Disappointed in my Deere for the first time.

[shoppintractors]

<font color="blue">I'm pretty sure the rear housings of both of my CUTs are iron..... </font>

hmmmm.... You might want to double check.

Don

 

[Kyle_in_Tex]

Gary, Sorry about your problem.

I too looked online at jd parts and axle housings were priced at some $275 or so..

PS. A few months ago, some poor fellow posted pic's of his Kubota where the whole cast iron top link had busted off the rear "pumpkin" exposing those pretty spiral bevel gears inside...
poop happens.

 

[Bob_Skurka]

Don . . .
Well I'm at work and both tractors are at home. But I know the Kubota is iron, and given how heavy the NH is, I'm pretty darn sure those are iron. Pretty much everything else is iron on the NH tractors so I would find it very odd if the the rear end was not. NH is not a ladder frame tractor, it is built very similar to the old AG tractors with the iron housings holding everything together. I think a lot of people don't understand how heavy the NH tractors are, that is one reason why I didn't load the tires on mine. I know several comments have come from folks commenting on how light they are, but the little NH tractors are within a few hundred pounds of the little Korean tractors in terms of weight. And for that matter the little NH is within a few hundred pounds of my larger Kubota.

Now again, I suppose I might be wrong and the NH might be a lightweight alloy, but I don't really have the desire to drive all the way home to double check.


<font color="red"> A few months ago, some poor fellow posted pic's of his Kubota where the whole cast iron top link had busted off the rear "pumpkin" exposing those pretty spiral bevel gears inside...
poop happens. </font>

Kyle, I remember reading that. I'm not sure if he was boxblading in reverse and hitting things, or if someone else had done that? There was some question of abuse and some question of possible warrenty coverage. It was a heck of a mess, the gears were all visible and in tact, but the housing was simply cracked right off. And I guess further proof that iron can break just like aluminum.

 

[slowrev]

Was not targeting you Bob, Just had your post up last. Sorry for any misunderstanding. /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif Would have quoted you and named you if picking on you /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Ben

 

[Bob_Skurka]

<font color="green"> Was not targeting you Bob, Just had your post up last. Sorry for any misunderstanding. Would have quoted you and named you if picking on you

Ben </font>

Well I didn't take any offence, but I did think you were responding to me. No harm, no foul.

 

[RobS]

The guy with the hole in his Kubota was running a logging winch if I recall.

Seems there was another guy with a broken Deere axle housing in the past year. I'll try a search.

And Gary, very sad to hear of your tractor troubles. I know exactly how it feels when a prized tool bites the dust /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[RobS]

Here's a fairly recent one...

MY JD 4400 axle housing

Here's the one I remembered...

4300 repeatedly breaks turnbuckle

Again Gary, best to you in your solution /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Hey BTW, if you want to take this on yourself I'd be happy to help make it a TBN-Midwest chapter get-together. Nothing like a good project to rally around /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[QueBota]

Here is the link to the Kubota with the cracked case. Ouch!!!

Kubota L4610 Cracked Case

Dave

 

[keeney]

The problem with attempting to repair an aluminum part by welding it is not the welding, its the heat-treating. Unless you have an annealing oven, you are unlikely to be able to restore the welded area to its originally tempered hardness.

With a heat-treated structural aluminum like 6061-T6, you might have 30,000 psi strength. Once you weld it, the weld itself and the area around it will revert to the O state - unhardened. Very soft. Like maybe 7,000 psi strength.

For example, people who build bicycle frames out of aluminum typically have to heat-treat the whole frame after it is welded to make it strong enough.

Thats also the reason why aircraft skins are rivited together and not welded.

I am not so sure about cast aluminum, but I assume it can be heat treated after casting as well and that something like a housing that the 3-point arms mount to would be a heat-treated part.

So, if the part is designed to rely on the strength of being heat-treated and you do weld it, it may hold the oil in, but the weld is likely to be so soft that you will easily break it again.

- Rick

 

[Gary_in_Indiana]

Well, today brought me pieces of news both good and bad. /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

I took the tractor to a weld/machining shop recommended to me and, after expressing his shock and horror that Deere would use this material for this purpose by the owner (who, as it turns out, has some antique tractors) that he could weld it but wouldn't want to because he didn't believe it would hold under the strain. Additionally, he said he wasn't certain he could do it on the tractor. That was the bad news.

The good news from him was that he believes he can fabricate something that will be stronger and utilize the two 16mm bolts on either side of the housing. The bad news is that, for him, this only qualifies as a "side job" and gets attention only after 6 PM when his regular clientele isn't likely to need him for some emergency. Worse than that, his "side job" board is full for the next three weeks. Nonetheless, I gave him my number and told him to get hold of me when he was able to get it in.

I got back to my office and had a message from my Deere shop manager and returned his call. He apologized for an error he made yesterday when we spoke. It turns out that the broken lobe is on a smaller, separate piece (just as was posted here last night) called the "LH axle housing" and is $245 (the RH version is $265, for whatever reason, as I recall). Also, instead of three days labor, it's more like three or four hours. That still eats up the better part of a five hundred dollar bill but it's way better than the three grand I thought I was looking at yesterday. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

I'd barely hung up from talking with him when my buddy from Caterpillar called to ask what the weld/machine shop had told me. After we discussed that and I told him about the corrected Deere pricing he volunteered, "Well, just get that now and I can put it on for you." /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

As you can well imagine, I put him on hold and immediately called the Deere store back and got it ordered just under their stock parts cutoff at 4PM so it'll be there in a week with no added freight charge. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif Interestingly, this part is a different part number than the OEM piece it replaces. I can't help but wonder if it's improved or just a different supplier. I'll know next week and post what I find.

I'm meeting my buddy from Cat later today and showing him the tractor (still on my trailer) and giving him my shop manual so he can see what all is involved before the part arrives. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Quite a roller coaster ride on this deal, to say the least. The bottom line is that I'll probably be back up and running 100% with about $400 spent instead of seven or eight times that as I initially feared. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

Even with that, I'm still not thrilled with Deere on this. /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif

 

[eee]

<font color="green"> </font><font color="blue" class="small">( I can't help but wonder if it's improved or just a different supplier. I'll know next week and post what I find. )</font> </font>

Read my 1st post.. it is an improved piece /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif .The hole where the lower 3pt arm fastens to has more material around the hole and where the rollbar bolts on to the housing is grooved to accept the rollbar bolts.

 

[ronjhall]

Gary
You may want to consider doing both axles at the same time if the newer ones are beefed up.

 

[To20Chris]

Bob & Rockyridge - My preference was for cast iron - if steel were used it would be in the form of a welded up or otherwise fabricated assembly. Does anyone make tractor axle housings that way? Naturally, no one wants a poorly done casting of any material. There seems to be a perception that aluminum castings are more ductile than iron ones? Maybe I'm misinterpreting. Anyway, they aren't. Depending on the alloy, aluminum may deform before it breaks, but that would be a permanent deformation, and I doubt that would be acceptable in a 3ph mount either. An appropriate iron alloy can have very good impact resistance, and I'll wager that cast aluminum would deform or break before a good cast iron would.

Neither metal is ever used in pure form for any practical structual item, they are always alloys. For a feature of a given size, a cast iron part will most always be stronger than a cast aluminum part. You can make the same feature bigger in aluminum to compensate, but why? And that was my question - I wonder why they choose that material?

 

[Gary_in_Indiana]

<font color="blue"> "You may want to consider doing both axles at the same time if the newer ones are beefed up." </font>

That's a good point and one that I probably should have considered.

Unfortunately, the timing of returning from seeing the welder, confirming the less expensive part with the Deere dealer and getting the call offering to install it and having to rush the call back to the dealer to get it on their stock parts order didn't allow much time for such consideration. All totaled this was less than fifteen minutes from the time I walked back into my office to hanging up from my second call to the Deere dealer getting the part ordered.

The bottom line is that at this point I guess I'll put the one on and hope for the best. I'm still very much considering having the heavier steel bracket fabricated which I could put on if either lobe breaks. For what it's worth, the Deere dealer did a search of their parts records and told me they'd never ordered one of these before so I'm guessing it's a rather unusual occurence. Lucky me, huh? /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

 

[eee]

They can have the other part overnight,while the tractor is torn down wait 24 hours for the other housing and then do it right and be done with it.

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( <font color="blue"> Deere dealer did a search of their parts records and told me they'd never ordered one of these before so I'm guessing it's a rather unusual occurence. </font> )</font>

I would say it is a fairly frequent occurence,the reason I say that is why else would John Deere make 2 design changes in the housing on the new ones versus the originals?

 

[Gary_in_Indiana]

<font color="blue"> "Read my 1st post.. it is an improved piece" </font> /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

I read and very much appreciated your post. If I didn't thank you for it earlier, please let me do so now. I only wrote what I did the way I did because at this point I don't know.

Actually, what you wrote is that the piece you got was improved over the one you replaced. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif Neither you nor I know which I have or which I'll get or whether or not each or either are the same as either the one you broke or the one with which it was replaced. If I'd had the part number of the one you ordered, THEN I could at least compare the two (not that it really matters much at this point).

I'm not saying the one I get won't be improved over what I broke (obviously, I hope it is). I'm only saying that we really don't know if it will be or not.

It's possible (though admittedly not necessarily likely) that before I bought this tractor (used) both the LH and RH parts had already been replaced and even if I get the same part you got it might, in fact, be the same part I already have in place.

Please know I'm not trying to give you a hard time here. I only wanted to explain why I wrote what I wrote in the way I did. In retrospect, I realize I could have noted that at the time and didn't. For that I apologiize. /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif

In any event, I hope you'll continue to read and contribute here on TBN. You certainly helped me here and I sincerely appreciate it. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[eee]

............

 

[JATO_RaT]

Gary, it looks like it may be working out OK, thats great. I'm curious, is it going to make you a little "gun shy" now? I thought about my experience and must admit that 95% of what I did was really in all fairness to the manufactuer, my fault. I thought in order to show folks what happened I would post some pictures of the broken part, the rock and the repair. I would of course do it in the Kubota forum, but I think that for any folks who might be concerned that this is is a situation they are likely to encounter, I would like to address those concerns and if anything, eliminate them. Best wishes in your repair, I'm glad it's working outt much better then anticipated.

 

[Gary_in_Indiana]

<font color="red"> (Deere dealer did a search of their parts records and told me they'd never ordered one of these before so I'm guessing it's a rather unusual occurrence.)</font>

<font color="blue">"I would say it is a fairly frequent occurrence. The reason I say that is why else would John Deere make 2 design changes in the housing on the new ones versus the originals?" </font>

Again, you make an excellent point. I just glanced through the service manual and saw that some of the work would be repeated from replacing one to replacing the other (like removing the ROPS, for example) if they were done at different times.

I'm going to ask my friend who's actually doing the work if he'd be OK with doing both while we've got it up in he air.

Do you happen to have the part number to or a picture of either or both of the pieces you ordered from Deere? I'd be curious to see if they're the same as what I get or if Deere has made any further changes. I've seen some replacement parts for trucks go through two or three incarnations over a short period of time while others stayed the same forever.

 

[cowboydoc]

I had a Massey Ferguson Super 90 that was built in the 60's and it had the same three point axle housing material. When it broke all I could do was find a used one to put on that cost $450 for a 40 year old part!!! That one couldn't be welded either.