Do I really need a 10k gvw?

[Robbie Hegwood]

Ya'll are absoultely correct. The more experts you ask the more different the answers get. About what Markct said, that is the first time I have ever heard the 10k rule, ever. I've been driving straight trucks with a class B CDL for some 15 years and the rules and regulations being discussed are getting weird.I'm not debating what he was told as I'm sure it is correct but from what set of laws. So according to the "new" rules 90% of us are "illegal". I tried my best to be complient when I began my business by calling GDOT and they said rules apply to truck only over 25,999lbs. and or air brakes. I did register and recieve a dot number and the tag office even issued my truck a tag that even says 26,000 lbs on it with no mention of anything else, CDL, DOT number etc. I believe 99% of us on TBN try to be complient but to what and whoes shandards. I do have a CDL but it's the principle of it. So again according to the new rules a individual pulling a monster RV trailer over 10k should be considered illegal, and the guy driving a diesel pusher with air brakes over 25,999 lbs is illegal aslo???????? I do understand somewhat where they are going for around here guys pulling bobcats on landscape trailer with the tires rubbing from bowed out so much is an epidemic. I spent alot of money on my truck and trailer to handle safely what I pull. I'd buy the larger trailer and truck on. The tag office didn't ask anything about my trailer or rating of it. I intiated the questions to try to be "compliant". If they are going to enforce these rules they will have to have us stop at weight stations and boy will that open a can of worms!!! Robbie still confused in Georgia

 

[GreatWhitehunter]

I have a landscape trailer with a 2990 gvw and had the same inspection when I registered it. In other state (MA for one) if the trailer has a 5k gvw but you will never use more than 2500lbs you simply register at 2500. I know many of you (in CT) know the CT rules from the DMV. Has anyone actually been pulled over and fined for this issue? I wonder what enforcement is taking place. It seems to me brfore the state can go on a witch hunt with this they'd have to grandfather tons of folk already on the road.Also where is a good place I could weigh my truck?

Thanks
Matt T.

 

[LarryRB]

This issue has come up a hundred times here in the last four or five years, It comes down to the same old thing over and over,,, In the DOT rule book, the overall weight combination is 26000, for a required CDL. Most here can agree that this is the way it is.,If you read the trailer requirements closely, there is a sentence or two, ( and I don't have the patience to look it up again), that vaguely points to OR PULLING A TRAILER 10,000 lbs or more, needs a CDL B. It is these two sentences or short paragraph, I forget now,, that is the concern,, One DOT cop interprets this as any trailer over 10g's needs a cdl. Most DOT cops look at any combination totalling over 26,000 needs a cdl and this, is the correct way... Why there is that sentence or short paragraph that alludes to a single trailer with 10 g's or more, is what this argument really comes down to. In Ct, it seems most DOT cops read this sentence and believe/interpret a single trailer 10 g's or more need the license...

 

[BarryinMN]

Initial trailer purchase my dealer automatically registered the trailer at 9990, Did not notice it until I looked at the plate sometime later.

Second & subsequent years I went to the 12K.

With a 3/4 PU you are too small, don't have to worry about busting 26K GCVW for registration & federal rules.

IF under 26K AND Commercial Motor Carrier AND over 10K trailer the federal CDL applies. PER FMCSA dated 4/06 - all 672 pages of it!

So the question is are you driving or hauling somebody elses goods for compensation with that 12K trailer?

Now take that federal answer & call your State commercial inspection office for the State answer.

I'd hate to see you short yourself on the trailer as you'll add equipment in future years.

Any special reason for a pintle? Ball hitches are rated legal up to 14K & have much less slop.

 

[thcri]

We have a 12k trailer here at work. We got picked up with it empty, and our driver got a ticket because our driver did not have the CDL. There is nothing on the trailer, makes no difference the trailer has to have a driver with a CDL or Class A. We even had it licensed for 10K even though it was a 12k trailer. A year later we got picked up again, no driver with a CDL or Class A. Told the officer it is only licensed for a 10k. Was told we don't have the right to downgrade a vehicle or trailer, only the manufacture can. So we sand blasted all of the markings off the trailer and the dealer that sold it to us put the 10K decals on it. Will we get picked up again, don't know.

murph

 

[BarryinMN]

We have a 12k trailer here at work. We got picked up with it empty, and our driver got a ticket because our driver did not have the CDL. There is nothing on the trailer, makes no difference the trailer has to have a driver with a CDL or Class A. We even had it licensed for 10K even though it was a 12k trailer. A year later we got picked up again, no driver with a CDL or Class A. Told the officer it is only licensed for a 10k. Was told we don't have the right to downgrade a vehicle or trailer, only the manufacture can. So we sand blasted all of the markings off the trailer and the dealer that sold it to us put the 10K decals on it. Will we get picked up again, don't know.

murph

You were lucky - I've heard of commercial Landscapers getting red tagged locked out. They had to scrounge up a CDL driver ASAP to avoid a tow & impound down in the Twin Cities area.

Did you try & register as an RV?

 

[Michael_E_Tx]

I have a 12K 20' trailer, titled and licensed as a 10k, derated by the manufacturer. I bought the trailer in Ca., where it seemed to be a big deal to not get caught with a 12K trailer and no CDL. No experience with trouble with the law. The dealer I bought the trailer from was quite accustomed to the derating practice.

I didn't really object very much, since I mostly bought the 12K version for the safety margin, but the fact remains I would probably be hosed if I actually hauled enough weight to reach the 12K capacity.

The irony to me is that I live in Texas now. Unless I register the trailer with commercial plates, I don't even retain the good title I brought from California.
I dealt with this by registering for commercial plates for one year so I would still have a valid title. My trailer now has farm plates, and the only reference to gvw is the manufacturer's decal.

Mike

 

[DANOCHEESE]

Not to beat this to death Ok I will.

I have a need to haul a tractor and a few attachments a few times a year. 10,002 Lbs on trailer, Live in Minnesota. Will I need a CDL. DO I get to take my little old f350 to take the test. Also I will be crossing state lines. This is for my own use. No money being made. Property to property.

OR do I just get an enclosed trailer and put a surf board on the roof and call it an RV. Or get a trailer and derate the stickers to 9,999 kind of like they used to do with the outboard motors 9.9 horse so you could use them on lakes with an under 10 horse limit.

 

[DANOCHEESE]

I just found this. I'm legal as a class D is a standard DL here in MN.
"The holder of a Class D
license may also tow vehicles if the combination of
vehicles has a gross weight of 26,000 pounds or less".

http://www.dps.state.mn.us/patrol/comveh/pdf/driver.pdf

 

[LarryRB]

Here is just one small example of why CT DOT misreaeds overall combination under 26K..



DMV Search:

Department of
Motor Vehicles
Within Hartford Area
and Outside Connecticut
860-263-5700

Elsewhere in Connecticut
800-842-8222


Class 1 and Class 2 Vehicles

1 - Any motor vehicle except a commercial motor vehicle.

Examples: Hook & ladder fire truck, tractor-trailer with a farm registration.

2 - Any motor vehicle except a commercial motor vehicle, an articulated vehicle or combination of motor vehicle and trailer where the gross weight of the trailer is more than 10,000 pounds.

Examples: Passenger cars, pick-up trucks, trucks under 26,000 lbs., any recreation vehicle regardless of weight.

 

[BarryinMN]

Not to beat this to death Ok I will.

I have a need to haul a tractor and a few attachments a few times a year. 10,002 Lbs on trailer, Live in Minnesota. Will I need a CDL. DO I get to take my little old f350 to take the test. Also I will be crossing state lines. This is for my own use. No money being made. Property to property.

OR do I just get an enclosed trailer and put a surf board on the roof and call it an RV. Or get a trailer and derate the stickers to 9,999 kind of like they used to do with the outboard motors 9.9 horse so you could use them on lakes with an under 10 horse limit.

He He He

I think you should nail an outhouse on that trailer & deduct the interest expense as a second home

 

[GreatWhitehunter]

Barry, I would only haul for myself I'm just an average tractor nut. I think I'll talk to a few local dealers and get there take. Larry you seem to have pulled the facts out of the rule book for me and I appreciate it. The matter for me is someday I may want a large tractor or I'll need to rent a something and I want to have a trailer with a saftey factor. I think the 10k would be fine but there really isn't much difference in price so I feel it makes more sense to get the 12k. I phoned the DMV yesterday to try to get a handle on this. It was a huge waste of time and I still got no clear answer.

Matt T.

 

[BarryinMN]

Here is just one small example of why CT DOT misreaeds overall combination under 26K..

Congratulations you've been re-gifted.

The MN State Patrol 2-3 years ago had similar bureaucratic gibberish posted on its web site. Lasted until a trooper pulled over somebody with the Governors home # on speed dial.

Was good business for the MD doing DOT medical certs. 2 years ago he was in a basement office in an older building. This year he is in a brand new building and takes an entire upper floor.

 

[DavesTractor]

For the California readers, if you are pulling a trailer rated at over 10000#, you need a CDL. There are some farm exceptions and RV exceptions that allow more weight. If your pickup, like my 2006 Dodge dually, is rated at over 11,500 GVWR, then you are not a "pickup" as defined by California and you are technically required to pull through the scales, even without a trailer, and even if you have the factory pickup bed on it still. In speaking with the commercial enforcement guys, they are nailing guys for no CDL, but they really seem to prefer that we stay out of the scales. Also, if you are doing this commercially and the "pickup" is over 11500 and your trailer is over 10000, you are subject to terminal inspections, drug testing, MCP, CA, etc. Log books, daily inspections, and all of that apply also.

Oddly, when we called around about this, we got a lot of vague responses. It seems most of the highway patrol guys concern themselves with more important things that this, but when you get to the guys that really know this stuff, the law is clear.

Yes, you can take your CDL driving test with your F250 with a 12K trailer. If you are required to have a CDL to drive it, then it works for the test. Your CDL will be restricted to no air brakes, etc., but it will be a CDL.

Clearly these rules are enforced differently in other states, so what holds true here doesn't apply across the board.

In our case, since we have to comply with the same rules with our "pickup" as would with a real truck, my next rig will be something along the lines of an FL60. Such fun...too much government regulation.

I think I'd suggest to most people to buy a pickup rated at 11,500 or less and a trailer built for 12,000 but rated at 9990. That gives a nice safety margin if it is loaded to the full 9990.

One last bit of trivia and I must get back to work. If I am not overweight on any tire or on any axle, there is nothing that requires that I stay uder Dodge's recommended gross combined weight rating. That is a Dodge thing, not a CHP thing. I can have 20k on the trailers axles, about 9500 (from memory) on my rear pickup duals and about 5000 (again from memory) on my front axle. If I do not exceed any of these, I am legal for weight. Not that it would be smart, but you can get to about 34,500 gross combined (if loaded properly) and not be "overloaded". Maybe that is why they want a CDL.

 

[DANOCHEESE]

He He He

I think you should nail an outhouse on that trailer & deduct the interest expense as a second home

Oh now you want me to figure out the IRS rules. I'm in enough trouble with three letter agencies now.