Do computes and high-end electronics belong in tractors?

[Mikeeemo]

The OP was asking about electronics and tractors, somehow cars and trucks came into the mix. As a programmer, I think everything has a place. I love the electronics in my cars and trucks. I get better power and mileage in the same size package.

I have two tractors, a 50 year old MF TO-35 and a 5 year old Kubota L4400.

The only electronics on the Kubota is the operator presence control. Makes good sense, maybe I will be spared if I somehow make it out of the seat.

The rest of the machine is mechanical. I could have purchased a Grand L model and gotten full electronics. For me, it did not make sense, I did not want to deal with or pay for these features.

This question can be answered simply, "it is all in what you want".

I can and do all of the repairs to my machines. The Kubota has not been back to the dealer, ever. I traded electronics for a larger engine and the ability to repair it myself.

I do not think any of us can discount the value of electronics, they have transformed the tractor, made it more productive.

Just seems a little overdone when installed on a small, under 50hp, machine.

This stuff is what makes life good, we can get what we want, then debate it.

Just like we do with Gear vs HST...


LOL, by the way, I'm a gear guy...

Thanks for keeping it light.

 

[whodat526]

1-These companies are not putting more electronics on there for ***** and giggles. If they actually thought that people preferred a manual cable shutoff or analog gauges, they would certainly put them on there. Especially if it would reduce downtime, costs and increase customer satisfaction.


2-Again, when people talk about being able to fix it themselves... How many of you can rebuild an injector pump? Or, even troubleshoot one? It's a straw man argument. You can still do mechanical repairs on these tractors, just like you can on the 50 year old ones. And, just like those, if the fuel system has issues, you likely can't fix it yourself beyond part swapping, just like the electronics. And, either one can leave the machine sitting in the field, unable to move.

3-The other side is you can learn about the electronics. Buy a shop manual, learn to use a DVOM and get to troubleshooting. They aren't as complex as you think. Sure, it would be great to have the factory software to plug in for diagnostics, but I am sure there is a way to get trouble codes without it.

4-Finally, as someone else pointed out, plugging in a computer doesn't tell you what is wrong, it simply tells you what input or output is out of specification. It is up to you to figure out why. Rarely is the item mentioned in the code the item that is actually the problem, it is a symptom. Just like on older tractors, if there is black smoke puking out the exhaust, that points you to where you need to start looking, not to exactly what is wrong. You still have to understand what is happening to diagnose it.

1-first off i like a tractor with a manual kill and lift pump because if the wiring harness it burned up or the fuse box shorted out or the battery dead i can go out there and pull start it and get whatever i was needing to do done
and gauges with numbers not colors i dont care if its in the green blue pink or tan i wont to see how hot it is runing and how much oil pressure

2- i happen to be able to trouble shoot what is wrong with a tractor and have tore down many injections pumps to clean and reseal them i have rebuilt injectors i can rebuilt a motor trans. and diff. have done many of them along with ps pumps water pumps

3-it is quite hard to get the factory software and tools that u need to work on most of the newer stuff i have some tools in my shop from when my dad was a nh dealer for putting a clutch in a tn model tractor which makes it a breeze with out them it can get to be a pain and dont believe what the service manual as wrote in them i have seen them leave whole steps out by acciedent (found this out on a tv140 that would shift and kept doing what the book said and no go called the tech dept. and they fax a nother step that got left out)

4- a computer will tell what is wrong but it wont tell u what cause that part to break but gives u a area of where to start looking because just because u replace the part the com. says is broke i have found will most likely not fix the problem

 

[wvpolekat]

1-first off i like a tractor with a manual kill and lift pump because if the wiring harness it burned up or the fuse box shorted out or the battery dead i can go out there and pull start it and get whatever i was needing to do done
and gauges with numbers not colors i dont care if its in the green blue pink or tan i wont to see how hot it is runing and how much oil pressure

2- i happen to be able to trouble shoot what is wrong with a tractor and have tore down many injections pumps to clean and reseal them i have rebuilt injectors i can rebuilt a motor trans. and diff. have done many of them along with ps pumps water pumps

3-it is quite hard to get the factory software and tools that u need to work on most of the newer stuff i have some tools in my shop from when my dad was a nh dealer for putting a clutch in a tn model tractor which makes it a breeze with out them it can get to be a pain and dont believe what the service manual as wrote in them i have seen them leave whole steps out by acciedent (found this out on a tv140 that would shift and kept doing what the book said and no go called the tech dept. and they fax a nother step that got left out)

4- a computer will tell what is wrong but it wont tell u what cause that part to break but gives u a area of where to start looking because just because u replace the part the com. says is broke i have found will most likely not fix the problem

1- Obviously, you are in the minority because if demand was there, they would do it if they could and still meet emissions requirements. If enough customers wanted analog gauges, I promise you, they would offer them. They want to sell machines, if 90% of customers wanted a pink racing stripe, it would be on the option list. Nothing stopping you from adding whatever analog gauges you would like though.

2- Again, you are in the minority. Most people would rather not take an injection pump apart. At least not if they ever intended to put it back on.

3- Not that hard to get, just takes money. Bad manuals with missing information would hinder you regardless of electronics. Not a good example. That would be like the manual showing you incorrect timing marks or wrong valve clearances.

4- Exact same thing I said.

 

[whodat526]

1- Obviously, you are in the minority because if demand was there, they would do it if they could and still meet emissions requirements. If enough customers wanted analog gauges, I promise you, they would offer them. They want to sell machines, if 90% of customers wanted a pink racing stripe, it would be on the option list. Nothing stopping you from adding whatever analog gauges you would like though.

2- Again, you are in the minority. Most people would rather not take an injection pump apart. At least not if they ever intended to put it back on.

3- Not that hard to get, just takes money. Bad manuals with missing information would hinder you regardless of electronics. Not a good example. That would be like the manual showing you incorrect timing marks or wrong valve clearances.

4- Exact same thing I said.

i wasn't talking about manuals on just electronics on everything and the manual i was talking about was a nh service manual for a tv140 made for the nh dealers

and i wont pink racing stripes and pink neon lights under neath

but yes some stuff is strickly for dealers that way when something breaks u must bring it to the dealer

 

[arsenix2001]

Im a gadget guy, its what sold me on the grand l kubota vs the standard... I like having the electronic control of the hst and the intellipanel is great... Seeing your speed in xx.x mph is great and you can even monitor pto rpm, makes spreading seed and fertilizer alot easier and constant. Heck if i had the money id buy a jd 6xxx premium just to play with the computer. Unlimited posibilities of adjustment. Jd's tmc, on contstruction equipment is facinating, it will even alow you to set a preset bucket lift point so you can load trucks faster.

 

[jake98]

Back before electronics in cars, you could get a 428SCJ in a mustang that would run 14.0 in the quarter and get 8 mpg. Today you can get a 6 cylinder mustang that runs 13.5 in the quarter and gets 30 mpg.

I think electronics might have something to do with it....

Back in the 70's I could run the quarter mile in 56 seconds. Now, with all the electronics I have to check, I can't get out the door in 56 minutes.

When my Kioti's injector pump went, the electronics just sat there dumbfounded while the thing over-reved. Luckily they left one manual safety device, the fuel shut-off.

 

[slowzuki]

I have to say after peering into the hydraulic circuits of a ferguson type 3 point hitch with draft control, I'm glad to see the little bosch computer, 1 double solenoid valve, 1 position sensor, one draft sensor, 2 external lift rams on my MF 5455. It is dead simple to diagnose vs the old system with little springs and orifices all over.

The solenoid valve even has external rubber buttons so if it all goes teats up, you can manually raise or lower the hitch. The one time I had a connector come loose (4000 hours on the tractor), the computer flashed out what sensor was the problem and I had it fixed in an hour.

I must say though, I like my little Kubota 5030 HSTC, only computer is in the dash display, and the tractor can run fine without it. I imagine diagnosing a problem in the hydrostatic transmission is a nightmare of valves etc though vs plug into the computer on my MF.

 

[Ford tractor]

Back in the 70's I could run the quarter mile in 56 seconds. Now, with all the electronics I have to check, I can't get out the door in 56 minutes.

Funny.

I imagine that in the 1930's & 40's they had similar arguments about electric starters vs hand crank. Progress marches on and with it comes higher reliability, performance and yes satisfaction with the product. Not to say that there are not stumbling blocks in the way, just look at late '70's and early '80's GM X-cars!