanted your dog to stay while you went to lunch. Say an hour or maybe two. Start by just going out of sight. If the dog breaks, return it to the spot and try again. NO REWARDS, maybe a Scowl. be indifferent during the relocation!
You need to structure the command to the expectation.

There is no reason that a hand "down" can not hold a TEMPORARY stay of activity.
Use a hand UP for a follow up. With a "STAY" command requiring a higher level of permanence.

I celebrate you for working hand signals! Keep that dog paying attention to YOU! You both will be happier!

ETA

Why would you require the dog to "come" when all you wanted was to release it from the "stay" command?

Working with dogs suggests "computer language"
Explicit, distinct, and format matters!

eta...

I once had a friend that issued a "CHARGE" command when he was meeting another person and wanted his dog to lie down and be unobtrusive.

Sure got the other person's attention! ;-)

 

[1 Old Man]

Your need is common for "field dogs: as well as avalanche rescue dogs.

The "games" you are playing serve the purpose, as you are always in the activity. Hand commands and other physical triggers are GREAT! Dogs are so tuned in.

But what if you wanted your dog to stay while you went to lunch. Say an hour or maybe two. Start by just going out of sight. If the dog breaks, return it to the spot and try again. NO REWARDS, maybe a Scowl. be indifferent during the relocation!

You need to structure the command to the expectation.

Hmmmm.....OK. I'll work on extended stay when I am out of sight.

There is no reason that a hand "down" can not hold a TEMPORARY stay of activity.
Use a hand UP for a follow up. With a "STAY" command requiring a higher level of permanence.

I celebrate you for working hand signals! Keep that dog paying attention to YOU! You both will be happier!

ETA

Why would you require the dog to "come" when all you wanted was to release it from the "stay" command?

When she finds or retrieves the ball/toy I say Wait.....she will stand and look at me and usually drop the ball.... I will have her sit....sometimes sit, then down....depends. I say Ball and Come. She'll p/u the
ball and bee line to me. I say Come because I want her to return the dang ball! I think she's learning, we're
burning off a lot of energy and it's fun for both of us. I'm not trying to raise a avalanche rescue dog (live in Tx...not too many avalanches here).
I've also been using 2 balls. Sometimes throwing 2 out in different areas. She'll get both, but can only fit 1 at a time in her mouth. So I use Ball and Come and she will bring 1 back. Then send her for Ball #2.

Working with dogs suggests "computer language"
Explicit, distinct, and format matters!

eta...

I once had a friend that issued a "CHARGE" command when he was meeting another person and wanted his dog to lie down and be unobtrusive.

Sure got the other person's attention! ;-)

As a side note: I took her to HD with me today. She is not over friendly but not aggressive. Not interested in most folks, just the noise and unusual sounds/activities. However, there was a guy in a wheel chair there
and she got really close to me when he went by. I waited a few seconds and then asked him if it was ok if I brought my dog over to him. He was very gracious and said sure, then slowly lowered his hand. She gave his hand a good sniff and just sat down next to me. Seems like a small thing, but for her to even approach
someone to give them a sniff is a big deal. She will refuse dog treats from workers at HD or my dry cleaners and TSC. But if they give the treat to me (and no, I didn't eat it myself) then I give it to her she'll eat it right down. (I'm ok with this because I really don't want strangers feeding my dog. Am I a bad Dad?)
She just turned 1 yr old. She goes to work on the farm with me and just hangs out or explores when I'm fencing etc. I love this dog.

 

[CalG]

Teach your dog to eat NOTHING that does not have your blessing .

You will be thankful for this, but it seems your dog has this innately.

I lost a great Brittany spaniel to poison brought in by another dog.

 

[alexpops]

I had a Bassett that was extremely skittish when we first brought him home. He would freak out when going into the kitchen, and seemed scared of everything. I worried he was simply going to be a fearful dog, and would always be a problem. Turned out he had a juvenile cataract, so wouldn't see something, like the stove, until it literally jumped out and towered over him. Personality transformed overnight when we brought home a GSD pup. They became inseperable within 2 hours. Nearest I can figure, he kept her in sight, saw she wasn't afraid, so he wasn't either. Wound up being a great dog for 14 years.

 

[Rockbadchild]

We had a training session with a dog trainer yesterday, our Vegas (GSD) did a great job since the wife put lots of time and effort train her to stay in her bed, she made the first session easy but it was good we got introduce to a prong collar and a few tips and languages differences he wants us to used, we have to practice that and we have a other session next week. it’s definitely worth it.

 

[IndyIan]

My tip is to get a dog bred for what you want it to do. A champion retriever lab is great if you do competitions, but maybe not so great if you are away 8+hrs a day... It has energy to burn and will find something to do/wreck. I don't know what the ideal breed is for an indoor pet dog? But probably not a high energy breed like most labs or retrievers.
We have Maremma's to keep the predators away, and its amazing how their instinct is to protect. They need a little correction on not "playing" with the goat kids when they are young, but after age 2 they just do their thing, and some will even correct the new pup if it gets too rowdy. (We get another one every 4-5 years.)
No kennel club stuff either with them, so they seem to be healthy(not inbred) and ours have lived to 14-15 years outdoors, and are happy doing what they were meant to do.

 

[Willman]

Prong collars cause pain and are used as a shortcut by dog trainers
Worst yet is owners using prong collars 24/7

Put one on your neck and jerk the leash, feels good

 

[Rockbadchild]

Prong collars cause pain and are used as a shortcut by dog trainers
Worst yet is owners using prong collars 24/7

Put one on your neck and jerk the leash, feels good

I agree with you to a point, but it’s not a shortcut it’s a tool. How a mother trained her pups ? sure feels good also. I wouldn't put one on my lab but my GSD or my Golden are so stubborn they need it. Almost all trainer use one at first, he did start slow with it, it’s a 4 steps increment to get her used to it, it wasn’t anything like yanking on it until she listens but even then she got the messages very quick, after one session you can hold the leash with one finger and she knows and respect the length of the leash. You put it for the training sessions only not 27/4.

 

[1 Old Man]

Our dog is only leashed when we take her off property to somewhere like Home Depot.
Use a slip collar and she'd need multiple correction (to stop pulling), use a prong collar
and she controls the pressure (lease length stays the same; pull hard feel prongs, walk
calmly no prongs). Walk in a heel position. I never pull the lease.
Amazing how quickly she learned.

 

[Rockbadchild]

Our dog is only leashed when we take her off property to somewhere like Home Depot.
Use a slip collar and she'd need multiple correction (to stop pulling), use a prong collar
and she controls the pressure (lease length stays the same; pull hard feel prongs, walk
calmly no prongs). Walk in a heel position. I never pull the lease.
Amazing how quickly she learned.

I hear ya, Same here with a normals clip on collar I have to giver her 3 haymaker for her to stop pulling (while walking you just stop and brace yourself for her to walk into it) with a prong it’s 1 pull (quick gentle jab) and it’s done for the night…. the goal is no to use it for both parties but it’s their choice.

 

[Rockbadchild]

We got trained with the shock collar/E collar, the technique is pretty interesting, it consist of finding the lowest level that she responds to, for her it’s 7 or 8 and zapping her before the command is verbalized and as soon as she responds to the command you stop. That to get her used associate it with you. We will moved from there in a week or so once she gets good at it … to the command and a shock is she doesn’t execute.

 

[1 Old Man]

We got trained with the shock collar/E collar, the technique is pretty interesting, it consist of finding the lowest level that she responds to, for her it’s 7 or 8 and zapping her before the command is verbalized and as soon as she responds to the command you stop. That to get her used associate it with you. We will moved from there in a week or so once she gets good at it … to the command and a shock is she doesn’t execute.

I have a E-collar. Current dog is the only dog I've ever used one on. I used it a couple of times. But found
out that the vibrate mode is all she needs to get her attention. I don't use it for training. I only put it on her
when she's going to be off property as a "back up" to having her on leash, if needed (leash breaks, she bolts after someone/something and I accidentally drop the leash etc).
Check and see if your dog will respond to the vibrate mode. Good luck.

 

[Rockbadchild]

I have a E-collar. Current dog is the only dog I've ever used one on. I used it a couple of times. But found
out that the vibrate mode is all she needs to get her attention. I don't use it for training. I only put it on her
when she's going to be off property as a "back up" to having her on leash, if needed (leash breaks, she bolts after someone/something and I accidentally drop the leash etc).
Check and see if your dog will respond to the vibrate mode. Good luck.

i am sure she would, but we are fallowing the training certification formats we payed for

 

[1 Old Man]

i am sure she would, but we are fallowing the training certification formats we payed for

Oh, ok. Got it. Let us know how it all works out. Interesting.

 

[Rockbadchild]

Oh, ok. Got it. Let us know how it all works out. Interesting.

We already have seen remarkable result and it’s only been a few weeks of training and two session with the trainer. But I means everything that has been said here is applied just with a few tools and a good structure while being showed how to. Now when we send her to bed she stay until the break command is given, she is very quick on the sit and lay down. She no longer pull on the leash at all. It calm her down and gave get clear boundaries.

 

[CalG]

I agree with you to a point, but it’s not a shortcut it’s a tool. How a mother trained her pups ? sure feels good also. I wouldn't put one on my lab but my GSD or my Golden are so stubborn they need it. Almost all trainer use one at first, he did start slow with it, it’s a 4 steps increment to get her used to it, it wasn’t anything like yanking on it until she listens but even then she got the messages very quick, after one session you can hold the leash with one finger and she knows and respect the length of the leash. You put it for the training sessions only not 27/4.

I can't say I have any experience with prong collars, so will stay out.
Seems like an extension of a "choke collar". clip the leash to one ring, and it's just a chain. Clipped to the the other ring, and constriction comes along with any tension on the leash. I don't like chain collars , as accidents do happen.

One thing I do know.... The dogs are not dumb! They know what is hanging around their necks. Call it feel, weight, or smell, they behave differently when under threat of pain.

Call it two ideologies of training.
Aversion and punishment vs enticement and reward.

For most of us, there is need for both. I'm heavily inclined towards the latter however.

The aversion/punishment can give rapid results and may be required for an indifferent dog.

 

[geteh]

We enrolled our GSD into an obedience 101 course at the local pet store.

The other pup was dumb as a brick hound pup.

Our GSD used to get mad at the hound when it wouldn't listen or had trouble understanding the command

Anyway, my wife and I alternated tskimg her to the class depending on our schedules.

I ended up taking Gypsy for the finals.

One of the final tests was to hook her too a leash that would go the lengh of the store. Trainer had her on one side of the store and I had to get gypsy to come to me without getting sidetracked.


We had quite a few spectators and the recall was three times back and forth across the store.

On the last recall gypsy came tearing down the aisles to me.

Just before she got to me, I gave her the command to sit.

She immediately sat sliding the last couple feet up to me.
dana pani by umera ahmed
I then said "Give me some paw!!!!"

Which she through her paw up for a high 5

I then heard about 50 "Ahhs..... that's do cute!!!!"

Great idea for a thread! Having a dedicated space for training and behavior advice will help. I’ve had success with "The Art of Raising a Puppy" by the Monks of New Skete and "Don't Shoot the Dog" by Karen Pryor for general training. For specific issues, consistency and positive reinforcement have always worked best for me. Looking forward to hearing others' experiences and recommendations!

 

[Rockbadchild]

I can't say I have any experience with prong collars, so will stay out.
Seems like an extension of a "choke collar". clip the leash to one ring, and it's just a chain. Clipped to the the other ring, and constriction comes along with any tension on the leash. I don't like chain collars , as accidents do happen.

One thing I do know.... The dogs are not dumb! They know what is hanging around their necks. Call it feel, weight, or smell, they behave differently when under threat of pain.

Call it two ideologies of training.
Aversion and punishment vs enticement and reward.

For most of us, there is need for both. I'm heavily inclined towards the latter however.

The aversion/punishment can give rapid results and may be required for an indifferent dog.

I was against the idea of using one as it seem over board, but I also have seen dogs completely ignoring (being desensitized) to a slip collars (choke collar) and constantly self suffocating on it. The Prong collar will pinch even if using both rings but if you use both rings it's a uniform tension around the neck if using only one ring it offer more tension and will pinch to simulate a bite.

When going in the program, they tell you what brand to buy for both electric collar and prong collar to ensure proper quality.

The program makes you move away from the prong collar as soon as the dog is proficient on it, then move to a e collar and finally going back to a standard collar.

I think any training needs both pressure or correction and reward, the level of correction simply need to be adjusted accordingly to the animal temperaments. The structure of the program is heavily dependent on reward espicially at first, then moving towards a mix of punishment and reward to punishment and praising. (Replacing a treat with play or petting)

One thing I also like about the program is the language and its structure.

Chip = reward (instead of a clicker but same thing)
Good = praising
Ha ha = warning or pressure
No = Correction